PSA Reminder: Lowballers

This one is mostly for the newbies. Know the average current values of your items (forums/useful-diablo-2-links-resources-t3232.html), and be careful about people intentionally trying to rip you off. There are some users here who will give you cheap offers, then turn around and flip your items on jsp or elsewhere. I spoke to someone here and he said he saw his item that he sold appear on jsp. There are some very blatant lowballers that I've seen here, and I suspect that at least some of them are shamelessly flipping items. I won't name any names, but you know who you are.

I don't know how prevalent this is here, but I believe that it's happening at a higher frequency than we would like to think.

There's nothing wrong with flipping or low balling. The only rule we have here is no trade poaching. Everyone is free to make, ignore or accept any offer they want.

BillyMaysed wrote: 2 years ago

There's nothing wrong with flipping or low balling. The only rule we have here is no trade poaching. Everyone is free to make, ignore or accept any offer they want.

I understand it's not against the rules. I'm just trying to caution others.

You have to differ from people that are lowballing or sellers who are accepting lower offers because they want to sell quickly.

I intentionally offer always a little below what I know the item is actually worth, because I try to make profit.
For me D2R is a trading game simulator. Farming 90237840928370402 pits isn't fun for me and also I just don't have the time for that anymore.
But I do enjoy trading and of course everyone who is trading trying to earn and not lose.

obviously trying to rip noobs off by offering a

Lo for a

Ber is kinda silly.

Offering a

Jah for a badly rolled Faith is probably lowballing but can work because the exact value fluctuates


I mean sure, most lowballing offers getting annoying and I get that.
I mean I am trying to sell good rolls by myself and people offer less than the cost of the Runeword. That is certainly kind of annoying and normally anyone who has those runewords know that they are more valuable than the cost unless they rolled very bad

oldboldsummoner wrote: 2 years ago

There are some very blatant lowballers that I've seen here, and I suspect that at least some of them are shamelessly flipping items.

And what is the problem with making a profit? This is the way trading in the real world works. if you don't use your time to optimize trade, other will do. Also we have a buyer's market so buyers have the power to lowball. Today's lowball is tomorrows normal price.

oldboldsummoner wrote: 2 years ago

I understand it's not against the rules. I'm just trying to caution others.

Would it then not be more helpful, if you give an advise how to check the current price? Your post looks more like hate against lowballers.

Flipping exists everywhere, from concert tickets to iphones to onitsuka tiger shoes to crypto to space on a freighter vessel. These people are actually performing a kind of service, where they connect an urgent seller with no time overlap with an urgent buyer, and they reap the consequent profit of the time saved by both parties. It cannot be helped that sometimes, a seller or buyer will suffer a loss that they did not intend due to ignorance, however, that ignorance is NOT the fault of the middleman, especially not in d2. There simply is no excuse for lack of market knowledge especially if trading in this website.

There is an option above quick search called "Run a price check". You are playing yourself if you dont use it.
Also some items just lose value over time. people were trading soj's for tals armor at the start of d2r. now the market is so flooded with tals armors that they are going for 2ists lol..

Darq wrote: 2 years ago

oldboldsummoner wrote: 2 years ago

There are some very blatant lowballers that I've seen here, and I suspect that at least some of them are shamelessly flipping items.

And what is the problem with making a profit? This is the way trading in the real world works. if you don't use your time to optimize trade, other will do. Also we have a buyer's market so buyers have the power to lowball. Today's lowball is tomorrows normal price.

There is absolutely no problem with making a profit, and I did not say nor imply that there is. There is, however, a problem with ripping people off. One is honest, the other is deceptive and unethical. I've seen offers that are 3 or more rune tiers lower than what the item is worth. They're looking to exploit people's ignorance.

Suppose I have an ounce of gold and have no clue what it's worth, but I want to sell it. If I offer a sale and you come and say, "I'll give you $300 for it," hoping I'm clueless, then you're ripping me off, because it's worth almost $1800 in the market right now.

Darq wrote: 2 years ago

Would it then not be more helpful, if you give an advise how to check the current price? Your post looks more like hate against lowballers.

There are guides here in the forum. Do you want me to link them for you?

oldboldsummoner wrote: 2 years ago

There is absolutely no problem with making a profit, and I did not say nor imply that there is. There is, however, a problem with ripping people off. One is honest, the other is deceptive and unethical. I've seen offers that are 3 or more rune tiers lower than what the item is worth. They're looking to exploit people's ignorance.

Suppose I have an ounce of gold and have no clue what it's worth, but I want to sell it. If I offer a sale and you come and say, "I'll give you $300 for it," hoping I'm clueless, then you're ripping me off, because it's worth almost $1800 in the market right now.

I can understand why you see it unethical, in way i see it this way to (but it is also just a game i see no real value in the items here). But deceptive is the totally wrong word if you talk about ignorance. People are responsible for their own action and if take a bad offer without research is not the fault of the other side as long as they don lie or force you otherwise.

oldboldsummoner wrote: 2 years ago

There are guides here in the forum. Do you want me to link them for you?

Why for me, you said you want it to raise awareness so you should do it because of your own intention. Or is your intention not genuine and you just wanted to release some steam?

Darq wrote: 2 years ago

oldboldsummoner wrote: 2 years ago

There are guides here in the forum. Do you want me to link them for you?

Why for me, you said you want it to raise awareness so you should do it because of your own intention. Or is your intention not genuine and you just wanted to release some steam?

Edited my post, just for you.

MarcWizard wrote: 2 years ago

Flipping exists everywhere, from concert tickets to iphones to onitsuka tiger shoes to crypto to space on a freighter vessel. These people are actually performing a kind of service, where they connect an urgent seller with no time overlap with an urgent buyer, and they reap the consequent profit of the time saved by both parties. It cannot be helped that sometimes, a seller or buyer will suffer a loss that they did not intend due to ignorance, however, that ignorance is NOT the fault of the middleman, especially not in d2. There simply is no excuse for lack of market knowledge especially if trading in this website.

You make a good argument for flippers. My problem isn't with the practice of flipping per se, but with the people who try to rip off a lot of value from people who are ignorant or not very knowledgeable.

oldboldsummoner wrote: 2 years ago

Edited my post, just for you.

I find it offensive that you want to pin that on me. Put i appreciate that you added the link.

Darq wrote: 2 years ago

oldboldsummoner wrote: 2 years ago

Edited my post, just for you.

I find it offensive that you want to pin that on me. Put i appreciate that you added the link.

And I find it offensive that you were trying to paint me as just someone who "hates" (your word) lowballers, so please cut the crap.

oldboldsummoner wrote: 2 years ago

Darq wrote: 2 years ago

oldboldsummoner wrote: 2 years ago

There are guides here in the forum. Do you want me to link them for you?

Why for me, you said you want it to raise awareness so you should do it because of your own intention. Or is your intention not genuine and you just wanted to release some steam?

Edited my post, just for you.

MarcWizard wrote: 2 years ago

Flipping exists everywhere, from concert tickets to iphones to onitsuka tiger shoes to crypto to space on a freighter vessel. These people are actually performing a kind of service, where they connect an urgent seller with no time overlap with an urgent buyer, and they reap the consequent profit of the time saved by both parties. It cannot be helped that sometimes, a seller or buyer will suffer a loss that they did not intend due to ignorance, however, that ignorance is NOT the fault of the middleman, especially not in d2. There simply is no excuse for lack of market knowledge especially if trading in this website.

You make a good argument for flippers. My problem isn't with the practice of flipping per se, but with the people who try to rip off a lot of value from people who are ignorant or not very knowledgeable.

Hence i did make a caveat. On whom does the responsibility (and consequence) fall for failing to make an informed sale? This isn’t an antiquities or painting auction site. Its a trading website, replete with transaction histories and pricing guides, for a game with an economy decades old. If any ripping off is going on, thats squarely on the ignorant, or I should say, wilfully ignorant at this point. At which juncture will you finally agree that people need to take responsibility for their own Wealth and not assume that others will offer them the market average?

MarcWizard wrote: 2 years ago

Hence i did make a caveat. On whom does the responsibility (and consequence) fall for failing to make an informed sale? This isn’t an antiquities or painting auction site. Its a trading website, replete with transaction histories and pricing guides, for a game with an economy decades old. If any ripping off is going on, thats squarely on the ignorant, or I should say, wilfully ignorant at this point. At which juncture will you finally agree that people need to take responsibility for their own Wealth and not assume that others will offer them the market average?

Responsibility lies with the one with a large advantage. This isn't a duty responsibility, but more of a moral responsibility. If a great disparity is present, then exploitation can easily occur, hence being taken advantage of. To use an exaggerated example, would you sell a $2 chocolate bar to a 5 year old for the $10 his dad gave him to spend when he doesn't know he can buy 5 of those (not counting tax) at the corner store? If you said yes, because the 5 year old should have taken responsibility for his own Wealth and ignorance of prices at the local convenient store, then it would appear that you don't have an ethical problem with the kind of advantage-taking I take issue with. I'm not concerned with the why of that and I'm not here to judge anyone. I am here to try and help keep it fair for everyone. That is why we have such guides being compiled in the first place, is it not? It's to help make trades more fair for all parties involved and prevent said exploitation. I mean, what else would the point of these price guides be?

I do understand your point, however. The information is there for anyone who bothers to seek it, and it is not incumbent upon others to remind them when they're not utilizing the information available to them.

oldboldsummoner wrote: 2 years ago

And I find it offensive that you were trying to paint me as just someone who "hates" (your word) lowballers, so please cut the crap.

And why didn't you say that in the first place? I didn't had the intention to paint you as one who "hates", i said it does feel like hate, those are two different things (at least in my native language). It seem it is more of a misunderstanding here and i'm sorry that it happend. I don't want to escalate it more.

This side does a great job to reduce the possibility to make of such scams like

Ber for

Lo just by a simple click on a price check (most pages i know don't have that feature). That is one of the reason (together with the filterable database), why i like this side and donated for it. The best way to reduce scam is to get easy tools for research. But in the end everybody has to take responsibility.

oldboldsummoner wrote: 2 years ago

Responsibility lies with the one with a large advantage. This isn't a duty responsibility, but more of a moral responsibility. If a great disparity is present, then exploitation can easily occur, hence being taken advantage of. To use an exaggerated example, would you sell a $2 chocolate bar to a 5 year old for the $10 his dad gave him to spend when he doesn't know he can buy 5 of those (not counting tax) at the corner store? If you said yes, because the 5 year old should have taken responsibility for his own Wealth and ignorance of prices at the local convenient store, then it would appear that you don't have an ethical problem with the kind of advantage-taking I take issue with. I'm not concerned with the why of that and I'm not here to judge anyone. I am here to try and help keep it fair for everyone. That is why we have such guides being compiled in the first place, is it not? It's to help make trades more fair for all parties involved and prevent said exploitation. I mean, what else would the point of these price guides be?

The problem with your example is, with a 5 year old you have a total different szenario just because a 5 year old cannot hold responsible for its action (at least in my country). Should we handle all user as they where 5 years old? Also this is a game, i don't like the real-life comparison because we don't have real value here, at least not at this site.

oldboldsummoner wrote: 2 years ago

MarcWizard wrote: 2 years ago

Hence i did make a caveat. On whom does the responsibility (and consequence) fall for failing to make an informed sale? This isn’t an antiquities or painting auction site. Its a trading website, replete with transaction histories and pricing guides, for a game with an economy decades old. If any ripping off is going on, thats squarely on the ignorant, or I should say, wilfully ignorant at this point. At which juncture will you finally agree that people need to take responsibility for their own Wealth and not assume that others will offer them the market average?

Responsibility lies with the one with a large advantage. This isn't a duty responsibility, but more of a moral responsibility. If a great disparity is present, then exploitation can easily occur, hence being taken advantage of. To use an exaggerated example, would you sell a $2 chocolate bar to a 5 year old for the $10 his dad gave him to spend when he doesn't know he can buy 5 of those (not counting tax) at the corner store? If you said yes, because the 5 year old should have taken responsibility for his own Wealth and ignorance of prices at the local convenient store, then it would appear that you don't have an ethical problem with the kind of advantage-taking I take issue with. I'm not concerned with the why of that and I'm not here to judge anyone. I am here to try and help keep it fair for everyone. That is why we have such guides being compiled in the first place, is it not? It's to help make trades more fair for all parties involved and prevent said exploitation. I mean, what else would the point of these price guides be?

I do understand your point, however. The information is there for anyone who bothers to seek it, and it is not incumbent upon others to remind them when they're not utilizing the information available to them.

And who has the large advantage here? The currently ignorant person with access to market information or the lowballer with access to the same market information?

I know what you are trying to say but your analogy doesn’t work. You’re describing a child with no real way to find out what he doesn’t know because not only does he not understand the value of currency, he has no references to draw upon. Again, i have placed these scenarios out of your reach with the simple point that we are here discussing this topic on trades on this website. The market information is literally a click away. You would have a leg to stand on if referring to lowball lobbies in the game itself, but even that leg is a shaky one since nobody who has an interest in protecting his hard earned Wealth would surely engage in trading without first checking the value of what he has to offer against what he wants.

My 2 cents...

The market is over saturated on items, that sit without buyers, yet people are still asking for more than what is typically listed both here ( forums/trade-value-guide-runes-torches- ... 20668.html ) and PureDiablo ( https://www.purediablo.com/forums/threa ... dder.1953/ ). When there's a surplus of items, the price should go down, yet people asking for what is suggested in the price guides get called 'lowballers'.
Actual lowballers are (fairly) easy to deal with... If you see someone making an offer in bad Faith, you can post 'Hey, this item is worth X on average', or make a reasonable offer and outbid them. This is a trading community with price checking tools, it should stand to reason that people should use them.


IMO, the real problem is the Flippers. They are a CANCER to any games economy.
Flippers generally have a surplus of currency, that they use to not only outbid others, but it allows them to make 'money' just by having money. They make a few flips, and now they've got funding to expand into another popular item or two. Once they get a foothold, they can control the price by buying out any low priced items, then control the price so they're the only one to sell. If something's selling for 5

Ist, they can take afford to take the hit to undercut another seller. If the other seller tries to undercut them? They can just buy the item to remove the competition.

twiz wrote: 2 years ago

IMO, the real problem is the Flippers. They are a CANCER to any games economy.
Flippers generally have a surplus of currency, that they use to not only outbid others, but it allows them to make 'money' just by having money. They make a few flips, and now they've got funding to expand into another popular item or two. Once they get a foothold, they can control the price by buying out any low priced items, then control the price so they're the only one to sell. If something's selling for 5

Ist, they can take afford to take the hit to undercut another seller. If the other seller tries to undercut them? They can just buy the item to remove the competition.

i have a question but it what you describe not about flippers but more about monopolist?

Darq wrote: 2 years ago

i have a question but it what you describe not about flippers but more about monopolist?

Same thing?
Not all flippers go to the extreme of cornering the market themselves... But multiple flippers, even working against eachother, easily could.

Yet another problem, especially for new players might be, that there's a alot of sources with different price list. That's what happened to me when I started trading on this site.
I used another source for pricing and learned pretty soon that noone would ever pay me the values mentioned there.

Since this site became the only place I'm trading at, I simply run a price check before I set up a trade to figure out a price tag.