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1

About Attack Frames, Next Hit Delay and the Martial Arts Assassin

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2

Description

I'm currently blasting through normal on ladder with my new martial arts assassin and I started wondering.
I know that out of the elemental MA skills only
Claws of Thunder
and
Phoenix Strike
have next hit delay - both are in the 4 frames group. I also know that the fastest achievable frames for
Dragon Claw
are 4 frames for the first and 6 frames for the second claw. So assuming three charges of CoT I hit with the first claw and trigger the third charge and then hit with the second claw to trigger the second charge.
Now if the hit takes place at the end of the animation there is a gap of 6 frames between the first and second claw - everything is fine.
If the hit takes place at the beginning of the animation there is a gap of 4 frames - not so sure if everything is fine.
If the hit takes place somewhere during the animation the resulting gap is between 0 and 10 frames - this case would be a bit strange but who knows (definitely not me).
So my question is if hits are generally at the end of their animation or somewhere else along the animation?

Also on a somewhat related note, I noticed that the charges of CoT are stacked meaning that the third charge triggers the effects of all charges. In our example above the two hits from DC are triggering the third CoT effect (
Charged Bolt
) once and the second and first effect twice (
Nova
and lightning damage). This is very visible for CoT but not so much for Fist of Fire (I have not tested
Blades of Ice
because, honestly, who cares). I would very much appreciate it if someone has confirmation whether this effect is observable for all the elemental claw attacks or if CoT is an outlier. Might test this myself if someone were willing to help me.
Description by Thirodil
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7
I'm currently blasting through normal on ladder with my new martial arts assassin and I started wondering.
I know that out of the elemental MA skills only
Claws of Thunder
and
Phoenix Strike
have next hit delay - both are in the 4 frames group. I also know that the fastest achievable frames for
Dragon Claw
are 4 frames for the first and 6 frames for the second claw. So assuming three charges of CoT I hit with the first claw and trigger the third charge and then hit with the second claw to trigger the second charge.
Now if the hit takes place at the end of the animation there is a gap of 6 frames between the first and second claw - everything is fine.
If the hit takes place at the beginning of the animation there is a gap of 4 frames - not so sure if everything is fine.
If the hit takes place somewhere during the animation the resulting gap is between 0 and 10 frames - this case would be a bit strange but who knows (definitely not me).
So my question is if hits are generally at the end of their animation or somewhere else along the animation?

Also on a somewhat related note, I noticed that the charges of CoT are stacked meaning that the third charge triggers the effects of all charges. In our example above the two hits from DC are triggering the third CoT effect (
Charged Bolt
) once and the second and first effect twice (
Nova
and lightning damage). This is very visible for CoT but not so much for Fist of Fire (I have not tested
Blades of Ice
because, honestly, who cares). I would very much appreciate it if someone has confirmation whether this effect is observable for all the elemental claw attacks or if CoT is an outlier. Might test this myself if someone were willing to help me.
7
User avatar

wale 39

Druid PC
Maxroll's damage calculator usually lists the "Action Frame": where in the animation frame count that the hit occurs. As for the stacking charges on
Claws of Thunder
, that is indeed what I heard: elemental charges will stack. I'm not sure if that works for
Tiger Strike
though, and I would be curious myself if 3 charges of
Tiger Strike
was 3x stronger than 1
Charge
7
OP
Alright, thanks!

I don‘t think thats the case based on the fact that there is a mechanical distinction between left row MA skills and middle row MA skills.
Phoenix Strike
charges do not stack and thus
Tiger Strike
and
Cobra Strike
charges should also not stack.
But I have not tested this, just speculating (with the same argument I could have deduced that all elemental claw skills stack and I wasn‘t sure about that either).
7
Since I've chosed Phoenix assa to start ladder I went into Phoenix and Tail route to use every weapon I find and to control which element I'm unleashing. Just a thought to think about.
7
OP
I can confirm now that
Fists of Fire
also stack - I was slowed enough to see the explosion and the damage of the individual attacks during one instance of
Dragon Claw
. Roughly the same damage was applied when I wasn't slowed and the animation of the explosions and the healthbar overlapped.

Chasodey wrote: 1 year ago
Since I've chosed Phoenix assa to start ladder I went into Phoenix and Tail route to use every weapon I find and to control which element I'm unleashing. Just a thought to think about.
I played around with
Phoenix Strike
builds on the PTR (single player) but while I think the skill is awesome and really fun I found it too awkward to use. Instead I went with a FoF/CoT hybrid which has less micromanagement while still not being a brain dead build. Plus I can rock dual
Claws
(and Natalyas (and Plague)) which I always wanted to do.
9

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