Javazon build

Cryptography wrote: 3 years ago

Fen wrote: 3 years ago

I do not use/like Ethereal Titans either.

Used to have a 2nd Titans with me but I barely run out of charges before leaving an area anyway so I stopped it.

So do you guys suggest Enigma in general for a javazone or just when farming areas where there is great distances to travel?

Enigma will definitely be best choice, no matter areas.

I see, gonna aim for that then. Will be useful to my other chars too I guess

Cryptography wrote: 3 years ago

MarcWizard wrote: 3 years ago

2. If you find your build is mana starved you can also consider switching BK to

Manald Heal. I'm using a 7% mana leech and i don't have to drink a single pot during a cow run even without Insight. (if you are still using Insight then ignore this).

I need to see this myself to believe that. Can you stream/record a single cowrun where you don't drink a single

Mana Potion?

Ethereal Titan's are extremely ineffective upgrade unless you can melt crowds in 8p game with single throw. Considering the cost, it would be last upgrade for me if at all.

Silkweave help a lot with mana issues but need high density areas to really shine (cow/cs).

You say its hard to believe my LF is mana neutral against cows, but you say in the very next sentence that upping

Eth titans are extremely ineffective. Are you aware that the mana leech is based off of your weapon damage? If you have never upped

Eth titans then of course you have never experienced not needing to drink pots, because your mana leech is ineffective.

As far as your claim that upping

Eth titans are "extremely ineffective", I'm going to copypasta my data from a reply on reddit to someone asking if

Eth titans are worth it:

"Also, people say the physical component is negligible but thats a self fulfilling prophecy: because people think that and then use +6 maiden javs, the physical component of course becomes much lower. My 182 ed upped

Eth titan on level 41

Charged Strike sees 1-6873 (avg 3436) from skill and 606-1165 on weapon (avg 885). That means weapon damage accounts for 20% of my

Charged Strike damage. It can be argued that a blue

Lance can go to +6 while titans are only +4, but that to me is just sinking more apples into the lightning basket. Upped

Eth titans have a

Jab that actually hurts, and by that i mean you can

Jab a strangler to Death in 1-2 hits, which is handy before Infinity. If you look at LF the weapon component is even more significant: 1-2720 (avg 1360) and weapon damage 683-1359 (avg 1021). 43% from the weapon! So dont sleep on

Eth titans. I carry 2, and by the time one runs low the other is back at 140, i just swap them back and forth. Not having to repair, ever, feels good."

Weapon damage accounting for 43% of the LF total damage, its not something people expect to hear.

Charged Strike and its crazy synergies do hog the majority of the damage, but the damage contribution from weapon on LF is much more significant.

You asked if i melt P8 cows, no, it takes a couple of throws. However, this is irrelevant, because as long as there is a decent group (say 6, 7 cows standing close to one another), my LF are basically mana neutral - I leech about as much mana as I spend.

Hoost07 wrote: 3 years ago

Am I the only one who hates

Eth titans? I guess I toss too much and I hate waiting for them to recharge. I always open my cow portal next to

Charsi so I can pop in and repair quickly.

Also, I know about having another one on the swap, but that doesn't work because I run a CTA on swap.

On

Eth titans, u need less tosses to kill cows. I also use CTA on swap. I manually switch javelins when one falls to about 30 shots. I have not spoken to a repair vendor after getting both

Eth titans.

The only time I ever got close to having no javelins to throw was when i surfed a P8 cow run marathon for about, 20 runs? The higher HP pools and continuous spamming finally outran the replenish.

Fen wrote: 3 years ago

Respec + Shift click on vitality... ye option to respec is a bless

that waas what i did on the 1st respec....

xSD wrote: 3 years ago

MrBarra wrote: 3 years ago

rango_jr wrote: 3 years ago

I'm not an expert in Javazons (building mine now) but from what I've seen the only thing i'd suggest is doing a respec with your gear (specifically torch and anni) equipped. You could probably take off a ton of str and dex and get a lot more life.

I accidentally waste my 2 last respecs. I was really really sleepy and messed up two times.
Was going to uninstall and everything because I got really mad with those 2 mistakes but well life goes on And I have a messed up char with messed up habilites

Can toss you a spare token to respec again if you need!

really? that would be amazing

Cryptography wrote: 3 years ago

Basically at your current gear level, no single change will completely transform your experience other than Enigma/Infinity. Both or either one will make it another character.

Post your advanced stats screen too please.

There.

Hoost07 wrote: 3 years ago

Cryptography wrote: 3 years ago

Fen wrote: 3 years ago

I do not use/like Ethereal Titans either.

Used to have a 2nd Titans with me but I barely run out of charges before leaving an area anyway so I stopped it.

So do you guys suggest Enigma in general for a javazone or just when farming areas where there is great distances to travel?

Enigma will definitely be best choice, no matter areas.

I'm considering Enigma for my Javazon as well, but my question is, where do you get the FCR from? I feel like

Teleport is so slow and with my Titans and

Boots, I'm already running so fast.

my FCR is from Spirit and arachnid. The

Teleport is still slow, you won't be racing 135 dins or sorcs. Teleporting at the 48 breakpoint is only barely faster than amazon's running with titan FRW and whatever u have on

Boots, and its actually slower than a Harmony zon. However, the point of

Teleport is to zoom thru areas where you have corridors, doorways and other tight areas. Durance 2 to

Mephisto is inefficent without Enigma. Ditto for countess runs, telebaal (although an amazon with Infinity will probably want to walk

Baal, since WSK is nice farming), tele Chaos sanc. Fetching the leg for cow portal also gets slightly faster as you can

Teleport diagonally across

Tristram like the sorcs do, but now i'm really just nitpicking. Suffice to say, being able to

Teleport opens up new farming runs that would otherwise be too cumbersome for a walker to handle.

MarcWizard wrote: 3 years ago

Cryptography wrote: 3 years ago

MarcWizard wrote: 3 years ago

2. If you find your build is mana starved you can also consider switching BK to

Manald Heal. I'm using a 7% mana leech and i don't have to drink a single pot during a cow run even without Insight. (if you are still using Insight then ignore this).

I need to see this myself to believe that. Can you stream/record a single cowrun where you don't drink a single

Mana Potion?

Ethereal Titan's are extremely ineffective upgrade unless you can melt crowds in 8p game with single throw. Considering the cost, it would be last upgrade for me if at all.

Silkweave help a lot with mana issues but need high density areas to really shine (cow/cs).

You say its hard to believe my LF is mana neutral against cows, but you say in the very next sentence that upping

Eth titans are extremely ineffective. Are you aware that the mana leech is based off of your weapon damage? If you have never upped

Eth titans then of course you have never experienced not needing to drink pots, because your mana leech is ineffective.

As far as your claim that upping

Eth titans are "extremely ineffective", I'm going to copypasta my data from a reply on reddit to someone asking if

Eth titans are worth it:

"Also, people say the physical component is negligible but thats a self fulfilling prophecy: because people think that and then use +6 maiden javs, the physical component of course becomes much lower. My 182 ed upped

Eth titan on level 41

Charged Strike sees 1-6873 (avg 3436) from skill and 606-1165 on weapon (avg 885). That means weapon damage accounts for 20% of my

Charged Strike damage. It can be argued that a blue

Lance can go to +6 while titans are only +4, but that to me is just sinking more apples into the lightning basket. Upped

Eth titans have a

Jab that actually hurts, and by that i mean you can

Jab a strangler to Death in 1-2 hits, which is handy before Infinity. If you look at LF the weapon component is even more significant: 1-2720 (avg 1360) and weapon damage 683-1359 (avg 1021). 43% from the weapon! So dont sleep on

Eth titans. I carry 2, and by the time one runs low the other is back at 140, i just swap them back and forth. Not having to repair, ever, feels good."

Weapon damage accounting for 43% of the LF total damage, its not something people expect to hear.

Charged Strike and its crazy synergies do hog the majority of the damage, but the damage contribution from weapon on LF is much more significant.

You asked if i melt P8 cows, no, it takes a couple of throws. However, this is irrelevant, because as long as there is a decent group (say 6, 7 cows standing close to one another), my LF are basically mana neutral - I leech about as much mana as I spend.

I would like to see that stream, please.

MarcWizard wrote: 3 years ago

Hoost07 wrote: 3 years ago

Cryptography wrote: 3 years ago

Fen wrote: 3 years ago

I do not use/like Ethereal Titans either.

Used to have a 2nd Titans with me but I barely run out of charges before leaving an area anyway so I stopped it.

So do you guys suggest Enigma in general for a javazone or just when farming areas where there is great distances to travel?

Enigma will definitely be best choice, no matter areas.

I'm considering Enigma for my Javazon as well, but my question is, where do you get the FCR from? I feel like

Teleport is so slow and with my Titans and

Boots, I'm already running so fast.

my FCR is from Spirit and arachnid. The

Teleport is still slow, you won't be racing 135 dins or sorcs. Teleporting at the 48 breakpoint is only barely faster than amazon's running with titan FRW and whatever u have on

Boots, and its actually slower than a Harmony zon. However, the point of

Teleport is to zoom thru areas where you have corridors, doorways and other tight areas. Durance 2 to

Mephisto is inefficent without Enigma. Ditto for countess runs, telebaal (although an amazon with Infinity will probably want to walk

Baal, since WSK is nice farming), tele Chaos sanc. Fetching the leg for cow portal also gets slightly faster as you can

Teleport diagonally across

Tristram like the sorcs do, but now i'm really just nitpicking. Suffice to say, being able to

Teleport opens up new farming runs that would otherwise be too cumbersome for a walker to handle.

Now I am even more interested about your gear choices. Care to share?

It's really not anything special.

Main: 182 upped

Eth titans (179 upped

Eth titans in cube)
offhand: Spirit
swap: cta
swapoffhand: Spirit

Helm:

Shako (

Topaz)
armor: Enigma (AP)
gloves: 2/20 rare gloves with some str

Belt: arachnid (during runs,

Razortail in stash for when walking

Baal etc)
ring1:

Manald Heal 7% ML
ring2: ravenfrost
ammy: highlord's

I don't have a stream or intend to start, but I can spare the time to make a clip off when I'm playing switch and you can see the mana globe stay full as I LF.

Before I make the vid, here's the stats on my zon. I thought you might be interested to see the comparisons between the skill and weapon damage

MarcWizard wrote: 3 years ago

It's really not anything special.

Main: 182 upped

Eth titans (179 upped

Eth titans in cube)
offhand: Spirit
swap: cta
swapoffhand: Spirit

Helm:

Shako (

Topaz)
armor: Enigma (AP)
gloves: 2/20 rare gloves with some str

Belt: arachnid (during runs,

Razortail in stash for when walking

Baal etc)
ring1:

Manald Heal 7% ML
ring2: ravenfrost
ammy: highlord's

I don't have a stream or intend to start, but I can spare the time to make a clip off when I'm playing switch and you can see the mana globe stay full as I LF.

https://d2.maxroll.gg/d2planner/ch0106l8

I tried my legacy Javazon build replacing SoJ with Manald. Didn't have to test it but I did anyway and pool was empty in seconds - with equipment that can two-shot cow crowds in P8.

I am going to need to see it myself, yes. If you have some time, do upload a clip, please.

Here you go. You can actually see the mana refill after I

Teleport. So if the group is big enough it isnt just neutral, its mana positive.



edit: having a hard time making this media link work. I am able to click thru now, let me know if you can't.

Cryptography wrote: 3 years ago

MarcWizard wrote: 3 years ago

2. If you find your build is mana starved you can also consider switching BK to

Manald Heal. I'm using a 7% mana leech and i don't have to drink a single pot during a cow run even without Insight. (if you are still using Insight then ignore this).

I need to see this myself to believe that. Can you stream/record a single cowrun where you don't drink a single

Mana Potion?

Ethereal Titan's are extremely ineffective upgrade unless you can melt crowds in 8p game with single throw. Considering the cost, it would be last upgrade for me if at all.

Silkweave help a lot with mana issues but need high density areas to really shine (cow/cs).

I hope with all the evidence above you can finally recant these 2 statements. I'm surprised with an editor you would say that upping

Eth titans is ineffective. Extremely, even. The damage increase is plain to see. Regarding the mana issue, its probably the total mana pool. I'm working with 454/691 before/after 4BO, and you're at 260 before. Spirit adds about 100 to mana,

Harlequin Crest an additional 140. If you're playing p8, mana after kill will never be enough. It has to be mana leech.

MarcWizard wrote: 3 years ago

Cryptography wrote: 3 years ago

MarcWizard wrote: 3 years ago

2. If you find your build is mana starved you can also consider switching BK to

Manald Heal. I'm using a 7% mana leech and i don't have to drink a single pot during a cow run even without Insight. (if you are still using Insight then ignore this).

I need to see this myself to believe that. Can you stream/record a single cowrun where you don't drink a single

Mana Potion?

Ethereal Titan's are extremely ineffective upgrade unless you can melt crowds in 8p game with single throw. Considering the cost, it would be last upgrade for me if at all.

Silkweave help a lot with mana issues but need high density areas to really shine (cow/cs).

I hope with all the evidence above you can finally recant these 2 statements. I'm surprised with an editor you would say that upping

Eth titans is ineffective. Extremely, even. The damage increase is plain to see. Regarding the mana issue, its probably the total mana pool. I'm working with 454/691 before/after 4BO, and you're at 260 before. Spirit adds about 100 to mana,

Harlequin Crest an additional 140. If you're playing p8, mana after kill will never be enough. It has to be mana leech.

with

Harlequin Crest (

Sur'd for %max mana), Spirit,

Manald Heal and BO, I get 787 mana in pool. I must say, even though I do not get the same results (possibly due to playstyle), this might be a sufficient way to deal with most of the mana problems but you'll miss out on Griffon's which is a huge damage booster (70k more dmg per second with CS, 4k per sec with LF - to Hell Cow), you'll fall under 50/52 IAS breakpoint (you can socket

Harlequin Crest with IAS jewel). Also, equipping upped Titan's will require some dexterity to be statted and with ethereal, you'll lose the ability to repair.

BUT, and it is funny in itself, even cows want me to use

Silkweave because Cow King dropped me a pair of 190ED ones first time I did a run with your setup. To add to topic, wearing both

Silkweave and Manald really kept the pool full even when switching back to Griffon's - similar to your video.

In conclusion - I will admit mana leech can be helpful in some cases and gear options. I would not rely on it purely, neither do I usually rely on mana per kill but have Phoenix on switch with CTA.

Early game, you are better off boosting your damage and survivability though instead of worrying about using mana potions. Hence I would still suggest upgrading to Ethereal Titan's to be a last, if at all, upgrade. Such as, Enigma > Infinity > Griffon's > ...... >

Annihilus >

Eth Up'd Titan's.

More interesting note - what is rest of your gear (

Boots, inventory) and did you use arach or razor in that clip?

I must say I am quite disappointed that even the video couldn't turn you around. After all, you had to see to believe, right?

My

Boots are gore riders. I don't see a reason to use

Silkweave since, as you have observed, I am already not reliant on mana potions.

Belt is Arach, to hit 48 FCR breakpoint. I do have T-gods and

Razortail as back up, but at this time I do not feel the need to reduce my QoL for additional damage. The clip explains this quite adequately.

RE: Damage boost with griffons - Diablo already goes down in 2 hits, cows already melt. I don't see a huge reason to change the source of 74% MF. Maybe if they introduce Greater Rifts or something. Then it'd be time to dig deep and chug mana pots when necessary. When FARMING, however, I am all about that QoL. I dont have to visit a vendor and repair, I dont have to manage potions in my

Belt. I kill,

Teleport, kill, repeat.

RE: Upgrading

Eth titans as a last upgrade - its a

Pul rune. Your placing it after

Jah

Ber,

Ber

Ber, and a bunch of other, much more expensive upgrades looks like you're dying on this hill, and I'm not sure why. Its a

Pul rune. Use your editor, look at the difference in average damage between upped and non-upped. And multiply that by your attack speed.

RE: losing the ability to repair? Repair? What's that? Javazons don't need to repair. They fire until one

Eth titan runs low, swap to the other one from the cube, repeat. I have forgotten what repair is. You want this "ability" to repair, go ahead. Use a lower damage weapon that you can enjoy repairing. I honestly cannot understand you at this point. Do you understand, I have not HAD to repair since I started farming my Enigma through Infinity?

Jah

Ber

Ber

Ber worth of farming, and I never repaired once. Is that a disability?

RE: Mana leech being helpful in some cases: No, Mana leech is helpful all the time. Because my mana doesn't run down, I don't have to manage potions. As in, I never have to pick pots off the floor or go to a vendor to top up. I don't have to THINK about this resource, it is invisible to me. I can throw LF indefinitely. This means uninterrupted farming, i only care about looting gear and runes. I don't have to check my

Belt, I dont have to worry about no mana potions dropping, I dont have to TP if I run out. This translates to faster runs.

Rest of Gear:

Boots are gore riders as discussed. Gear is still MF mode: my SC are 7 MF with some perks where available, such as cold dmg etc. GCs are skillers as usual. I'm still carrying my cube and leaving space for loot both, again for QoL. When farming on switch, you cant loot directly into cube.

Conclusion: Upped

Eth titans are one of the first, NOT the last, upgrades I would heartily recommend to any growing Javazon, they are what we call low hanging fruit. You will easily procure the equivalent value of 2 upped

Eth titans (180 ed, not 200 ed which is truly the gg) along the journey to the first Enigma - heck, the first

Jah. The subsequent substantial increase in weapon damage results in a competent mana leech which will eliminate one of the maintenance aspects of potions, while having a pair eliminates the other maintenance aspect of repair. This time will go to killing more things. The numbers: 1

Eth titan at 180 ed for approx

Ist, upping for

Pul, puts the cost of 2x 180 ED upped E titans at just above 2

Ist, while

Jah's value is at 18-19

Ist, and

Ber 26

Ist. To put this upgrade off until the equivalent upgrade of literally 100's

Ist of value does not make any sense.

MarcWizard wrote: 3 years ago

I must say I am quite disappointed that even the video couldn't turn you around. After all, you had to see to believe, right?

My

Boots are gore riders. I don't see a reason to use

Silkweave since, as you have observed, I am already not reliant on mana potions.

Belt is Arach, to hit 48 FCR breakpoint. I do have T-gods and

Razortail as back up, but at this time I do not feel the need to reduce my QoL for additional damage. The clip explains this quite adequately.

RE: Damage boost with griffons - Diablo already goes down in 2 hits, cows already melt. I don't see a huge reason to change the source of 74% MF. Maybe if they introduce Greater Rifts or something. Then it'd be time to dig deep and chug mana pots when necessary. When FARMING, however, I am all about that QoL. I dont have to visit a vendor and repair, I dont have to manage potions in my

Belt. I kill,

Teleport, kill, repeat.

RE: Upgrading

Eth titans as a last upgrade - its a

Pul rune. Your placing it after

Jah

Ber,

Ber

Ber, and a bunch of other, much more expensive upgrades looks like you're dying on this hill, and I'm not sure why. Its a

Pul rune. Use your editor, look at the difference in average damage between upped and non-upped. And multiply that by your attack speed.

RE: losing the ability to repair? Repair? What's that? Javazons don't need to repair. They fire until one

Eth titan runs low, swap to the other one from the cube, repeat. I have forgotten what repair is. You want this "ability" to repair, go ahead. Use a lower damage weapon that you can enjoy repairing. I honestly cannot understand you at this point. Do you understand, I have not HAD to repair since I started farming my Enigma through Infinity?

Jah

Ber

Ber

Ber worth of farming, and I never repaired once. Is that a disability?

RE: Mana leech being helpful in some cases: No, Mana leech is helpful all the time. Because my mana doesn't run down, I don't have to manage potions. As in, I never have to pick pots off the floor or go to a vendor to top up. I don't have to THINK about this resource, it is invisible to me. I can throw LF indefinitely. This means uninterrupted farming, i only care about looting gear and runes. I don't have to check my

Belt, I dont have to worry about no mana potions dropping, I dont have to TP if I run out. This translates to faster runs.

Rest of Gear:

Boots are gore riders as discussed. Gear is still MF mode: my SC are 7 MF with some perks where available, such as cold dmg etc. GCs are skillers as usual. I'm still carrying my cube and leaving space for loot both, again for QoL. When farming on switch, you cant loot directly into cube.

Conclusion: Upped

Eth titans are one of the first, NOT the last, upgrades I would heartily recommend to any growing Javazon, they are what we call low hanging fruit. You will easily procure the equivalent value of 2 upped

Eth titans (180 ed, not 200 ed which is truly the gg) along the journey to the first Enigma - heck, the first

Jah. The subsequent substantial increase in weapon damage results in a competent mana leech which will eliminate one of the maintenance aspects of potions, while having a pair eliminates the other maintenance aspect of repair. This time will go to killing more things. The numbers: 1

Eth titan at 180 ed for approx

Ist, upping for

Pul, puts the cost of 2x 180 ED upped E titans at just above 2

Ist, while

Jah's value is at 18-19

Ist, and

Ber 26

Ist. To put this upgrade off until the equivalent upgrade of literally 100's

Ist of value does not make any sense.

I don't have a full day to type out a reply but for whatever reason, following your footsteps did not replicate your results. I would run out of mana, not as easily but still would. I definitely could not finish a single run without mana potions. I will make an exact replica of ypur build later and see if it is any different but unlikely.

I do find that peculiar. Yes, perhaps try the exact same configuration. Playstyle probably has nothing to do with it, i mean, what else is there to do but LF big groups, carry on to the next group? I cant think of any other reason…. Deadly strike? Maybe my deadly strike trigger doubling my weapon damage leeches the mana harder?

Is Fortitude considered a good Armor for the Javazon because of %ED? Or does that not really apply to the lightning damage directly. I just started a Javazon and appreciate all the info in this thread!

kg_tho wrote: 3 years ago

Is Fortitude considered a good Armor for the Javazon because of %ED? Or does that not really apply to the lightning damage directly. I just started a Javazon and appreciate all the info in this thread!

Only physical damage, hence useless for lf/cs zon.

Mine just got through Hell Act I. I don't have Griffons or Infinity. Currently running Peace, Upped non-

Eth titans, Spirit,

Razortail, Valk Wing, Aldurs

Boots, +3 gloves (no IAS yet),

Raven Frost,

Dwarf Star, and Maras.

Do you think it would be worth trying to trade

Ber for a Griffons (would that get me enough to at least break the immunity) or should i hold out and try to get either Enigma to run around them or keep looking and go for Infinity?