Patch 3.3

kerph wrote: 6 hours ago

[..]
Shape-wise i think moving some of the power out of DoT to buff the damage on-hit instead would make them less crazy for pre-casting underneath Herald spawns/ Baal waves and better for single targets. I think it would make more sense in general given the art and theming of Miasma Chain as locking down and suffocating a single target vs Abyss which reads as the obvious choice for aoe

Just thematically it feels wrong that this skill is so strong to be cast over an area rather than directly chaining an enemy down

I'm inclined to agree. But if chains is to become a proper "on-hit, focus target" skill, rather than the "prepped aoe" it is now, then it would also need to be changed to behave in a way that would actually allow for proper target focusing. I.e. collision with hostile units would also need to be removed so that chains always hit the target you cast them on, even if that target is in the middle of a pack.

kerph wrote: 6 hours ago

Schnorki wrote: 6 hours ago

I'm inclined to agree. But if chains is to become a proper "on-hit, focus target" skill, rather than the "prepped aoe" it is now, then it would also need to be changed to behave in a way that would actually allow for proper target focusing. I.e. collision with hostile units would also need to be removed so that chains always hit the target you cast them on, even if that target is in the middle of a pack.

Would be nice change for sure. I don't mind that pre-casting is an option with chains, i hope they wouldn't kill it's usefulness entirely, i think it's actually a really cool facet of the skill but that it's SO strong atm is not really intuitive

Not mutually exclusive.
If all they did was to..
- Move part of the DPS dmg into on-hit
- Remove collision for all mobs unless specifically targeted

Then you could still pre-cast as it is now.
And if you're facing mobs already there, you could focus cast whatever elite sits in the middle, rather than chains getting stuck on the trash surrounding it.

That way, you get the same pre-casting but with far less overkill aoe DPS.
And you'd get a proper single-target skill at the same time (which would be nice, seeing how magic Chaos locks really don't have one atm).

I'd be in favor of dropping the magic damage benefit of Consume at level 1 and increasing it with each level of the skill. Consume should demand 20 points from Chaos casters.

I’m going to sidetrack the topic a bit. I just started an Abyss lock. Maybe I don’t understand how chain work, but how is everyone playing it without Teleport or Blade Warp?

Putting chain down and running toward monster has been.. not so great. Getting hit and stuck in recovery I suppose. Sometime clicking a monster, the chain disappears or it will surround the monster and do no damage at all.

Of course after getting Blade Warp, everything changed, but I was just wondering how everyone else was experiencing it.

Atomicharmony24 wrote: 2 hours ago

I’m going to sidetrack the topic a bit. I just started an Abyss lock. Maybe I don’t understand how chain work, but how is everyone playing it without Teleport or Blade Warp?

Putting chain down and running toward monster has been.. not so great. Getting hit and stuck in recovery I suppose. Sometime clicking a monster, the chain disappears or it will surround the monster and do no damage at all.

Of course after getting Blade Warp, everything changed, but I was just wondering how everyone else was experiencing it.

The usual tactic is to drag the chain behind you and let the monsters chase you through it.

lol so we never actually run by them? Dang I’ve been playing it wrong

Atomicharmony24 wrote: 2 hours ago

lol so we never actually run by them? Dang I’ve been playing it wrong

When you have TP (or warp), the strategy is to throw a bunch of chains at the closest members of the pack and then Teleport across so that the chains overlap the rest. But early on, dragging them behind you is very effective. Here's Mr. LLama doing it. The video is time coded to start at gameplay that shows this, watch till about 43:08 to get the gist of it. Llama actually talks about this strategy explicitly but it will take me too long to find that.

Thank you all.

Atomicharmony24 wrote: 2 hours ago

I’m going to sidetrack the topic a bit. I just started an Abyss lock. Maybe I don’t understand how chain work, but how is everyone playing it without Teleport or Blade Warp?

Putting chain down and running toward monster has been.. not so great. Getting hit and stuck in recovery I suppose. Sometime clicking a monster, the chain disappears or it will surround the monster and do no damage at all.

Of course after getting Blade Warp, everything changed, but I was just wondering how everyone else was experiencing it.

Also, with heralds and baalwave spawns, just cast them across the Ground where they are going to appear and they immediately start taking massive damage from 10 chains at once--can also time it just right to cast an Abyss right where they spawn. With lethargy beneath them as well, they basically just disintegrate.

Once your Abyss is high enough, just use your demon + defiler and Abyss to clear trash as you go from elite pack to elite pack, and do just as @Rhaegar86 said: Abyss to group pack and spam chains all over them.

Very safe gameplay. Nothing should get within 5 yards of you. For places like Durance, throw Abyss and lethargy around every corner to keep the dolls at bay.

Dragging them behind you is a waste of time.

If you have tele, you chain at your feet and tele to the other side.

If you don't, you chain past the pack along the side, as close to it as possible while still having the chain end behind the pack and then take 1 step to the side so the chains immediately fry all of them. None of that silly "waiting for them to run after you".

Schnorki wrote: 1 hour ago

Dragging them behind you is a waste of time.

Or it's the opposite. It's the fastest, and is the preference of speedrunners. At least until TP.

departure wrote: 1 hour ago

Schnorki wrote: 1 hour ago

Dragging them behind you is a waste of time.

Or it's the opposite. It's the fastest, and is the preference of speedrunners. At least until TP.

Ok...define "drag behind you".

I'm assuming the actual full "cast and kill" process with relation to chains. "Dragging behind you" as part of that would (at least in my mind) imply you cast, then run past the pack and then angle across so they actually overlap. I.e. chain starts "ahead of the pack" and then gets dragged behind you as you run past them. All that'd do is increase the time before the chains start to hit anything -> increase expiration -> lower DPS -> more re-casting/repeats -> wasted time -> bad juju.

If instead you're talking about having the mobs chase you and simply casting the chain behind you so they step on it then yeah, that is faster than the above interpretation. I just wouldn't refer to that as "dragging behind you" since the dragging in that case is a somewhat unimportant side effect as the anchor point does all the work. But that might indeed be where interpretations differ.
Though that's really only valid for quick-to-die trash. I'm equally assuming proper variable farming (perhaps incorrectly) in which case you'll come across plenty of packs you can't just bait to Death without artificially slowing down too much (-> still wasting time). Angling across remains the fastest approach there. Either from still behind or to the side of the pack (depending on where you're going next). Either way, being ahead and killing stuff behind you (by whichever approach) is always bad juju in any "I also want loot" situation since every drop will then have you actively backtrack -> wasting time again.

Schnorki wrote: 1 hour ago

Ok...define "drag behind you".

I literally posted a video of a speedrunner doing it to give an example of what I meant.