Of course you can look at things in different ways - in theory. And this would be an interesting (but maybe fruitless) discussion, for example how this list in fact shapes the reality of trading on this platform and if this can be considered legitimate by different sets of criteria.
In my eyes the important distinction is that this price list is based on empirical observations from trades which actually took place.
Therefore - it maybe is not empirically accurate in terms of representativity, but way better than theorizing values out of nowhere.
But everyone is free to post their own pricing guides, which would make an interesting experiment though ;D.
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Teebling
Can be used to make Runewords:
that's the point, the cube is the price list up to Lo.
There are thousands of trades that isn't following a pricing list that tries to value .75 of an Ist, it's just your experience, a guess, or what trades your choosing to value more. it's 1-1. It becomes less or more than 1-1 based on a buyer or sellers needs, that isn't a universal pricing list, it's just bartering. law of supply and demand tells you as supply increases, demand decreases. More Ist's available doesn't devalue higher runes. What dictates prices for any rune is the cube value of it, then the need per user willing to barter, and for high runes, the needs of each a buyer(demand) or seller(supply). the guy mentioned the stock market. the reason prices go up and down in these markets is because there are more sellers than buyers (prices drop), or more buyers than sellers (prices go up). In the case of ists, there are more sellers than buyers, which would make the Ist worth less, but because this is a video game, it's worth exactly what the cube value is, because you can trade it to yourself to maintain it's value, or the Gul, etc.
easy to get carried away in this discussion, but if a simplified guide is useful, have fun. if youre trying to maximize your luck of high rune drops for the purpose of maximizing getting your end game gear, generally, you will lose the trade doing this.
There are thousands of trades that isn't following a pricing list that tries to value .75 of an Ist, it's just your experience, a guess, or what trades your choosing to value more. it's 1-1. It becomes less or more than 1-1 based on a buyer or sellers needs, that isn't a universal pricing list, it's just bartering. law of supply and demand tells you as supply increases, demand decreases. More Ist's available doesn't devalue higher runes. What dictates prices for any rune is the cube value of it, then the need per user willing to barter, and for high runes, the needs of each a buyer(demand) or seller(supply). the guy mentioned the stock market. the reason prices go up and down in these markets is because there are more sellers than buyers (prices drop), or more buyers than sellers (prices go up). In the case of ists, there are more sellers than buyers, which would make the Ist worth less, but because this is a video game, it's worth exactly what the cube value is, because you can trade it to yourself to maintain it's value, or the Gul, etc.
easy to get carried away in this discussion, but if a simplified guide is useful, have fun. if youre trying to maximize your luck of high rune drops for the purpose of maximizing getting your end game gear, generally, you will lose the trade doing this.
Other than the fact that you just typed a massive blob of text that is nigh-unreadable (please use paragraphs), some of the things you say make absolutely no sense:jook wrote: 3 years ago a Pul is half an Um. an Um is half a Mal. you need 1 more Um to make your Mal. you don't get a discount. and the person needing to spend time to break a Mal into an Um isn't spending their time wisely, because those runes are not rare, and they can buy twice as many materials or a better item with the better rune. it's not a theory, it's how the game was designed. i am considering your points, but it lacks depth. back before runewords, people traded soj's. that made sense as a base currency, even though there was a lot of duping going on, there was a good idea of what the supply was based on the scarcity of them to buy bis items, the value would be in a range of soj's based on how similar items traded. doing that for mid runes doesn't make sense. because the game allows you to cube runes. these mid runes also aren't scarce items, and the supply of them is so much it basically equals the demand. there isn't more demand to break mals into Um's. when you can run countess hell and get Um's to drop, or do hell cows, or anything in hell really, in 3-4 minutes, there is no scarcity of it, therefore no higher demand for it, therefore no reason it's priced higher. until you cube up to Lo, maybe an Ohm, you aren't able to accurately value BIS or HR's. Because the HR is really the base value, specifically probably Ber, since they are the currency for the bis items people want, in other words the items people won't trade once they get unless they have duplicates, the mid runes are equal to exactly their cube value. anything else is reaching, and honestly just doesn't make any sense. the only time there would be a need to take less for lower runes is you need to break your higher runes to buy a lot of gear that isn't worth one larger rune, and they make the decision to buy many smaller items instead of one larger item, because they see more value in it. Or they have bis gear, and they need mid runes to trade for charms they cant find in bulk, crafting materials, and this person will value their runes less then the charms and materials becuase they have bis gear already and their needs change. These two people are the supply side of the graph, they aren't creating the demand they are supplying it by taking discounts. that's why prices change per person based on their needs. Ist is usually the most common mid-rune people settle on to go higher or lower, and the items that are worth keeping long-term are usually worth atleast Ist. Gul's aren't suddenly worth less because more people have more Ists. That isn't how supply/demand works, which isn't a theory. The reality is HR's make the graph go the other way then what youre suggesting, because they are actually scarce and create demand, and can buy end game gear. There are currently 20,000+ active trades on this site, the scope of your search is in your experience. it isn't a universal rule by any stretch.
"you don't get a discount." - yes, you literally do, you get what the seller is willing to accept, and a lot of the times it is lower than cube value.
"those runes are not rare" - actually they are, I've been playing for the last 3 months, and I can count on 1 hand how many times I've seen an Um rune drop (twice), the same goes for a Mal (3 times). I've never seen an Ist drop outside of Hellforge, and I've never seen a Gul or a Vex drop. I've found Ohm, Sur, Ber, Cham, and Zod all once.
Point is that mid runes are actually relatively rare and not easy to find at all.
Lol, you can argue whether Ist is the base currency, but Ber is clearly not the base currency.jook wrote: 3 years ago i think you should read my points and make sense of it for yourself. i've said the same thing from the beginning. Also, an Ist being a common rune people use to go higher or lower or for spending on charms and bulk materials doesn't make it a base currency to devalue other higher runes. it's just a middle point. The base currency is the Ber, if anything, because end game items are the goal. maybe it's easier for you to just simplify things, and there is personal value in that, even though you end up losing. People trade on their needs, that creates the supply and demand. I am disagreeing with this list and most of what you say, so i would try to understand how supply and demand works better before giving away runes for no reason other then an arbitrary universal list of prices that doesn't meet your own needs. mostly this is common sense. but have fun, gl.
People sell stuff all the time for Ist, 2 Ist, 5 Ist.
I've never seen someone list a trade like " Shako for 0.04 Ber"
C'mon man.
absolutely makes sense. it's the high runes that are valuable because they buy end game gear, and typically the most valuable items start with how many Ber. Similar to how soj trading worked. Because the scarcity of each is matched. Which means that is the best gear you can wear, best in slot. and the reason you havent seen .04 of a Ber is because that logic to break runes into percentages is flawed to begin with. youve never seen a Gul or Vex drop, maybe just keep playing the game, and for me, that just shows your experience doing this. also, the point of "you don't get a discount" is because there is no need for somoene to give you one unless they need to, or have a reason to, which is just a barter, not a permanent price set. Even you saying "you do get a discount," actually just means you agreed with the base value of the cube, because what are you discounting? you're discounting the whole value to your needs. which the game gives you, the price guide you need, the cube recipes for runes. You see 2-5 ists being traded because it's a common rune, and it's a bid for a specific item roll. That is a different subject than just comparing rune value against each other, and in that same trade there would be no reason for the seller who takes 4 ists, to not also take a Vex. they are equal. therefore there would be no reason for someone offering 3 ists to expect to get Vex value. This thread tries to create a value that assumes everyone does need the lower runes more than the higher runes or gear the higher runes buy. That's why the logic is flawed. That, again, wouldn't devalue the higher runes, the same way a dollar doesnt devalue $20. I'm trying to leave this thread now, it's more than enough said already.
Supply demand. There was a time (early ladder) when you can find a genuine need for Ist's, be that the popular mid-tier uniques, Ist'ed occy or whatever. That's when you saw a lot of trades like Ohm = 5 Ist - fair trades at the time just like those Ohm+ Tal Rasha armors were. Those were the market consensus at the time, you could also arbitrarily define Ohm as the base but it was just inconvenient compared to Ist.jook wrote: 3 years ago Sorry, but this actually makes no sense. 4 Ist make a Vex. That’s what it’s worth. A Vex isn’t somehow less than what it takes to make it. When talking about any rune Lo and below, it’s exactly worth what it takes to cube up to it. Base currency only made sense when soj’s were the currency because it wasn’t tied to cubing or runewords. Ists are more common because it’s a mid rune that buys a lot of small items. If you say an Ist is a dollar, why would a twenty dollar bill be worth $17.50?
Of course at this stage Ist's falling out of favor and everything below Lo are trading pretty close to the cube ratio now, but I won't be surprised to see this discount Pattern repeats itself as a new ladder starts, as it did many times in the past.
I agree it is pointless to stock Ist to save up for the end game stuff - maybe it's better to think in two different classes of currencies this late on sc non-ladder. You have the class of runes that are "changes" starting from Um/ Mal all ways up to Lo, at cube value, then you have high end trade currency that are really just Sur, Ber and Jah. When you could trade a Lo for a Sur these two worlds are somewhat connected, but the drift has already started for a while.
Market shifts all the time, do not follow this like the bible, but rather do your own studies from time to time
big example of changing trends as below
trade/jah-t760954.html
big example of changing trends as below
trade/jah-t760954.html
Is this updated?
Morphin wrote: 3 years ago Seen trades on the forums many times and is shocked how oblivious new players are about the value of HRs.
Plagiarizing the format of https://www.reddit.com/r/slashdiablo/co ... une_worth/, but things obviously are not quite the same.
The key thing to understand is that runes don't always trade at cube ratio (but getting closer to it over time, with the exceptions of Lo/ Sur and Jah/ Cham). Cubing 2 x Gul to Vex and 2 x Cham to Zod is fine, 2x Sur to Ber is popular and possibly one of the best ways to get a Ber.
Don't let the number intimate you, think all HRs in Ist's. In D2 trading world an Ist is like a dollar.
Lem = 1/12 Ist
Pul = 2 Lem = 1/6 Ist
Um = 2 Pul = 1/3 Ist
Mal = Um + Pul = 1/2 Ist
Ist (base currency)
Gul = 1/2 Vex = 1.75 Ist
Vex = 2 Gul = 3 Ist + Mal = 3.5 Ist
Ohm = 2 Vex = 7 Ist
Lo = 2 Ohm = 14 Ist
Sur = Lo + 3 Ist = 17 Ist
Ber = 2 Sur = 34 Ist
Jah = Ber - Vex = 30.5 Ist
Cham = 4 Ist
Zod = 2 Cham = 8 Ist
The disclaimer here is that this is merely an observation from recent trades (late December 2021), and your mileage will vary, but a fair trade should not deviate too far off these numbers unless you are making a conscious choice. Generally, people seek a healthy profit when they are not in a hurry (no longer the case as HRs are recently in higher demand), but multiple Ist's profits particularly targeted at obvious new players are just predatory.
Occasionally you'll run into sick people when trading HRs on BN who ask you to Ctrl+Click on the rune (which is a short cut for drop item on the Ground). Those are the lowest form scammers who sell runes on eBay and never do what they told you to!
Finding an HR from the monster drop is like winning a mini lottery, so don't fall for those complicated packages that are designed to trick you!
PM if I win
pm me here (d2. Io) for trade
Ladder is still a fair bit earlier and prioritizing the "useful earlier gear". The Cham runewords are more of a fun thing to play around with, they don't generally replace anything as BiS for..well, anything. Same reason Cham was valued at Vex in NL for months before it then slowly moved up to where it is now.
Plague (as an example) is basically what you use if you can't afford an Infinity. If Cham prices went too high, that whole "get the cheap one until I can get the real one" approach goes out the window, reducing demand, keeping Cham lower again.
at this moment on pc, nonladder, softcore market it goes something like this when u selling.
Pul - 2 x Lem
Um - Pul + Lem + Fal
Mal - Um + Pul
Ist - Mal + Um
Gul - Ist + Mal
Vex - 3 x Ist, Gul + Ist + Um
Ohm - 5 x Ist + Mal, Vex + 2 x Ist + Mal
Lo - 10 x Ist, Ohm + Vex + Ist + Um
Sur - 15 x Ist, Lo + Vex + 2 x Ist
Ber - 25 Ist, Sur + Lo
Jah - 35 Ist, Ber + Lo
Cham - 8 Ist, 2 x Vex + 2 x Ist see in schnorki's post, 2nd after
Zod - 8 Ist, 2 x Vex + 2 x Ist see in schnorki's post, 2nd after
Pul - 2 x Lem
Um - Pul + Lem + Fal
Mal - Um + Pul
Ist - Mal + Um
Gul - Ist + Mal
Vex - 3 x Ist, Gul + Ist + Um
Ohm - 5 x Ist + Mal, Vex + 2 x Ist + Mal
Lo - 10 x Ist, Ohm + Vex + Ist + Um
Sur - 15 x Ist, Lo + Vex + 2 x Ist
Ber - 25 Ist, Sur + Lo
Jah - 35 Ist, Ber + Lo
Cham - 8 Ist, 2 x Vex + 2 x Ist see in schnorki's post, 2nd after
Zod - 8 Ist, 2 x Vex + 2 x Ist see in schnorki's post, 2nd after
...ladder alsoif online, contact me via bn chat for fast trade or negotiations after placing reply here.
If u need help with SCNL "Socket" quest, ubers or waypoints, feel free to contact me. Will gladly help.
Thanks for this, it´s so helpful !brgljez wrote: 2 years ago at this moment on pc, nonladder, softcore market it goes something like this when u selling.
Pul - 2 x Lem
Um - Pul + Lem + Fal
Mal - Um + Pul
Ist - Mal + Um
Gul - Ist + Mal
Vex - 3 x Ist, Gul + Ist + Um
Ohm - 5 x Ist + Mal, Vex + 2 x Ist + Mal
Lo - 10 x Ist, Ohm + Vex + Ist + Um
Sur - 15 x Ist, Lo + Vex + 2 x Ist
Ber - 25 Ist, Sur + Lo
Jah - 35 Ist, Ber + Lo
Cham - 8 Ist, 2 x Vex + 2 x Ist
Zod - 8 Ist, 2 x Vex + 2 x Ist
ALL MY TRADES ARE NON-LADDER
"ARGHHHHHHH, FRESH MEAT"
Moderator friends, could someone make this post a sticky ? So useful as a reference !
Shall be written in the title that this is for SC Non-ladder though.
Shall be written in the title that this is for SC Non-ladder though.
Main: Necromancer / Second: Assassin / Third: Amazon / Check my stash, my crafts and my many cheap Annihilus
That already a link in a stick thread:
forums/useful-diablo-2-links-resources-t3232.html
"Trading" section, 2nd links
forums/useful-diablo-2-links-resources-t3232.html
"Trading" section, 2nd links
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