Thanks Teebs! Definitely wanted to keep this short and sweet; right to the point.Teebling wrote: 1 year agoTh3ory's 2.7 summary video can be found below btw guys, 6 minutes of condensed insights/commentary definitely worth a watch if you're catching up on the patch notes:
So back in my original NHD video - I showcased Warren's Essay on NHD and in that, someone named Childe is the one who actually proposed moving from Global_NHD to Skill Function_Missle_NHD. This did get surfaced to Blizzard so it is likely how they decided to move forward this way.Schnorki wrote: 1 year agoThe impact of the change actually is quite noticeable (based on the pug runs I did since). Even when you're just running group stuff and not on one of the like 2 chars directly benefiting from it by themselves.
Aaaanyways...did you or one of your techie buddies look at what the NHD change really does across the board?
Based on the wording in the notes..Blizzard wrote:The Next Hit Delay system now only applies to missiles created by casting the same skill... there is some room for interpretation:
- If player A and player B both cast Nova within <4 frames of one another, player A will block player B because Nova = Nova = same skill but if player A cast Nova and player B cast Frost Nova, both would hit as Nova != Frost Nova = not same skill
- If player A and player B both cast Nova within <4 frames of one another, both will hit as player A cast != player B cast = not counted as the same skill despite being different players using what is ultimately the same skill (i.e. it actually looks at "same skill by same player", not "same skill").
- If player A casts Tornado and casts another Tornado within the NHD, both will hit as they are different casts of the same skill (i.e. it actually looks at "same cast of the same skill by the same player", not just "same skill" or "same skill by same player").
And so on and so forth.. a few possible interpretations of that from skill over skill by lvl to player, cast or even missile within cast and then some, inherently then ranging from "NHD becomes rather lenient and hardly noticeable" to "NHD still has noticeable impact in a number of scenarios".
If you consider the follow-up clarification for sin charges specifically talking about "different cast of a skill", I dare say the most intuitive interpretation overall would be "NHD only affects missiles created within the same cast of the same skill by the same unit".
If true, you would expect 0 NHD-blocking across players in a group environment (yay for that!) which seems to be supported with my experiences last night (see above). You would further expect very few instances of NHD actually still doing anything in solo play as well since only very few abilities are able to trigger multiple hits quick enough within a single cast to ever hit their NHD.
One of those however..is Strafe. And that one kinda is why I'm asking if you've done any true controlled testing so far. Based on the presumed-correct interpretation above, Strafe would still be affected by NHD if you're looking at single-target use because the mid-volley Arrows very easily drop down to 3 or even 2 frame intervals at a 4 frame NHD. As a result, every other arrow should be unable to actually hit, even post-patch. And yet, I feel like I've seen back to back mid-volley hits repeatedly last night which would imply that it isn't just "per cast" but actually "per missile", taking the possible NHD impact down to only extremely few true Edge cases of the same projectile getting more than 1 hit in somehow (something like Twister hitting a target which is then immediately knocked back by something else along the same path and gets hit again by the same Twister right away [the 2nd hit would then be blocked by NHD]).
Now, assuming I actually saw that correctly, strafezons just got a massive buff vs. bosses which you wouldn't necessarily expect from reading the notes.
The problem is..that's at best highly anecdotal evidence from random half-asleep observations while just messing around at 3am. So neither controlled testing nor otherwise something I'd want to really rely on.
And yes...this is 100% per Missle now see the post below here: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/d2r/t ... say/159394
So instead of "Global_NHD" it is "FireBolt_NHD"; easy way to understand it.
While yes there are buffs, I have to admit that this is a significant OVERREACTION. This is not a massive change at the end of the day. Did it have balancing effects - yes it did. But my hunch here, is that you are not going to necessarily see significant modifications (noticeable) especially in P8 games where you are already PLOWING through areas.
Is it a cool modification - of course it is, but this is more about group gameplay vs. SOLO in my honest assessment right now without having tested this heavily without a PTR. You somewhat nailed it with the Strafe Example from a solo play vs. a Group clear standpoint.
Schnorki
Th3ory
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