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Trading etiquette

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d2rppa69 wrote: 2 hours ago
But yes, for me , adding someone to bnet is considered done deal and the trade should go through…

I say, just move on. If the seller continues to show this behavior, just dont trade with this person…
The amount of times I've had a buyer offer a price, I accept, they add me on, we are both online, we message saying we are both ready, I make a game, give them the info, they say 'on their way', and then proof ghost town, is not a small amount. Then 10 minutes later I get a 'sry mate, got it else where'.

These people just get squelched.

Will buy any 3 minor keys for an
Ist - message me.
Will accept statues and keys instead of rune payments for my trades.
My free items and torches are for players who play on xbox only
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D2Veteran wrote: 2 hours ago
TeleTabitha wrote: 3 hours ago
the seller was also a tad stupid, because that specific constellation could have told him there was more in it for him...
A bidding war might have gotten the seller more value for their item, the problem with this approach is that buyers are a fickle bunch. They lose interest quickly or find the item elsewhere and then you as the seller is left with no buyer. It's often better to just take a good offer when it comes rather than wait around for a bidding war to ensue.
Knappogue wrote: 2 hours ago
d2rppa69 wrote: 2 hours ago
But yes, for me , adding someone to bnet is considered done deal and the trade should go through…

I say, just move on. If the seller continues to show this behavior, just dont trade with this person…
The amount of times I've had a buyer offer a price, I accept, they add me on, we are both online, we message saying we are both ready, I make a game, give them the info, they say 'on their way', and then proof ghost town, is not a small amount. Then 10 minutes later I get a 'sry mate, got it else where'.

These people just get squelched.
This is exactly the point I was trying to make. As a seller, I initially tried to really respect the sanctity of the prices and buyers agreed to within the trading thread. But after contacting 3-4 buyers less than 24 hours after their posting and having them tell me that they had already bought it from someone else or no longer wanted to do the trade, all the while rejecting other offers from people who could and would settle with me for the same price then and there, I gave up on that approach. Now I take the deal wherever I can get it, because otherwise I'm the only one who gets screwed.

Granted, these were all trades which were listed at or near the current market value (as best as I could ascertain it), so they weren't really auctions per se. So in that case, if the guy who replied to my thread is offering me a
Mal -- but he won't reply to my messages and he might flake -- and I have someone else messaging me right now in the rare moment when I can hop online who's also offering me a
Mal, then I know who I'm going to take.

Sometimes a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. I don't think any other system is really possible unless accountability for trades is being strictly enforced on both sides of the transaction (as they are on ebay for example), and I don't think anyone necessarily wants that.
7
OP
You see, in my naive world I would never retract from a trade that is already negotiated, unless the unlikely case it's a win-win situation for the both of us. And I would never interfer in a trade that has already been settled on, unless it is opened again.

I will not take offers that bypass diablo2.io
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TeleTabitha wrote: 2 hours ago
You see, in my naive world I would never retract from a trade that is already negotiated, unless the unlikely case it's a win-win situation for the both of us. And I would never interfer in a trade that has already been settled on, unless it is opened again.
Some people have scruples and others don't. We can't change other people. It all comes down to what type of person you want to be. The type of person you want to be known as.

Will buy any 3 minor keys for an
Ist - message me.
Will accept statues and keys instead of rune payments for my trades.
My free items and torches are for players who play on xbox only
7
TeleTabitha wrote: 2 hours ago
louner wrote: 2 hours ago
I wanted to sell charm here for 30
Jah, someone dmed me on a different site, offered 50
Jah, i cancelled the trade here.

You wouldn't? You seriously would give up the better trade?

There is no "etiquette" like you expect it to be

Next time do a smart contract on a blockchain if you want to be certain xD
That buyer could have also posted his 50
Jah offer here. You crossposted the item to have two bidder groups that know nothing of each other? I wonder why auction houses don't do that...

Yeah, but maybe that guy who offers 50
Jah doesn't know about this site or what other bidders are offering. For the seller, it's obviously better if all buyers can be aware of all offers from all other buyers. But maybe you post your listing here and 100 people see it; you post it on some other site and 40 people see it; and you make a hell lobby and 35 people see it. Those different sets of people may or may not overlap, but I'm going to take the highest offer, no matter where it comes from.

The fact that people from one of those groups aren't aware of potential offers from the other groups is literally not my problem (as the hypothetical seller in this situation). The only reason we even see it as such is because sites like ebay have a virtual monopoly on auctions like this in real life and can enforce consequences for nonpayment or nondelivery after the deal is concluded.

TeleTabitha wrote: 2 hours ago
You see, in my naive world I would never retract from a trade that is already negotiated, unless the unlikely case it's a win-win situation for the both of us. And I would never interfer in a trade that has already been settled on, unless it is opened again.
I guess I can agree with you that you do indeed choose to inhabit a very naive world. On the other hand, anyone who would refer to their own worldview as naive must, to some extent, also implicitly recognize its absurdity or impossibility. I've had many many people retract from and interfere in trades that have already been negotiated. Being unfortunately forced, as I am, to live and trade in the real world, I am forced to adapt to its peculiarities.
7
OP
Well, I noticed that some people act more in their own personal interest than I do, acknowledging that they are making the time miserable for others while doing so, so that's where my experience stems from, yes ;)

I will not take offers that bypass diablo2.io
7
OP
So I take we're in one of the situations where the wrong-doing of one individual is the permission for everyone to do so. Just like in real life ;)

I will not take offers that bypass diablo2.io
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TeleTabitha wrote: 2 hours ago
Well, I noticed that some people act more in their own personal interest than I do, acknowledging that they are making the time miserable for others while doing so, so that's where my experience stems from, yes ;)
Yes, in trading--as in all forms of business--people do tend to act in their own self interest.
TeleTabitha wrote: 2 hours ago
So I take we're in one of the situations where the wrong-doing of one individual is the permission for everyone to do so. Just like in real life ;)
And unfortunately, despite all our best attempts to escape it, we are still living in real life.

EDIT: Also, I cannot help but notice that in this post you don't acknowledge the fact that it is the very same type of wrongdoing on the part of both buyers AND sellers which leads to this state of affairs. If everyone who said they wanted to buy and added me on bnet actually bought my items, I would have absolutely no incentive to sell to anyone else outside of that. All bidding wars are in favor of the seller. The only reason any seller would ever deny you the opportunity to counteroffer is if they're insecure that ANY offer made to them will actually be fulfilled.

They are actually giving something up by denying you the opportunity to counteroffer. It might be more useful to ask yourself why they would willingly give that up than to uncritically blame them for making the trade with someone else.
7
OP
angeleyes wrote: 2 hours ago
TeleTabitha wrote: 2 hours ago
Well, I noticed that some people act more in their own personal interest than I do, acknowledging that they are making the time miserable for others while doing so, so that's where my experience stems from, yes ;)
Yes, in trading--as in all forms of business--people do tend to act in their own self interest.
TeleTabitha wrote: 2 hours ago
So I take we're in one of the situations where the wrong-doing of one individual is the permission for everyone to do so. Just like in real life ;)
And unfortunately, despite all our best attempts to escape it, we are still living in real life.
But in the real-life trading all societies I know of came up with a set of rules in the interest to avoid anarchy... And for some reason only a subset of people choose to ignore those rules, despite that giving all others the permission to do so, as you say.

I will not take offers that bypass diablo2.io
7
It happens. People are just impatient and will accept the first good offer. If someone snipes by just adding a rune to the original offer they accepted, they will take it without hesitation and won't waste time going back onto the site, posting about it, then waiting for a counter offer because the sniper may get impatient and say he found a better deal; while the original buyer may get annoyed and say he's pulling out of the deal.

This means the seller is stuck with no buyer. And it is VERY common that buyers will post to buy an item then change their mind later. This has happened to me at least 5-6 times on here already. If you don't reply super quickly, often they will just buy another item. They will even do this if you replied quickly, and will literally buy it elsewhere while you're setting a game up.

Is this not even more annoying? I think this is probably why sellers will sell quickly rather than wait through a bidding war. Most people just want to unload their items quickly and without hassle. I do not think ill intent is involved.

And to reiterate my point, I think buyers backing out and blowing up deals is way, way more common here than sellers selling to "snipers" without allowing a bidding war. At least, in my experience this is the case and is by far the bigger issue here.

So, while I feel empathy for you, I also understand why the seller did what he did and I do not fault him at all nor think badly of him in even the slightest due to how impatient, unpredictable, and flakey buyers are here.

I think you are overreacting a bit. Just relax a bit and don't take it so seriously. The site is overall good. I've only had, I would say, one negative experience here with a very rude player (whom I blocked) out of 50+ trades I've done. Mostly overwhelmingly positive experiences and met many very nice players.

Feel free to add me on bnet any time to get my attention quicker or to offer trades. <3
7
OP
I had no negative experience so far, apart from being annoyed by sniping attempts (see my signature), that's why my delusion only blew now. I suppose that also depends on the kind of stock you supply, if it is leveling gear, then the offers hold a few hours at most, I suppose.

I will not take offers that bypass diablo2.io
7
TeleTabitha wrote: 1 hour ago
angeleyes wrote: 2 hours ago
TeleTabitha wrote: 2 hours ago
Well, I noticed that some people act more in their own personal interest than I do, acknowledging that they are making the time miserable for others while doing so, so that's where my experience stems from, yes ;)
Yes, in trading--as in all forms of business--people do tend to act in their own self interest.
TeleTabitha wrote: 2 hours ago
So I take we're in one of the situations where the wrong-doing of one individual is the permission for everyone to do so. Just like in real life ;)
And unfortunately, despite all our best attempts to escape it, we are still living in real life.
But in the real-life trading all societies I know of came up with a set of rules in the interest to avoid anarchy... And for some reason only a subset of people choose to ignore those rules, despite that giving all others the permission to do so, as you say.
Yes, and that's because when you buy something on ebay, you're generally willing to wait a week or more for that trade to settle---for the payment to be made, for the item to be packed and shipped, etc. And ebay enforces it. If you win an auction and don't pay, or if someone wins an auction and you don't ship, you'll get super permabanned.

People just aren't willing to wait that long in diablo 2. I don't think they ever will be. To say nothing of the additional burden this places on unpaid volunteer moderators who have to sort through all this crap and figure out who is in the right versus who reneged on some kind of imaginary forum-based "contract".

I encourage everyone in this moment to think back to 2003 or the whole era when the only way you could sell an item was by just making a hell lobby and seeing who showed up. There was no room for these types of shenanigans in that system, was there?

AlphaJackal wrote: 1 hour ago
It happens. People are just impatient and will accept the first good offer. If someone snipes by just adding a rune to the original offer they accepted, they will take it without hesitation and won't waste time going back onto the site, posting about it, then waiting for a counter offer because the sniper may get impatient and say he found a better deal; while the original buy may get annoyed and say he's pulling out of the deal.

This means the seller is stuck with no buyer. And it is VERY common that buyers will post to buy an item then change their mind later. This has happened to me at least 5-6 times on here already. If you don't reply super quickly, often they will just buy another item. They will even do this if you replied quickly, and will literally buy it elsewhere while you're setting a game up.

Is this not even more annoying? I think this is probably why sellers will sell quickly rather than wait through a bidding war. Most people just want to unload their items quickly and without hassle. I do not think ill intent is involved.

And to reiterate my point, I think buyers backing out and blowing up deals is way, way more common here than sellers selling to "snipers" without allowing a bidding war. At least, in my experience this is the case and is by far the bigger issue here.

So, while I feel empathy for you, I also understand why the seller did what he did and I do not fault him at all nor think badly of him in even the slightest due to how impatient, unpredictable, and flakey buyers are here.

I think you are overreacting a bit. Just relax a bit and don't take it so seriously. The site is overall good. I've only had, I would say, one negative experience here with a very rude player (whom I blocked) out of 50+ trades I've done. Mostly overwhelmingly positive experiences and met many very nice players.
Thank you for putting it so well, as someone with more experience than me. This has been exactly my experience as well. I am primarily a seller, and this happens all the time and it's infuriating. Almost every time I've waited for someone so as to respect their precedence in making an offer, I've regretted it, because they've completely flaked on me and I've been left holding the bag.
7
OP
@angeleyes Are you running multiple accounts here?

I will not take offers that bypass diablo2.io
7
TeleTabitha wrote: 1 hour ago
@angeleyes Are you running multiple accounts here?
What on earth makes you think that?
7
OP
Because this account does not have all that many completed trades in its history to warrant that bad experience.

I will not take offers that bypass diablo2.io
7
TeleTabitha wrote: 1 hour ago
Because this account does not have all that many completed trades in its history to warrant that bad experience.
Okay, how many would you say I need to have in order to warrant this experience? If I have five or six people flake out on me during the few spare moments I can find to play diablo 2 and settle trades, am I just supposed to let that go until some quorum of bad flakey trades is met, and then I'm allowed to complain? Because as far as I can tell, this entire thread worth of complaining is driven by a single bad trade. On the other hand, you have stated many times how naive you are, so maybe it would take more bad trades for you to reach these same conclusions.
7
OP
I found a weak spot I suppose. In the dozen time more trades that I did over you, I had not one time such a misery as you seem to be having in 4 trades.

I will not take offers that bypass diablo2.io
7
TeleTabitha wrote: 1 hour ago
I found a weak spot I suppose. In the dozen time more trades that I did over you, I had not one time such a misery as you seem to be having in 4 trades.
Then you're very lucky. I suppose that such luck naturally comes with the territory of being so admittedly naive. I notice you haven't leveled similar comments against the others in this thread---who have more trades than either of us, such as Knappogue---who have recounted the exact same experiences I'm describing.
7
OP
They do not choose their words half as aggressive as you do.

I will not take offers that bypass diablo2.io
7
TeleTabitha wrote: 1 hour ago
They do not choose their words half as aggressive as you do.
It's certainly not my intention to be aggressive. I'm not insulting you. You yourself insist on proclaiming your naivete at every turn, and I'm just responding to those claims. I was naive at one point as well. It led to me getting scammed many times. In fact, just last week, I traded 4 statues, one from every act (including a Worusk) for an assassin torch (AND THIS WAS ON LADDER), because I was making a riftsin and I was really excited about the character and ignorant about the value of statues. That trade is really embarrassing to me now, but it is what is is.

Look, I really sympathize with your position. We all want our contracts and our deals to be honored. My point is that people on each side of this contract are equally likely to flake out on it. I have had so many buyers say they wanted something and then flake out on me after I held it for them.

It really does not matter how many trades I've done with this particular site which ended in that particular outcome to prove that point. Ask literally anyone who has traded for any amount of time and they can supplement that experience with a hundred of their own. But it's those experiences which make sellers act that way. My whole point is that a bidding war is always and can only ever be FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE SELLER. The only reason they would ever choose something else is if they had so little Faith in the buyer that they'd rather take what's then and there than wait for yet another potential flake.
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