Trading etiquette

Hi there,

I recently made the experience that my belief we're in a protected trading space with decent traders was a bit naive.
In my particular case I bid on an item and there was no other bidder for a whole day. In the evening, when the (presumably) US seller went online he accepted my offer in the trade forum and then sent me a bnet request. It took me 15 minutes to reply to the request. In the meantime, "someone" must have waited for this and contacted the seller directly, then quickly performing the trade in private, bypassing any possible bidding. The trade then wasl also deleted quickly instead of being closed, so there must have been some intuition that what happened might not have been the most decent action.
I understand that there are two people involved for this to work out. But it is a valid way to avoid a bidder race.
As the reply on my relatively friendly message came quick, presumably formulated by an AI, I guess that is not the first time the particular non-bidder acted that way, so he or she will already have a track record here, I guess.
Would that then generally be an accepted behavior here, given that the trading rules explicitly state that the system is there to perform the trade as quickly as possible for the seller? I see the benefit of avoiding a bidding race after all, so I would then be motivated to also do this from now on, when I see the opportunity.

Also: are there any other "dark" techniques (dark for a naive soul like me) to improve your odds for a cheap trade that I should be aware of?

How do you know someone got in touch with the seller and negotiated a trade outside of this platform? Did the seller tell you this?

Either way, there's nothing stopping people from doing this and they're not required to hold the item for you. It sucks, but it is what it is.

Ive been through this before, i dont mind ppl snipping the item via dm bid n purchase as long as the seller stated so in his post and shouldnt done last minute.

I will be honest , ive dm some sellers to purchase the items that were posted for sale before, but all up to the seller whether he wants to sell to the highest bidder or who bin in his post or not.

I think as long as the seller doesnt agreed to sell and meet up with you then backed out and sell it to another person at the very last minute(literally within an hour of meet up or so), that would be bad mannered but not illegal…
In reality, as long as there isnt a scammed involve, all trading is fair game… just bad mannered tradders

Same goes for buyer, think about this. U agreed and bin on an item, then last minute u ret and said no longer needed or found a better deal… im sure the seller wouldnt like that either and would considered that to be ‘bad manner’…

In all, no scam was taken place, just ppl change their mind last minute due to greed or just dont want to follow through the deal…

D2Veteran wrote: 3 hours ago

How do you know someone got in touch with the seller and negotiated a trade outside of this platform? Did the seller tell you this?

Either way, there's nothing stopping people from doing this and they're not required to hold the item for you. It sucks, but it is what it is.

I know that, because that "someone" posted 3 minutes after the "accepted adding you" the would offer my offer+ (not explicitly stating any specific offer). And that "someone" also replied to my friendly notice in a way that directly suggests that he completed the trade.
Obviously the seller was also a tad stupid, because that specific constellation could have told him there was more in it for him...
Also I'm not angry because I didn't get an item cheap, I'm angry because it was an item that is not on trade every day and I had liked a fair chance at it.

d2rppa69 wrote: 3 hours ago

Ive been through this before, i dont mind ppl snipping the item via dm bid n purchase as long as the seller stated so in his post and shouldnt done last minute.

I will be honest , ive dm some sellers to purchase the items that were posted for sale before, but all up to the seller whether he wants to sell to the highest bidder or who bin in his post or not.

I think as long as the seller doesnt agreed to sell and meet up with you then backed out and sell it to another person at the very last minute(literally within an hour of meet up or so), that would be bad mannered but not illegal…
In reality, as long as there isnt a scammed involve, all trading is fair game… just bad mannered tradders

Same goes for buyer, think about this. U agreed and bin on an item, then last minute u ret and said no longer needed or found a better deal… im sure the seller wouldnt like that either and would considered that to be ‘bad manner’…

In all, no scam was taken place, just ppl change their mind last minute due to greed or just dont want to follow through the deal…

The seller already agreed to my offer and addet me on bnet.

I know that, because that "someone" posted 3 minutes after the "accepted adding you" the would offer my offer+ (not explicitly stating any specific offer).

Sounds like you got outbid by someone who had enough Wealth to muscle you out. It happens in any game with trading. They didn't really do anything wrong, they just flexed their Wealth and disrespected you with it. Shitty and annoying, but not really anything enforceable or scam-related.

TeleTabitha wrote: 3 hours ago

the seller was also a tad stupid, because that specific constellation could have told him there was more in it for him...

A bidding war might have gotten the seller more value for their item, the problem with this approach is that buyers are a fickle bunch. They lose interest quickly or find the item elsewhere and then you as the seller is left with no buyer. It's often better to just take a good offer when it comes rather than wait around for a bidding war to ensue.

I don't think he could have bid me out (given how he is selling cheap stuff), it's just there was no offer that I could have reacted on, he just dropped a line "<inser my offer>+".

TeleTabitha wrote: 3 hours ago

d2rppa69 wrote: 3 hours ago

Ive been through this before, i dont mind ppl snipping the item via dm bid n purchase as long as the seller stated so in his post and shouldnt done last minute.

I will be honest , ive dm some sellers to purchase the items that were posted for sale before, but all up to the seller whether he wants to sell to the highest bidder or who bin in his post or not.

I think as long as the seller doesnt agreed to sell and meet up with you then backed out and sell it to another person at the very last minute(literally within an hour of meet up or so), that would be bad mannered but not illegal…
In reality, as long as there isnt a scammed involve, all trading is fair game… just bad mannered tradders

Same goes for buyer, think about this. U agreed and bin on an item, then last minute u ret and said no longer needed or found a better deal… im sure the seller wouldnt like that either and would considered that to be ‘bad manner’…

In all, no scam was taken place, just ppl change their mind last minute due to greed or just dont want to follow through the deal…

The seller already agreed to my offer and addet me on bnet.

Did the seller said to meet up within an hour or so to trade or he just added you on bnet but without a time frame of meet up?

But yes, for me , adding someone to bnet is considered done deal and the trade should go through… but like i said, this would be ‘bad manner’ trading behavior on the seller end but its legal

At the end of the day, sellers want to get the most out of his item, vice versa. But yes, ‘bad manner’ that is all…

I say, just move on. If the seller continues to show this behavior, just dont trade with this person…

torshakle wrote: 2 hours ago

I know that, because that "someone" posted 3 minutes after the "accepted adding you" the would offer my offer+ (not explicitly stating any specific offer).

Sounds like you got outbid by someone who had enough Wealth to muscle you out. It happens in any game with trading. They didn't really do anything wrong, they just flexed their Wealth and disrespected you with it. Shitty and annoying, but not really anything enforceable or scam-related.

He's not upset he was outbid, he's upset it happened outside of the site where he didn't have an opportunity to make a counter offer.

d2rppa69 wrote: 2 hours ago

TeleTabitha wrote: 3 hours ago

d2rppa69 wrote: 3 hours ago

Ive been through this before, i dont mind ppl snipping the item via dm bid n purchase as long as the seller stated so in his post and shouldnt done last minute.

I will be honest , ive dm some sellers to purchase the items that were posted for sale before, but all up to the seller whether he wants to sell to the highest bidder or who bin in his post or not.

I think as long as the seller doesnt agreed to sell and meet up with you then backed out and sell it to another person at the very last minute(literally within an hour of meet up or so), that would be bad mannered but not illegal…
In reality, as long as there isnt a scammed involve, all trading is fair game… just bad mannered tradders

Same goes for buyer, think about this. U agreed and bin on an item, then last minute u ret and said no longer needed or found a better deal… im sure the seller wouldnt like that either and would considered that to be ‘bad manner’…

In all, no scam was taken place, just ppl change their mind last minute due to greed or just dont want to follow through the deal…

The seller already agreed to my offer and addet me on bnet.

Did the seller said to meet up within an hour or so to trade or he just added you on bnet but without a time frame of meet up?

But yes, for me , adding someone to bnet is considered done deal and the trade should go through… but like i said, this would be ‘bad manner’ trading behavior on the seller end but its legal

At the end of the day, sellers want to get the most out of his item, vice versa. But yes, ‘bad manner’ that is all…

I say, just move on. If the seller continues to show this behavior, just dont trade with this person…

He also added a reply in the trade additionally adding me on bnet. That alone would have made me not post additional offers at least for a few hours, respecting the original bidders bid and the trade was closed. So I'm actually blaming it on both in my naive little world.

I would block the seller and move on. For some reason blocking them doesn't remove their listings from view, though, this could be a bug.

Yeah trading is a cut throat business.

Now you know u can dm the seller n snipe the items for your future purchases and no one will blame you for it

For me it depends on the timeframe. I'm pretty busy some days and maybe can't hop on right when someone takes one of my trades, and multiple times I've had buyers fall through when I had to wait 12-24 hours to settle the agreed upon trade.

I don't really blame them for it, if they find a better deal then business is business, so to speak, and I understand that people can't or don't want to wait all day.

These experiences have led me to take the view that a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. If I have someone who wants to do a trade with me here and now for the agreed upon price, then that's going to take precedence over an agreement made on a trade listing here if I'm not able to get a response from that person.

I've held items for people for hours or days in the face of other offers only for that person (who responded to my trade on here) to then say that they got the same item elsewhere or can't or don't want to do the trade anymore.

I know that this is pretty different from your situation, as you got back to the seller within 15 minutes. But on the other hand, maybe the seller didn't know it was going to just be 15 minutes for you to respond. From their point of view, they might be sitting there and waiting for a totally unknown length of time (maybe hours, maybe days) only for you to say that you got what you wanted from someone else or already traded your item/rune, all the while they have another person ready to make the deal here and now.

So it goes both ways and may not necessarily be malicious or intentionally shady behavior. It still sucks and is very frustrating regardless.

To be clear, I think you're in the right in this case. I just wanted to share my experience and perspective.

Isn't the whole bidding process in a trading forum pointless then, if people come to that conclusion? I had my "bad" experience with eu<->australian trades as well, but to me it was just the other side of the coin.

TeleTabitha wrote: 2 hours ago

Isn't the whole bidding process in a trading forum pointless then, if people come to that conclusion?

To some extent yes. The bidding process can be useful for gauging what an item may be worth if the seller doesn't have a good idea. So it's more useful for sellers than it is for buyers because the seller determines when the bidding ends, unlike a traditional auction where there is a predetermined time limit where the highest bidder wins and is then entered into a legal contract to complete said transaction.

Yeah apparently in bidding forum etc isnt a contract perse like an actual buy/sell agreement contract , etc otherwise everyone who backs out would have been sued left and right for breach of contract

Especially when no actual money value is involved, hard to enforce or cannot be enforced…

I wanted to sell charm here for 30

Jah, someone dmed me on a different site, offered 50

Jah, i cancelled the trade here.

You wouldn't? You seriously would give up the better trade?

There is no "etiquette" like you expect it to be

Next time do a smart contract on a blockchain if you want to be certain xD

Alright guys, anyways, looking forward to talking to all of you in private soon

louner wrote: 2 hours ago

I wanted to sell charm here for 30

Jah, someone dmed me on a different site, offered 50

Jah, i cancelled the trade here.

You wouldn't? You seriously would give up the better trade?

There is no "etiquette" like you expect it to be

Next time do a smart contract on a blockchain if you want to be certain xD

That buyer could have also posted his 50

Jah offer here. You crossposted the item to have two bidder groups that know nothing of each other? I wonder why auction houses don't do that...