+dmg or - Res

What is more important on a griffons? Its the last thing i need for a light sorc.

I

- res is most important on a Griffon, you will get better dmg benefits from + skills and synergies with light sorc

Generally speaking, the answer depends on the char/build and the rest of your gear.

But yeah, for a light sorc the -res is typically much more important, unless you only play in a party with a lower res nec and

Conviction pally.

There's a few reasons for that:
- The +dmg isn't multiplicative with your current damage but is added to the +dmg you already get from your

Lightning Mastery, meaning it actually has fairly little overall impact.
- The -res does flat out multiply all of your current dmg against any target mob because a light sorc doesn't have any -res by default. Though it does stack additively with other -res (e.g. facets or Infinity).
- On light immune mobs, Infinity may break the immunity but it still leaves the target with very high resistances after breaking it. If you don't have -res, all the +dmg in the world won't help you all that much. Just a little bit of -res at that point however can very easily 5x or more the dmg you actually do to the target.

As a rule of thumb, the more +dmg you have, the less important it becomes and the more -res you have, the less important that becomes. In the case of -res, there is a hard

Cap as well, meaning you can reach a point where getting more of it literally does nothing anymore. Specifically, that point is at -100 res on the mob or -195 combined from you/your party (not counting the

Conviction or LR you may need to break immunities). That's why for a cold sorc for example, +dmg does significantly more than -res on facets. Their starting point is basically the opposite of a light or fire sorc in that regard.

On things like assassins, you have other considerations as well because the -res only counts for you and not your minions. And because traps are considered minions, the -res does absolutely nothing for them for example.

Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago

Generally speaking, the answer depends on the char/build and the rest of your gear.

But yeah, for a light sorc the -res is typically much more important, unless you only play in a party with a lower res nec and

Conviction pally.

There's a few reasons for that:
- The +dmg isn't multiplicative with your current damage but is added to the +dmg you already get from your

Lightning Mastery, meaning it actually has fairly little overall impact.
- The -res does flat out multiply all of your current dmg against any target mob because a light sorc doesn't have any -res by default. Though it does stack additively with other -res (e.g. facets or Infinity).
- On light immune mobs, Infinity may break the immunity but it still leaves the target with very high resistances after breaking it. If you don't have -res, all the +dmg in the world won't help you all that much. Just a little bit of -res at that point however can very easily 5x or more the dmg you actually do to the target.

As a rule of thumb, the more +dmg you have, the less important it becomes and the more -res you have, the less important that becomes. In the case of -res, there is a hard

Cap as well, meaning you can reach a point where getting more of it literally does nothing anymore. Specifically, that point is at -100 res on the mob or -195 combined from you/your party (not counting the

Conviction or LR you may need to break immunities). That's why for a cold sorc for example, +dmg does significantly more than -res on facets. Their starting point is basically the opposite of a light or fire sorc in that regard.

On things like assassins, you have other considerations as well because the -res only counts for you and not your minions. And because traps are considered minions, the -res does absolutely nothing for them for example.

So essentially would a Crescent Moon be a better weapon for maximizing damage than a hoto or eschutas?

nilrem wrote: 2 years ago

Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago

Generally speaking, the answer depends on the char/build and the rest of your gear.

But yeah, for a light sorc the -res is typically much more important, unless you only play in a party with a lower res nec and

Conviction pally.

There's a few reasons for that:
- The +dmg isn't multiplicative with your current damage but is added to the +dmg you already get from your

Lightning Mastery, meaning it actually has fairly little overall impact.
- The -res does flat out multiply all of your current dmg against any target mob because a light sorc doesn't have any -res by default. Though it does stack additively with other -res (e.g. facets or Infinity).
- On light immune mobs, Infinity may break the immunity but it still leaves the target with very high resistances after breaking it. If you don't have -res, all the +dmg in the world won't help you all that much. Just a little bit of -res at that point however can very easily 5x or more the dmg you actually do to the target.

As a rule of thumb, the more +dmg you have, the less important it becomes and the more -res you have, the less important that becomes. In the case of -res, there is a hard

Cap as well, meaning you can reach a point where getting more of it literally does nothing anymore. Specifically, that point is at -100 res on the mob or -195 combined from you/your party (not counting the

Conviction or LR you may need to break immunities). That's why for a cold sorc for example, +dmg does significantly more than -res on facets. Their starting point is basically the opposite of a light or fire sorc in that regard.

On things like assassins, you have other considerations as well because the -res only counts for you and not your minions. And because traps are considered minions, the -res does absolutely nothing for them for example.

So essentially would a Crescent Moon be a better weapon for maximizing damage than a hoto or eschutas?

Yes and no.

If you don't have Infinity yet, Crescent likely yields more damage than hoto or eschuta would.

If you do have an Infinity on your merc though, that's -85 res already. Add in -15 for even a minimum Griffon and you're at the -100

Cap on all "normal" mobs. At that point, the -res on Crescent does nothing for you and you want the +skills instead. The exception to that rule are mobs that come with light res or even immunity starting out. For those, Crescent would often still win out but overall, they tend to be rare enough by comparison to make that not worth it on average.

Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago

nilrem wrote: 2 years ago

Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago

Generally speaking, the answer depends on the char/build and the rest of your gear.

But yeah, for a light sorc the -res is typically much more important, unless you only play in a party with a lower res nec and

Conviction pally.

There's a few reasons for that:
- The +dmg isn't multiplicative with your current damage but is added to the +dmg you already get from your

Lightning Mastery, meaning it actually has fairly little overall impact.
- The -res does flat out multiply all of your current dmg against any target mob because a light sorc doesn't have any -res by default. Though it does stack additively with other -res (e.g. facets or Infinity).
- On light immune mobs, Infinity may break the immunity but it still leaves the target with very high resistances after breaking it. If you don't have -res, all the +dmg in the world won't help you all that much. Just a little bit of -res at that point however can very easily 5x or more the dmg you actually do to the target.

As a rule of thumb, the more +dmg you have, the less important it becomes and the more -res you have, the less important that becomes. In the case of -res, there is a hard

Cap as well, meaning you can reach a point where getting more of it literally does nothing anymore. Specifically, that point is at -100 res on the mob or -195 combined from you/your party (not counting the

Conviction or LR you may need to break immunities). That's why for a cold sorc for example, +dmg does significantly more than -res on facets. Their starting point is basically the opposite of a light or fire sorc in that regard.

On things like assassins, you have other considerations as well because the -res only counts for you and not your minions. And because traps are considered minions, the -res does absolutely nothing for them for example.

So essentially would a Crescent Moon be a better weapon for maximizing damage than a hoto or eschutas?

Yes and no.

If you don't have Infinity yet, Crescent likely yields more damage than hoto or eschuta would.

If you do have an Infinity on your merc though, that's -85 res already. Add in -15 for even a minimum Griffon and you're at the -100

Cap on all "normal" mobs. At that point, the -res on Crescent does nothing for you and you want the +skills instead. The exception to that rule are mobs that come with light res or even immunity starting out. For those, Crescent would often still win out but overall, they tend to be rare enough by comparison to make that not worth it on average.

I was under the impression that the -res on Infinity only applies to the damage my merc does and not the damage that i do. So that would mean a perf -res griffons with a 5/5 in it and cresent moon would be more like -55.

nilrem wrote: 2 years ago

Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago

nilrem wrote: 2 years ago

So essentially would a Crescent Moon be a better weapon for maximizing damage than a hoto or eschutas?

Yes and no.

If you don't have Infinity yet, Crescent likely yields more damage than hoto or eschuta would.

If you do have an Infinity on your merc though, that's -85 res already. Add in -15 for even a minimum Griffon and you're at the -100

Cap on all "normal" mobs. At that point, the -res on Crescent does nothing for you and you want the +skills instead. The exception to that rule are mobs that come with light res or even immunity starting out. For those, Crescent would often still win out but overall, they tend to be rare enough by comparison to make that not worth it on average.

I was under the impression that the -res on Infinity only applies to the damage my merc does and not the damage that i do. So that would mean a perf -res griffons with a 5/5 in it and cresent moon would be more like -55.

Also yes and no.

Infinity comes with two sources of -res:
- The

Conviction aura is applied to the mob. This one adds -85 res and works for everything hitting the mob, including yourself.
- The flat -res on the Infinity itself only works for your merc (or rather, whomever wields the Infinity).

As a result, Infinity offers up to -140 res for whomever wields it and -85 for whomever hits a target with the Infinity

Conviction on it.

Some mobs will have like 99% light resist after being broken so this is why you need - res source if you have Infinity on your merc, theres not many of them but still you want farm nearly all the content with light sorc right, Crescent Moon will give you a lot of - res but the price you will pay with FCR +Skills and mana will make it not worth it for most light sorc builds. This is why Griffons is so good.

Ah, yes, my favorite -light res topic
The more I play my infi-wieldin girl - the more I like her. -85 from

Conviction, -25 from griffon, and -49 from the weapon. Lightning hits like a train, despite the 19k number - visually it looks like it's 50k, no less. Crescent Moon sword? Why, if you can wield an infi yourself, and benefit as well from good Insight on your merc.
I think I'll spend a pair of tokens to test the girl with maxed

Nova instead of

Telekinesis. If this will result in some crazy overkill - might max

Thunder Storm, mostly out of curiosity. Just hit 93lvl, and roasted

Vex and

Ber from mobs yesterday. Love this char

Asha wrote: 2 years ago

Ah, yes, my favorite -light res topic
The more I play my infi-wieldin girl - the more I like her. -85 from

Conviction, -25 from griffon, and -49 from the weapon. Lightning hits like a train, despite the 19k number - visually it looks like it's 50k, no less. Crescent Moon sword? Why, if you can wield an infi yourself, and benefit as well from good Insight on your merc.
I think I'll spend a pair of tokens to test the girl with maxed

Nova instead of

Telekinesis. If this will result in some crazy overkill - might max

Thunder Storm, mostly out of curiosity. Just hit 93lvl, and roasted

Vex and

Ber from mobs yesterday. Love this char

So i did the dumb thing and made an Infinity out of a CV cause it was a 15 ed base and i just had to use it. So i cant use the Infinity myself without crippling the character lol.

There are so many opinions on whata to use for the light sorc weapon wise. It all seems like a personal preference

Asha wrote: 2 years ago

Ah, yes, my favorite -light res topic
The more I play my infi-wieldin girl - the more I like her. -85 from

Conviction, -25 from griffon, and -49 from the weapon. Lightning hits like a train, despite the 19k number - visually it looks like it's 50k, no less. Crescent Moon sword? Why, if you can wield an infi yourself, and benefit as well from good Insight on your merc.
I think I'll spend a pair of tokens to test the girl with maxed

Nova instead of

Telekinesis. If this will result in some crazy overkill - might max

Thunder Storm, mostly out of curiosity. Just hit 93lvl, and roasted

Vex and

Ber from mobs yesterday. Love this char

Spoiler alert:
2.4

Nova = crazy good.

They'll about to boost sorc

Nova as well? jesus, ain't that peachy. I'll try

Nova tomorrow - not usin chain lightnings anyway. Still, I have my doubts

Nova will beat good old lightning I'm eager to run such a test.

I wanted some budget -light res for my java. So i did crescent for my merc and with griffon and that thunder

Javelin(dunno its name) I was hoping for totall -res (crescent+griffon+thunder jav) but it did nothing because crescent is -res only for merc. So i went Infinity and it breaks normal monsters. I will try to mix it with that thunder jav if I can break more or not. I dunno numbers atm.

How does it work anyway? Lets say monster has 100res which means it takes 0dmg. If I add -10res it should still shown light immune (my assumption is that 75+% res is shown as light immune). So monster will have 90% res does it mean it will take 10% of my lighting dmg?

The Flash wrote: 2 years ago

I wanted some budget -light res for my java. So i did crescent for my merc and with griffon and that thunder

Javelin(dunno its name) I was hoping for totall -res (crescent+griffon+thunder jav) but it did nothing because crescent is -res only for merc. So i went Infinity and it breaks normal monsters. I will try to mix it with that thunder jav if I can break more or not. I dunno numbers atm.

How does it work anyway? Lets say monster has 100res which means it takes 0dmg. If I add -10res it should still shown light immune (my assumption is that 75+% res is shown as light immune). So monster will have 90% res does it mean it will take 10% of my lighting dmg?

Playin a java, first thing you need is to drop lightning immunity of mobs - that means infi for your merc (not necessary for usual beef slaughter). And AFTER you got rid of the immunities - there applies your -lres from items, mostly griffon,

Thunderstroke, and facets in your gear. Java doesn't need Crescent Moon - she uses javelins and merc with infi . Another option is to cast

Lower Resist from proper

Wand put on your swap - but CtA proves more useful on practice.
The more light

Pierce you got - the more deadly your electricity is. Just drop their LI and the rest is a steak.

Asha wrote: 2 years ago

They'll about to boost sorc

Nova as well? jesus, ain't that peachy. I'll try

Nova tomorrow - not usin chain lightnings anyway. Still, I have my doubts

Nova will beat good old lightning I'm eager to run such a test.

Didn't read the notes/test it?

Nova gets

Static Field added as a synergy. And based on the numbers in the last iteration on the 2.4 PTR, it basically flat-out doubles

Nova's damage as compared to live today.

Though in your particular case, I guess the lack of FCR with Infinity will be way more obvious with

Nova than it is with Lightning/

Chain Lightning.

The Flash wrote: 2 years ago

I wanted some budget -light res for my java. So i did crescent for my merc and with griffon and that thunder

Javelin(dunno its name) I was hoping for totall -res (crescent+griffon+thunder jav) but it did nothing because crescent is -res only for merc. So i went Infinity and it breaks normal monsters. I will try to mix it with that thunder jav if I can break more or not. I dunno numbers atm.

How does it work anyway? Lets say monster has 100res which means it takes 0dmg. If I add -10res it should still shown light immune (my assumption is that 75+% res is shown as light immune). So monster will have 90% res does it mean it will take 10% of my lighting dmg?

You won't break any more immunities with Thunder.

Immunities in D2 can only be broken with 4 skills:
-

Conviction
- Lower Res
- Amplify
-

Decrepify

Amp and Decrep are irrelevant here because they only affect physical immunities.

For a Java (i.e. lightning), your only way to break immunities is with

Conviction or lower res. If you play in a party, a pally can offer a higher

Conviction than your Infinity can and a necro could add lower res. That'd allow you to break more mobs than with only Infinity. But by yourself, Infinity is the best source of

Conviction and the only thing you could still add to that is

Lower Resist from weapon charges/procs.

Any other -res "only" reduces resistances if the immunities on a mob are already broken.

Another thing to note in terms of how all of this works is that -res for breaking immunities only works at 1/5th capacity. That means on a lightning immune mob, your Infinity will not drop their res by -85 but it'll only take off -17. Because of that, the highest immunity that can be broken with it is 115 (theoretically 116 but they only come in multiples of 5).

On said 115 res immune mob, Infinity would drop it to 98% resistant, breaking the immunity. Any other -res you then have will have full effect. So your perfect griffon for example will tack on -20, putting the mob at 78% resistant. That's why -res items are so massive on previously immune mobs. They easily 3-20x your actual effective damage against them.

If you bring a higher

Conviction (=paladin) and/or add on

Lower Resist, you can break mobs higher than 115 res but that's again independent of any -res you yourself may have on gear. If they're not broken, your own -res does absolutely nothing.

A non-immune mob will actually get the full -85 from Infinity's

Conviction. No 1/5th effect there.

And just to add the last point of related information: Regardless of whether a mob was previously immune and broken or wasn't immune to begin with, the lowest you can ever push its res with everything combined is -100. That's true for all elemental dmg which is why

Cold Mastery for example has an effective hard

Cap (at lvl 36) after which any further skill points literally do nothing. Ever.

Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago

On said 115 res immune mob, Infinity would drop it to 98% resistant, breaking the immunity. Any other -res you then have will have full effect.

thanks for really good answer.

so i need one of those 4 skills (

Conviction, lower resists,

Amplify Damage or

Decrepify) or combination for bigger effect. and only then -res on items will work? and If I have no Infinity then, light immunes will be still light immunes even if I have -500% on imaginary weapon? But if I have Infinity to break "light immune" then my imaginary weapon -500% will take place and put that monster light res to -500%?

I am saying it right, right?

Btw I find java dmg insanly high and even if it was half then it would still be epic.

The only monster I have problem to kill is phys and light immune cow king. But for that my

Valkyrie will kill him in a minute or so.

The Flash wrote: 2 years ago

Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago

On said 115 res immune mob, Infinity would drop it to 98% resistant, breaking the immunity. Any other -res you then have will have full effect.

thanks for really good answer.

so i need one of those 4 skills (

Conviction, lower resists,

Amplify Damage or

Decrepify) or combination for bigger effect. and only then -res on items will work? and If I have no Infinity then, light immunes will be still light immunes even if I have -500% on imaginary weapon? But if I have Infinity to break "light immune" then my imaginary weapon -500% will take place and put that monster light res to -500%?

I am saying it right, right?

Btw I find java dmg insanly high and even if it was half then it would still be epic.

The only monster I have problem to kill is phys and light immune cow king. But for that my

Valkyrie will kill him in a minute or so.

For any immune mob, you need one of those 4 skills, yes (depending on whether you're talking about physical, elemental and/or poison immunities).
Any direct -res you may have on a weapon will not break immunities. Even if you had said imaginary -500. There was a bug upon release where

Cold Mastery was breaking immunities but even that was taken out again as well.

If you have an Infinity and that Infinity's

Conviction is enough to break the immunity, then your imaginary -500 res weapon would put the target mob at -100 for you. Theoretically, the -500 applies in full but the -res is capped at -100. You could also have an imaginary -199 res weapon and that, too would put the target mob at -100 after Infinity broke the immunities.

Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago

There was a bug upon release where

Cold Mastery was breaking immunities but even that was taken out again as well.

speaking of

Cold Mastery. If I dont have Infinity on my merc (he has Insight) then this only increases dmg vs not cold immunes. Well that sux. My sorc is lvl88, so not all maxed. I maxed

Cold Mastery, and now with my next skill point it goes to synergies. Got damn it. This is so frustrating how it works if u dont trully understand it.

Thx again for explaining. I understand it now.

Asha wrote: 2 years ago

Another option is to cast

Lower Resist from proper

Wand put on your swap - but CtA proves more useful on practice.

I have Harmony on offhand. I dont think I need more dmg. I am also miss +skills on one ring.