Do any devs lurk in here?

Rhaegar86 wrote: 17 hours ago

vued wrote: 17 hours ago

I think it's a misconception that "developers" have any say in what thing to build and which bug to fix.

Shareholder tell the CEO "make money".
CEO tells directors "make money".
Directors tell product owners "make money".
Product owners shuff things tam hat they think will make money into the backlog.
Devs code what is in the backlog.


Back in the days, when games like D2R were created, it was different. The task was "make an awesome game" because this is what led to money. Now it's tweaking the wrong metrics for the sake of bein "data driven".

The current dev team should get credit for involving d2r intensive players / streamers. But unfortunately they missed that 99%+ of players are not like them. But at least they involved some players.

Be that as it may, the devs are 100% more accessible than any CEO or Director ever will be so that's the first line of defense. Once that is breached, there might be an off-chance that one of them is disgruntled or rogue enough to John Wayne some code in for us pee-ons

This is impossible, period. Not today, with code versioning and releases being strictly reviewed.
Let me quote a Reddit comment (about WoW, but it also fits here):

People seriously underestimate how these companies operate internally. (...) Suddenly every feature, class change, balance decision, item, dungeon tweak, talent interaction, visual asset, community message, and patch note goes through layers of approval. Legal, brand, production, design leadership, monetization, accessibility, PR, live ops, executives. Everyone gets a say. Everyone has risk concerns. Everyone wants it to “fit the product strategy.”

Schnorki wrote: 3 hours ago

vued wrote: 17 hours ago

[..] The current dev team should get credit for involving d2r intensive players / streamers. [..]

Hard disagree. The last thing any game dev/studio should ever do imo is let rando streamer bob dictate what a game should be like. At least if you ever want your game to actually be good. They are largely about as far from objective or representative of the general player base as a whole as you can get. "Good for streamer bob's clickbaiting" is very much not the same thing as "actually fun to play".

Plus with RotW they've already proven that they're just abysmal play testers.

This. Even those who play "professionally" (read: cannot find a real job) are bad as game designers. Quite the contrary, playing a lot may limit one’s vision to the only way one plays, ignoring the other playstyles. To be a good designer, one needs a degree or a lot of experience (in designing, not playing).

Schnorki wrote: 3 hours ago

vued wrote: 17 hours ago

[..] The current dev team should get credit for involving d2r intensive players / streamers. [..]

Hard disagree. The last thing any game dev/studio should ever do imo is let rando streamer bob dictate what a game should be like. At least if you ever want your game to actually be good. They are largely about as far from objective or representative of the general player base as a whole as you can get. "Good for streamer bob's clickbaiting" is very much not the same thing as "actually fun to play".

Plus with RotW they've already proven that they're just abysmal play testers.

I didn't say "get credit for letting streamer bob dictate", I said "involve".
And I agree, that they could have involved their users better and they could have used the input better.

My point is: If you want to make a good product, involve users. Better few than none. Here, Blizzard took a tiny step in the right direction. Yay!

With the rest of what you said, I fully agree. It's bad to only involve streamers. It's bad to just build what they request.

Rhaegar86 wrote: 17 hours ago

vued wrote: 17 hours ago

I think it's a misconception that "developers" have any say in what thing to build and which bug to fix.

Shareholder tell the CEO "make money".
CEO tells directors "make money".
Directors tell product owners "make money".
Product owners shuff things tam hat they think will make money into the backlog.
Devs code what is in the backlog.


Back in the days, when games like D2R were created, it was different. The task was "make an awesome game" because this is what led to money. Now it's tweaking the wrong metrics for the sake of bein "data driven".

The current dev team should get credit for involving d2r intensive players / streamers. But unfortunately they missed that 99%+ of players are not like them. But at least they involved some players.

Be that as it may, the devs are 100% more accessible than any CEO or Director ever will be so that's the first line of defense. Once that is breached, there might be an off-chance that one of them is disgruntled or rogue enough to John Wayne some code in for us pee-ons

You can try your approach.
But realistically, the money decides.

As a customer, your biggest lever is your buying behavior. By you consciously buying, not buying, timing your buying, and refunding products, you have the most influence.

The second strongest way is to leave feedback on ther store pages, since they, too, will have a direct imoact on the money that the company makes. For that reason, those are analysed, consolidated, and used to make future decisions about the product. Note that if you are just bashing, it could lead to the product being discontinued. So stay constructive to have a positive impact.

When a market analyst tells the management "our market analysis shows that users want X" and a dev shows up and says "but on a forum I read Y", what do you believe will happen?

Schnorki wrote: 3 hours ago

vued wrote: 17 hours ago

[..] The current dev team should get credit for involving d2r intensive players / streamers. [..]

Hard disagree. The last thing any game dev/studio should ever do imo is let rando streamer bob dictate what a game should be like. At least if you ever want your game to actually be good. They are largely about as far from objective or representative of the general player base as a whole as you can get. "Good for streamer bob's clickbaiting" is very much not the same thing as "actually fun to play".

Plus with RotW they've already proven that they're just abysmal play testers.

We never know, if Rotw would have been better without them. I guess not. You are a bit too negative in my opinion.

The dev team is missing a real diablo math guy who gets the numbers right and who has an idea whats about. The testers couldnt compensate that.

Bertram The Cursed wrote: 1 hour ago

We never know, if Rotw would have been better without them. I guess not. You are a bit too negative in my opinion.

The dev team is missing a real diablo math guy who gets the numbers right and who has an idea whats about. The testers couldnt compensate that.

Instead of players with too much free time, they should have hired some of the D2 modders. These guys make mods for the whole community (and have contact with it), so they have a better sense of the game balance. They also know the limitations of the engine, and know what to watch out for.