Rune prices are in shambles

This website is the reason I went from barely finishing Nighmare single player in the past, to a Uber ending Enigma wearing machine.

Took effort? Yes, farming keys for

Um for 3 and then farming torches for

Gul a piece meant that it took forever, but through trade my goals were met. Never saw a

Ber or a

Jah drop, but proper trading was all I needed, apart from putting effort into farming.

Prices are a bit crazy, but we are in endgame now. Perhaps new fresh people will increase the demand of unique items, and that's good.

Illdaren wrote: 3 years ago

There are always ways to make it easier, but not all of them are practical. The first two examples I just gave above are likely impractical: they would require creating a script that can intelligently verify trade prices from the last three days, know the effective values, and list them. Even if those run once a day and cache the results, that's not a small effort.

Agreed. This has been discussed before in the Feedback section - whilst I can do something like load the list of last 10 trades quite easily, I cannot easily calculate a 'mean' or 'average' price unless I manually assign values in a range of some sort of currency (not possible nor accurate in a volatile bartering market). Furthermore, sales data for trades is often a combination of items (like a

Pul and some Pgems for example) - quantifying all of that as well makes it even more challenging to flatten out to a single interpretable 'price' for the trader. I would need to add a theoretical 'score' or 'value' to every single item in the game - how to determine that with precision and how would the values be decided to make it a 'baseline' value not affected by the demands of the day? It'd be a lengthy undertaking to automate something a human can do very quickly by scanning a page or two of the recent/historical prices. Maybe someone who knows a bit about organic machine learning could train a bot to do this somehow.

So yeah. I could, I guess, add a 'quick price check' button to the list new trade page and have it load the last 10 from recents or the last 10 from historical or something like that, with a link to the full results if needed. That'd still help new people (as you guys have pointed out) without me having to reinvent the wheel.

Thank you for recognising practicality and time available on my end.

If I were to give any feedback about price checking, I have to say that the price checking section is a bit confusing to access. When you are browsing or searching trades, the price check button disappears. I can't immediately access the price check section from this forum either.

It took me a little bit to get used to navigating the forums. When I first joined these forums, the load times were nearly unbearable.

Hey look, it's this thread again. The noble man looking out for the mythical new guy who is apparently too stupid to read trade history.

Teebling wrote: 3 years ago

It'd be a lengthy undertaking to automate something a human can do very quickly by scanning a page or two of the recent/historical prices.

It would probably be simpler to categorize sale prices from highest to lowest, probably based on something very constant that doesn't change much, like the overall ranking of runes:

Ber is always going to be one of the most expensive,

El one of the cheapest, etc. Then, once you have that, the 'bot' would discard any sales data that don't fit into the ranking, and grab the lowest, average, and highest sale prices for the past 3 days, suggesting them as something like "As little as 2

Lem, as much as

Um, average of

Pul: see Sales Data for more info". The ranking wouldn't be easy, but it would be useful and concretely doable without machine learning.

Teebling wrote: 3 years ago

So yeah. I could, I guess, add a 'quick price check' button to the list new trade page and have it load the last 10 from recents or the last 10 from historical or something like that, with a link to the full results if needed. That'd still help new people (as you guys have pointed out) without me having to reinvent the wheel.

...Well shit, that's an even more MVP version of what I just wrote up. Great idea!

Teebling wrote: 3 years ago

Thank you for recognising practicality and time available on my end.

More people need to watch this. It's more about requirements than time constraints, but... it's still knowledge that is painfully lacking among non-devs.

Teebling wrote: 3 years ago

Maybe someone who knows a bit about organic machine learning could train a bot to do this somehow.

As amazing as this sounds, that's a lot of coding you'd have to do just (as you said) to get a score / value on items we as humans have put a value on.

And also from a coders perspective, this will never be as accurate as an human can determine a avg value of an item if its sold for a

Pul or a

Lem,

As well as that in theory all

Perfect Gems are worth the same, as they mostly are used for trading, but as well as the

Amethyst is worth more as its used in crafting more etc.

With these values again, you'd have to learn the bot (or code it in ofcourse) that a

Amethyst is 1.1 > 1 rest of the gems.

And with all that, it's gonna require some fire power behind that bot to scan the thousands of trades that are on the website, than again track the prices, getting an avg on that, with a dynamic value of the items in trade, but also the resources used to trade with :p

As an actual new player, I think this website makes it incredibly simple to search for an item's value. Like, the item page literally says "Price History" and "Sold (3d)". What exactly is the problem?

misaochan wrote: 3 years ago

What exactly is the problem?

people

Rune prices are being dictated by losers who have hoarded FG for years.

Ber runes collapsed and now they're liquidating all of their HR for

Ist since it's more stable. They're making threads buying up everyone's runes but now people asking dumb shit like 3

Ist

Mal

Um for a

Vex or

Lo

Ohm for

Sur.

This is the whole problem with that site. You've got people sitting on legit 500+ ists sitting in an ivory tower that can dictate the price of runes within 1-2 days by changing their personal rates.

This site was pretty clear of obvious whales but as casuals have left the number of them trading on here has grown.

kevdrogo wrote: 3 years ago

Ber runes collapsed

What do you mean by this? I am out of the loop -- are you telling me it's a

Ber market (har har har, but srsly).

kevdrogo wrote: 3 years ago

3

Ist

Mal

Um for a

Vex or

Lo

Ohm for

Sur.

I have been seeing a lot of this type of trade, and my hypothesis is that the traditional valuation of runes is being challenged by the base rate of cubing. Especially with

Sur, since it has been conventionally held to be worth a

Lo -- yet as you say people are asking for things like

Lo

Ohm (

Vex in some cases...) for it right now... I sort of assumed that everyone is so thirsty for

Ber that the price of a

Sur has skyrocketed.

SkeletonFriend wrote: 3 years ago

kevdrogo wrote: 3 years ago

Ber runes collapsed

What do you mean by this? I am out of the loop -- are you telling me it's a

Ber market (har har har, but srsly).

kevdrogo wrote: 3 years ago

3

Ist

Mal

Um for a

Vex or

Lo

Ohm for

Sur.

I have been seeing a lot of this type of trade, and my hypothesis is that the traditional valuation of runes is being challenged by the base rate of cubing. Especially with

Sur, since it has been conventionally held to be worth a

Lo -- yet as you say people are asking for things like

Lo

Ohm (

Vex in some cases...) for it right now... I sort of assumed that everyone is so thirsty for

Ber that the price of a

Sur has skyrocketed.

There's been 100% a shift in the meta causing

Sur to be worth more than

Lo (which it should be) and that makes sense. Earlier on it was ALL MF SORC and the next huge meta was torch/Uber farming so everyone rolled a Pala and needed Grief, people needed forts for their Mercs. Players who are left and still farming hard are looking towards their Infinity and enigmas (if they didn't already go Enigma first).

I'm just commenting on the very drastic/sudden rise in rune prices and how they're fluctuating so much. IMO it's because of the FG crowd. I trade, a lot; less on here since I've moved towards more late game trades, and across all platforms I see the same thing: Mass culling of HR from people with a seemingly unlimited supply jacking up the rates.

Then it becomes a simple supply/demand issue where a crapton of all of the HR in the game have all been hoarded with FG.

"but that doesn't help the casual player who doesn't have the time or motivation to spend more time learning about a game than playing it"

I stopped reading here, no motivation to take care of your sale? No time to actually have a look what something is worth? And in the meantime you expect the world to shape around you and change for you? Comeone guys, we are not 5 anymore

Anthonyc952421 wrote: 3 years ago

In regards to Queegon I have to say,

There are many assumptions humans make all the time about everything, most of which you are not aware of (I won't break down psychology here).

One of my assumptions that I am always working around is 'The Golden Rule' - treat others how you expect to be treated.

I have many disagreements and arguments to make over how people conduct themselves in a free market and how ethically controversial it can become. Both in real world economies and in-game ones,

I do not wish to have that conversation here, with you, as I really doubt you have the knowledge to engage with this discussion in any meaningful way when your main argument is "supply and demand" yes I understand that is what it is - I'm saying people who are morally flexible take advantage of that demand when they could act in a more fair and proportionate way instead of fueling their own greed and endless lust for Wealth.

If you think there's no problem with that cool, I do think there's a problem with it.

The problem is that free markets don't care about how we feel, which is why they are normally leveraged with public good legislation / ideals that cover the essentials (unemployment, so on) because those systems have net positives outweighing the negatives. I assure you this is how it works and ethics can go either way within that framework. It is a math problem, the end really. The issue with the economies being discussed here are that they rely on no real underpinning outside of that availability framework (referred commonly to as 'free market' which, technically exists nowhere in a moral sense). It is a failing of the game's design really to not factor this in (in societies case it would be the managers of those societies, etc).

kevdrogo wrote: 3 years ago

Rune prices are being dictated by losers who have hoarded FG for years.

Ber runes collapsed and now they're liquidating all of their HR for

Ist since it's more stable. They're making threads buying up everyone's runes but now people asking dumb shit like 3

Ist

Mal

Um for a

Vex or

Lo

Ohm for

Sur.

This is the whole problem with that site. You've got people sitting on legit 500+ ists sitting in an ivory tower that can dictate the price of runes within 1-2 days by changing their personal rates.

This site was pretty clear of obvious whales but as casuals have left the number of them trading on here has grown.

I have tons of things posted to the site here; most seem in line with the pricing. Things just don't move here very well. Theres like 600 people logged in. It's a shame because this is a real cool community. And I will never get an Enigma trading here so it's only a matter of time, though id still hang out here.

Akahan wrote: 3 years ago

kevdrogo wrote: 3 years ago

Rune prices are being dictated by losers who have hoarded FG for years.

Ber runes collapsed and now they're liquidating all of their HR for

Ist since it's more stable. They're making threads buying up everyone's runes but now people asking dumb shit like 3

Ist

Mal

Um for a

Vex or

Lo

Ohm for

Sur.

This is the whole problem with that site. You've got people sitting on legit 500+ ists sitting in an ivory tower that can dictate the price of runes within 1-2 days by changing their personal rates.

This site was pretty clear of obvious whales but as casuals have left the number of them trading on here has grown.

I have tons of things posted to the site here; most seem in line with the pricing. Things just don't move here very well. Theres like 600 people logged in. It's a shame because this is a real cool community. And I will never get an Enigma trading here so it's only a matter of time, though id still hang out here.

Not to sound too rude, but you need to actually find and post VALUED items to get runes for Enigma. The items u have posted wont sell anywhere, its not the site. If u want to work towards getting an Enigma, I can help you learn what people are looking for and what will sell quickly. Add me in game if u like

Yeah there's a lot of trash items in this game. Lots of items which look cool but nobody wants badly enough to actually trade for. My 7

Tal Rasha's Horadric Crest make for great mercenary helms, but that's the problem... I've found 7 of them... so has everybody else, more or less. At this point in the game only the GG items are really going to be sought after.

Akahan wrote: 3 years ago

I have tons of things posted to the site here; most seem in line with the pricing. Things just don't move here very well. Theres like 600 people logged in. It's a shame because this is a real cool community. And I will never get an Enigma trading here so it's only a matter of time, though id still hang out here.

Look in the history of the items in what frequenzy they are sold and in what frequenzy they are offered. Pricing is one thing, demand is another. If the demand is very low, don't expect to sell anyting if you pricing is in line with the rest and even if you sell lower then the market you need luck with actually finding a potential buyer.

Darq wrote: 3 years ago

Look in the history of the items in what frequenzy they are sold and in what frequenzy they are offered. Pricing is one thing, demand is another. If the demand is very low, don't expect to sell anyting if you pricing is in line with the rest and even if you sell lower then the market you need luck with actually finding a potential buyer.

Yeah, going back to my

Tal Rasha's Horadric Crest example, there are currently 157 of them up for trade right now. 3 of them have sold in the past 3 days. That has nothing to do with the site. That happens because while it's a useful item, it is extremely common and everybody's stash is already overflowing with them. But it looks good enough that you'd look at it and think 'man somebody would probably want this', and it gets posted. By everybody. There are so many people who have this item that you could probably post it for free and nobody would take it because nobody could find it in the sea of

Tal Rasha helms.

For an item to have enough value to sell, it has to be rare enough to have value.

At least with this site you can have d2io open in a 2nd monitor and quickly check trade data in real time to see if its worth even with picking up off the Ground.

joe3792 wrote: 3 years ago

Akahan wrote: 3 years ago

kevdrogo wrote: 3 years ago

Rune prices are being dictated by losers who have hoarded FG for years.

Ber runes collapsed and now they're liquidating all of their HR for

Ist since it's more stable. They're making threads buying up everyone's runes but now people asking dumb shit like 3

Ist

Mal

Um for a

Vex or

Lo

Ohm for

Sur.

This is the whole problem with that site. You've got people sitting on legit 500+ ists sitting in an ivory tower that can dictate the price of runes within 1-2 days by changing their personal rates.

This site was pretty clear of obvious whales but as casuals have left the number of them trading on here has grown.

I have tons of things posted to the site here; most seem in line with the pricing. Things just don't move here very well. Theres like 600 people logged in. It's a shame because this is a real cool community. And I will never get an Enigma trading here so it's only a matter of time, though id still hang out here.

Not to sound too rude, but you need to actually find and post VALUED items to get runes for Enigma. The items u have posted wont sell anywhere, its not the site. If u want to work towards getting an Enigma, I can help you learn what people are looking for and what will sell quickly. Add me in game if u like

To avoid rudeness in the response i'd say no thanks but definitely appreciate the offer. In regard to my items having things like 'trade for whatever' should be a quick indicator that I don't believe the items are worth too much. Additionally I never expected to trade the things I have for an Enigma. I played the game eons ago and trading / finding items in game is significantly easier than it was; my response was more 'and I know what to do to speed things up if I wanted to' as opposed to 'why won't anyone give me an Enigma for my half trash'. It doesn't change the fact that clean PnB necro GC's should trade clean for at least 2 of the 5 GC's i have now, but aren't (within a reasonable time frame).

Additional posts advising me to consider supply and demand don't need responding to because yes, but that wasn't what I was getting at. I can understand 'the other site and its popularity' is all.

Akahan wrote: 3 years ago

joe3792 wrote: 3 years ago

Akahan wrote: 3 years ago

kevdrogo wrote: 3 years ago

Rune prices are being dictated by losers who have hoarded FG for years.

Ber runes collapsed and now they're liquidating all of their HR for

Ist since it's more stable. They're making threads buying up everyone's runes but now people asking dumb shit like 3

Ist

Mal

Um for a

Vex or

Lo

Ohm for

Sur.

This is the whole problem with that site. You've got people sitting on legit 500+ ists sitting in an ivory tower that can dictate the price of runes within 1-2 days by changing their personal rates.

This site was pretty clear of obvious whales but as casuals have left the number of them trading on here has grown.

I have tons of things posted to the site here; most seem in line with the pricing. Things just don't move here very well. Theres like 600 people logged in. It's a shame because this is a real cool community. And I will never get an Enigma trading here so it's only a matter of time, though id still hang out here.

Not to sound too rude, but you need to actually find and post VALUED items to get runes for Enigma. The items u have posted wont sell anywhere, its not the site. If u want to work towards getting an Enigma, I can help you learn what people are looking for and what will sell quickly. Add me in game if u like

To avoid rudeness in the response i'd say no thanks but definitely appreciate the offer. In regard to my items having things like 'trade for whatever' should be a quick indicator that I don't believe the items are worth too much. Additionally I never expected to trade the things I have for an Enigma. I played the game eons ago and trading / finding items in game is significantly easier than it was; my response was more 'and I know what to do to speed things up if I wanted to' as opposed to 'why won't anyone give me an Enigma for my half trash'. It doesn't change the fact that clean PnB necro GC's should trade clean for at least 2 of the 5 GC's i have now, but aren't (within a reasonable time frame).

Additional posts advising me to consider supply and demand don't need responding to because yes, but that wasn't what I was getting at. I can understand 'the other site and its popularity' is all.