That can be useful for a tesladin to use Dracul's Grasp at full speed replacing Laying of Hands for example.
Can't wait to try
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Schnorki
Can be used to make Runewords:
Hustle for a Frenzy act 5 merc in addition to Sazabi's Grand Tribute enable a cool lv3 fanatism with 20%ias and a run speed we never seen before.
That can be useful for a tesladin to use Dracul's Grasp at full speed replacing Laying of Hands for example.
Can't wait to try
That can be useful for a tesladin to use Dracul's Grasp at full speed replacing Laying of Hands for example.
Can't wait to try
I am offline player.
So every Terra Zones can drop me every item in the game ? So its like Hell Pits ?
So every Terra Zones can drop me every item in the game ? So its like Hell Pits ?
Yes and no. TZ level scales based on your char lvl. Once you're high enough, yes, area/monster lvl is high enough to drop nearly everything. They then become superior to pits and the like quite quickly because they scale higher, meaning not only more xp but also that the good stuff can drop from every mob and not just champs.
"Nearly" because some pieces obviously still won't drop as they're tied to specific mobs, not to level and the like (anni, torches, ...).
"Nearly" because some pieces obviously still won't drop as they're tied to specific mobs, not to level and the like (anni, torches, ...).
It’s better cause the monsters are above lvl 85.Muniek wrote: 2 years ago I am offline player.
So every Terra Zones can drop me every item in the game ? So its like Hell Pits ?
So you can get drops of lvl 89 as said.
Love to see if there’s a difference…
goodluck, and may the RNG god be with you.
I know you are very passionate on this topic (In a good way!) and I do not disagree with any of your rational logic or approach here. To be fair, the BoS timer from 9 to 1 definitely is a nuisance for sure. I tried to look at this update as a good interoperable balance if you were to use Hustle Armor as well, but we do know that won't always be the case during progression.Schnorki wrote: 2 years agoThe "buff" side of things only applies at early mid-gear levels though. Hustle as a leveling solution got a solid buff there, no question about it. Not just for bowzons (or plenty of other phys builds rly) but also for funky alternative uses like a cheap fana Iron Golem or low fana merc. Lvl 1 kinda blows, but it still beats lvl 0.Th3ory wrote: 2 years ago Well for most non-Bowzons it was used mostly as pre-buff so they wanted to "balance" to make it more applicable. I called out in my video how massive this now is for Necro Summoners as an early cheap Beast. So it certainly opened up.
BoS lvl 9 IAS was 44% and now at level 1 drops to 21%, but add in level 1 Fanta and you gain an additional 14% IAS on top of the ED/AR modifiers. So net-net you are left with 36% IAS - yes this drops some of your action frames, but you gain on the other side of Fanta, plus the min/max upgrade of the overall ED% on Hustle. So I do think it depends how you look at this overall. Is it a nerf, objectively I can see it through that lens, but conversely, I do think this is a well balanced weapon.
Now, if you combine this with Hustle Armor which gained 20% on the IAS you can help compensate for the "nerf" from BoS.
For those that know Warren and his new IAC calc he already updated it with 2.6 - him and I just caught up and he concurs on his view of Hustle similar to me as a buff vs. a nerf when you look at it holistically. The FPA loss is marginal and you can see it on his calculator.
What I personally was looking forward to though (quite a bit) was actually using Hustle as a proper endgame switch, effectively being an offensive weapon-switch equivalent to Treachery. Given, proc-based pre-buffing wasn't ideal to begin with but the gain at lvl 9 BoS definitely made up for it, especially as a bowzon, offering a significant boost to overall performance and more importantly fun. And I dare say that noone in their right mind would argue that bowzons are so OP that that couldn't be accepted. Given, they're also not so broken that it would've been essential..but still. More fun without leading to game-breaking OP performance = good thing!
That end-game use was really contingent on 3 things.
1) A duration long enough to make it worth the proc-investment.
2) Enough of a boost to IAS to make it actually offer a solid performance gain.
3) (Most importantly) Enough of a boost to run speed to make it worth it on that front.
#1 now drops by a massive minute and 36 seconds. That's a huge loss. And down to a measly 2 minutes uptime..anyone who ever rolled a +1 CtA knows how pathetic that is and how often you end up not even using it to begin with because of that. And that's on a self-buff. With a proc-buff, that's just even worse.
#2 goes from "take what is normally a 9 frame bow to 7 frames while still freeing up gear slots for things not focused on IAS" to "save 1 socket at best but only get to 8 frames, not 7". That, too is a massive loss compared to what it was.
And #3 goes from 51 run speed to 23. That's gigantic for a build that is entirely reliant on run speed as a proper bowzon is one of the few things without Teleport. And considering just how much time you spend running (especially in group play), this was the true winning piece of Hustle before. Not only because it makes things massively more fun but because - at least in zones with largely open areas like CS - you were actually finally able to keep up in a run full of teleporting people with solid clear speed. Now, you're back to Harmony on swich instead, also taking you right back to barely keeping up and definitely not doing any dmg/offering any contribution whatsoever in those runs because by the time you get there, stuff is dead and you won't send off any mid-run multis because with Harmony over a real bow, that's really not even worth it. Going from 51 to 23 while Harmony still sits at 36 run is a very easy "hell no" for Hustle.
It may not sound like much if you look at the actual absolute run speed difference. But if you actually play it and contrast neither to Harmony to the original Hustle, you very clearly see how much of a difference that really makes and how baaaarely, if at all, you even keep up with Harmony today with 0 room for anything but running.
Early mid-game...yes. Cute new leveling alternative. Though I remain curious as to how many people ever actually even bother with that level of play. Based on the games available at any given time, that number has to be pretty close to 0.
For anything other than that, these changes take Hustle right back from "BiS switch for a handful specific builds" to "yet another thing to completely ignore and never bother with".
Yes, I'll still love my bowzon without it. And yes, I'll still die on the WF hill side of the (now still never-ending after all) discussion. But I would have genuinely loved for her to finally keep up in TZs while actually also contributing. But nope...right back to solo play only and/or useless leeching at best.
While yes there was a reduction in FPA, I liked the cross-balance with min/max increased, AR increased, and IAS on Fanta not having diminishing returns. I felt it was a healthy middle-Ground vs. an outright Nerf. But I also always see both sides of the aisle and can understand the Bow's POV that this was not an optimal changes in some perspectives.
FWIW, I am a Windforce fan boy so I'll die on that hill with you my friend.
Thank you for all your thoughts on this Schnorki - always love everyone's objective lens.
Item based auras don't gain from +skill so you'd still be looking at a lvl 1 Fanaticism if combining it with full sazabi's. Lvl 2 if you have him dual-wield Hustle instead.Mattamore wrote: 2 years ago Hustle for a Frenzy act 5 merc in addition to Sazabi's Grand Tribute enable a cool lv3 fanatism with 20%ias and a run speed we never seen before.
That can be useful for a tesladin to use Dracul's Grasp at full speed replacing Laying of Hands for example.
Can't wait to try
Oh, fully agreed, albeit with the "during progression" being the critical piece. For lvling/progression, Hustle got improved significantly. At that stage, you generally spend more time fighting than you do running so losing some (inherently lower anyways) run speed while gaining more ED and the like is certainly a very solid trade-off. Though ED adjustments alone would've done that as well.Th3ory wrote: 2 years agoI know you are very passionate on this topic (In a good way!) and I do not disagree with any of your rational logic or approach here. To be fair, the BoS timer from 9 to 1 definitely is a nuisance for sure. I tried to look at this update as a good interoperable balance if you were to use Hustle Armor as well, but we do know that won't always be the case during progression.
While yes there was a reduction in FPA, I liked the cross-balance with min/max increased, AR increased, and IAS on Fanta not having diminishing returns. I felt it was a healthy middle-Ground vs. an outright Nerf. But I also always see both sides of the aisle and can understand the Bow's POV that this was not an optimal changes in some perspectives.
Once you hit higher tier gear though, a pathetic 200ed bow won't cut it, defaulting it to switch-for-buff-at-best, at which point it becomes a matter of buff efficiency and (for a bowzon) primarily run speed more than anything else. And for that, sadly, it is now pretty much pointless.
Ignoring for a second the buff it would've been to my zon and even ignoring the flat out increase in fun due to the glorious (run) speed, I was honestly looking forward to it as a general addition. Everyone and their mom has a CtA on switch for defensive purposes. Feels like everyone and their mom (while lacking gear) has a Treachery in their stash for defensive purposes. But offensive switch/pre-buff choices? They hardly exist. Especially not actually worthwhile ones. Was rather hoping that would finally change. Bowzon was merely the prime example of how it could be good, but certainly not the only one.
This one's sad for me:
Blizzard wrote:DruidI really enjoyed that Shockwave druid, it's fun to play.
Fixed an underlying issue that caused the Druid's Shockwave skill to do an unintended amount of damage.
Developer’s Note: We wanted to implement targeted changes and buffs for the Druid instead of having a particular Druid build be strong because of a bug.
All prices negotiable. BIN always wins. Americas (Pacific), but int'l trade times can be arranged.
I'm rushing to Schnorki's side. windforce4life - true 'til Death *raises fist*Th3ory wrote: 2 years agoI know you are very passionate on this topic (In a good way!) and I do not disagree with any of your rational logic or approach here. To be fair, the BoS timer from 9 to 1 definitely is a nuisance for sure. I tried to look at this update as a good interoperable balance if you were to use Hustle Armor as well, but we do know that won't always be the case during progression.Schnorki wrote: 2 years agoThe "buff" side of things only applies at early mid-gear levels though. Hustle as a leveling solution got a solid buff there, no question about it. Not just for bowzons (or plenty of other phys builds rly) but also for funky alternative uses like a cheap fana Iron Golem or low fana merc. Lvl 1 kinda blows, but it still beats lvl 0.Th3ory wrote: 2 years ago Well for most non-Bowzons it was used mostly as pre-buff so they wanted to "balance" to make it more applicable. I called out in my video how massive this now is for Necro Summoners as an early cheap Beast. So it certainly opened up.
BoS lvl 9 IAS was 44% and now at level 1 drops to 21%, but add in level 1 Fanta and you gain an additional 14% IAS on top of the ED/AR modifiers. So net-net you are left with 36% IAS - yes this drops some of your action frames, but you gain on the other side of Fanta, plus the min/max upgrade of the overall ED% on Hustle. So I do think it depends how you look at this overall. Is it a nerf, objectively I can see it through that lens, but conversely, I do think this is a well balanced weapon.
Now, if you combine this with Hustle Armor which gained 20% on the IAS you can help compensate for the "nerf" from BoS.
For those that know Warren and his new IAC calc he already updated it with 2.6 - him and I just caught up and he concurs on his view of Hustle similar to me as a buff vs. a nerf when you look at it holistically. The FPA loss is marginal and you can see it on his calculator.
What I personally was looking forward to though (quite a bit) was actually using Hustle as a proper endgame switch, effectively being an offensive weapon-switch equivalent to Treachery. Given, proc-based pre-buffing wasn't ideal to begin with but the gain at lvl 9 BoS definitely made up for it, especially as a bowzon, offering a significant boost to overall performance and more importantly fun. And I dare say that noone in their right mind would argue that bowzons are so OP that that couldn't be accepted. Given, they're also not so broken that it would've been essential..but still. More fun without leading to game-breaking OP performance = good thing!
That end-game use was really contingent on 3 things.
1) A duration long enough to make it worth the proc-investment.
2) Enough of a boost to IAS to make it actually offer a solid performance gain.
3) (Most importantly) Enough of a boost to run speed to make it worth it on that front.
#1 now drops by a massive minute and 36 seconds. That's a huge loss. And down to a measly 2 minutes uptime..anyone who ever rolled a +1 CtA knows how pathetic that is and how often you end up not even using it to begin with because of that. And that's on a self-buff. With a proc-buff, that's just even worse.
#2 goes from "take what is normally a 9 frame bow to 7 frames while still freeing up gear slots for things not focused on IAS" to "save 1 socket at best but only get to 8 frames, not 7". That, too is a massive loss compared to what it was.
And #3 goes from 51 run speed to 23. That's gigantic for a build that is entirely reliant on run speed as a proper bowzon is one of the few things without Teleport. And considering just how much time you spend running (especially in group play), this was the true winning piece of Hustle before. Not only because it makes things massively more fun but because - at least in zones with largely open areas like CS - you were actually finally able to keep up in a run full of teleporting people with solid clear speed. Now, you're back to Harmony on swich instead, also taking you right back to barely keeping up and definitely not doing any dmg/offering any contribution whatsoever in those runs because by the time you get there, stuff is dead and you won't send off any mid-run multis because with Harmony over a real bow, that's really not even worth it. Going from 51 to 23 while Harmony still sits at 36 run is a very easy "hell no" for Hustle.
It may not sound like much if you look at the actual absolute run speed difference. But if you actually play it and contrast neither to Harmony to the original Hustle, you very clearly see how much of a difference that really makes and how baaaarely, if at all, you even keep up with Harmony today with 0 room for anything but running.
Early mid-game...yes. Cute new leveling alternative. Though I remain curious as to how many people ever actually even bother with that level of play. Based on the games available at any given time, that number has to be pretty close to 0.
For anything other than that, these changes take Hustle right back from "BiS switch for a handful specific builds" to "yet another thing to completely ignore and never bother with".
Yes, I'll still love my bowzon without it. And yes, I'll still die on the WF hill side of the (now still never-ending after all) discussion. But I would have genuinely loved for her to finally keep up in TZs while actually also contributing. But nope...right back to solo play only and/or useless leeching at best.
While yes there was a reduction in FPA, I liked the cross-balance with min/max increased, AR increased, and IAS on Fanta not having diminishing returns. I felt it was a healthy middle-Ground vs. an outright Nerf. But I also always see both sides of the aisle and can understand the Bow's POV that this was not an optimal changes in some perspectives.
FWIW, I am a Windforce fan boy so I'll die on that hill with you my friend.
Thank you for all your thoughts on this Schnorki - always love everyone's objective lens.
Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago Yes and no. TZ level scales based on your char lvl. Once you're high enough, yes, area/monster lvl is high enough to drop nearly everything. They then become superior to pits and the like quite quickly because they scale higher, meaning not only more xp but also that the good stuff can drop from every mob and not just champs.
"Nearly" because some pieces obviously still won't drop as they're tied to specific mobs, not to level and the like (anni, torches, ...).
It will be interesting to check it with "playersx" command.
Im above lvl 89 so its going to be ok.
I do want to point out that the way players use Call To Arms and Treachery do not follow the developers' intentions for those runewords. The original devs just never really cared about the consequences. Both Blizzard North and ATVI didn't think outside the box about how runewords could be used beyond their intended purpose. However, ATVI has PTR, and despite them not providing clear enough communication about what is or isn't in scope for player evaluation, they can still make changes before going live, and that's when they were made aware of the unintended use case for Hustle weapon.Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago Ignoring for a second the buff it would've been to my zon and even ignoring the flat out increase in fun due to the glorious (run) speed, I was honestly looking forward to it as a general addition. Everyone and their mom has a CtA on switch for defensive purposes. Feels like everyone and their mom (while lacking gear) has a Treachery in their stash for defensive purposes. But offensive switch/pre-buff choices? They hardly exist. Especially not actually worthwhile ones. Was rather hoping that would finally change. Bowzon was merely the prime example of how it could be good, but certainly not the only one.
Call To Arms is, by 1.10 standards, an endgame primary weapon runeword. The IAS and enhanced damage bonuses support that as well.
Treachery is the only 1.11 class armor runeword that anyone still remembers because the rest of them are not viable beyond Nightmare nor substantially better than Lionheart, Smoke, Duress, or Gloom. Also, the design of those 1.11 runewords is nearly as formulaic as the helm runewords for 2.6. It just so happens that a level 15 Fade is way more of a game changer than a level 15 Fire Ball or Twister, and the IAS makes it an affordable dual-purpose armor for mercs after the Fade proc. Before the proc though, it still kind of sucks.
Before that, pre-buffing was limited to items with skill charges. Otherwise, if an item with a proc-based skill bonus was really intended to be used as a pre-buff, it wouldn't be 5% because that's just a tedious inconvenience, and Blizzard North wasn't into that type of sadistic game design a la D3. The problem with Hustle was that ATVI was following Blizzard North's lead with these ≤5% procs while continuing to not recognize how some players will go out of their way to make them happen to justify an otherwise mediocre to downright crappy item (e.g. Treachery, Dracul's Grasp, Witchwild String, Atma's Scarab, Lava Gout).
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I've been thinking about the changed Hustle armor and how useful it will be as an early endgame armor. 65 frw is quite a bit now, as is the 40ias. I think people might be overlooking the Evade. That's 40% dmg reduction while running. It's gonna be a very legitimate option for melee characters pre-Fortitude. The thing I'm wondering is if Evade works while whirlwinding or not because that would make it pretty darn good.
And what about Hustle armor for merc ? IAS and DR are typically good
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Whirlwind does not count as running which is why defense and blocking (and Weapon Block) work when WWing. So nope, Evade will not work during WW.worstd2playerever wrote: 2 years ago I've been thinking about the changed Hustle armor and how useful it will be as an early endgame armor. 65 frw is quite a bit now, as is the 40ias. I think people might be overlooking the Evade. That's 40% dmg reduction while running. It's gonna be a very legitimate option for melee characters pre-Fortitude. The thing I'm wondering is if Evade works while whirlwinding or not because that would make it pretty darn good.
I suppose that remains to be seen. Not something that was really there to be tested in the past.DarkMaster wrote: 2 years agoWhirlwind does not count as running which is why defense and blocking (and Weapon Block) work when WWing. So nope, Evade will not work during WW.worstd2playerever wrote: 2 years ago I've been thinking about the changed Hustle armor and how useful it will be as an early endgame armor. 65 frw is quite a bit now, as is the 40ias. I think people might be overlooking the Evade. That's 40% dmg reduction while running. It's gonna be a very legitimate option for melee characters pre-Fortitude. The thing I'm wondering is if Evade works while whirlwinding or not because that would make it pretty darn good.
Evade isn't so much specific to running as it is to moving. So WW might still make it work. The more annoying thing in that regard is that 65frw really is quite a bit..and frw does speed up your Whirlwind, moving you out of range of your preferred target faster/enforcing faster re-whirling. WW barbs generally don't want frw where it can be avoided.
Will we ever get loot filter and stackable gems, runs ect...also infinite gold space would be great.
Then new act and I will never ask for more
Then new act and I will never ask for more
The thing is though Weapon Block doesn't work while moving (whether that's walking or running), but it does work while Whirlwinding. I think the movement from WW is mechanically different than regular walking or running, I suppose with the patch out now it can be tested but to me it seems very likely that Evade won't work with WW given the behavior shown with Weapon Block.Schnorki wrote: 2 years agoI suppose that remains to be seen. Not something that was really there to be tested in the past.DarkMaster wrote: 2 years agoWhirlwind does not count as running which is why defense and blocking (and Weapon Block) work when WWing. So nope, Evade will not work during WW.worstd2playerever wrote: 2 years ago I've been thinking about the changed Hustle armor and how useful it will be as an early endgame armor. 65 frw is quite a bit now, as is the 40ias. I think people might be overlooking the Evade. That's 40% dmg reduction while running. It's gonna be a very legitimate option for melee characters pre-Fortitude. The thing I'm wondering is if Evade works while whirlwinding or not because that would make it pretty darn good.
Evade isn't so much specific to running as it is to moving. So WW might still make it work. The more annoying thing in that regard is that 65frw really is quite a bit..and frw does speed up your Whirlwind, moving you out of range of your preferred target faster/enforcing faster re-whirling. WW barbs generally don't want frw where it can be avoided.
https://theamazonbasin.com/wiki/index.php/Weapon_Block
Only applies when stationary (whether idle, attacking or casting) or using Whirlwind. Blocking animation and sound do not always play when applied, particularly when applied in quick succession.
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