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Description by sonnytai331
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Can be used to make Runewords:

7
User avatar

fredkid 1028

Amazon Americas PC
Are Immunes a real problem with sunder +
Conviction
? 🤔🤔
(And Flickering Flame in the case of Dragondin)

I didn't play Dragofin too much (ended up considering a little boring after some time...), but while late nightmare was a pain because of the fire Immunes, don't remember to have any problems on Hell after L75 (when I started to use use
Flame Rift
)
DasNarf wrote: 4 days ago
Hello again!

Well, I built that guy on my 92 Paladin and spent a whole day comparing both of them. I sticked to the guide you posted, and geared him with all he needed. The only thing I didn't have at hand was that 18 FCR amulet, so I replaced it with a Highlords, which is a good choice as well.

The missing breakpoint is no big issue, teleport speed is decent. After a first test, which was a disaster, I immediately swapped those IAS gloves with Draculs. Both Auradins NEED that item to stay alive.

Why the hell does this guy recommend those gloves anyway? You don't need any more IAS for maximum attack speed if you have Fanaticism and a Phase Blade...

From then on, the Tesladin played safe and well!

Gear is as follows:

Crescent Moon PB
Enigma
Dream Kurast Shield with 60 allres
Dream Tiara
10 FCR dual leech ring with allres
perfect Raven
Arachnid belt
Draculs gloves
Gore Riders
gg Anni
shared Torch with my Dragondin, because I don't have a spare one

Merc is an ordinary might guy with Infinity CA, eth CoH and eth Cure.

Skills are maxed synergies, maxed Fana, maxed HS, 1 point Zeal, remaining points into Sacrifice. I could have maxed Zeal instead of HS, but for my players 8 test, I prefered to have higher def and additional life. Leech isn't enough on its own and LT doesn't proc as reliable as with my Dragondin, who is escorted by a Last Wish companion.

Both Paladins are high level, have maxed fire, lightning and poison resistance, 75% block and 2 fpa attack speed. Both have a +6 BO Redemption Scepter and Spirit on swap.

Of course, the Tesladin is a formidable build, no question. But both have their individual strengths and weaknesses. In principle, it's just another enigma/infinity build like many others. But this is just my personal preference and no objective judgement. I just find it boring to gear, boring to play.

During my test sessions in doing several terror zones, chaos runs, cow runs and baalruns, I noticed the following:

-We don't need to talk about Enigma. It's great. If you don't hate it like me, because it breaks so many builds in this game. *cry*

-Tesladin is leaning more towards a Zealot and has to be played very actively and aggressively, because his aura isn't that of a help. It is a matter of playstyle which one is to be preferred. I like the more leaned back style of the Dragondin, whose aura really feels like having power.

-Dragondin aura is, as I said before, absurdly strong! He shines in all open areas, be it cows, river of flame, city of the damned, jungle, desert and so on. The aura scales linearly with the number of enemies and takes out dangerous foes behind the lines. The more mobs on the screen, the higher the difference to the Tesladin!

-This scaling doesn't work out for the Tesladin, first because of the weaker aura, and second because of the high chance to proc confuse. Confused enemies stop engaging you, or worse, run away, which is what we DON'T want to maximize aura and melee damage. Very often, Tesladin has to follow them like a poodle or ignore them.

-The fire aura just eats Souls, Succubi and Oblivion Knights like popcorn. This is highly safe and convenient.

-Tesladin is stronger versus most immunes in melee. He hates all kinds of Bugs, and Souls may harm him even with 85 resistance. Dragondin doesn't like Megademons and Fire Boars. Blood Lord boss packs may pose a threat for both Paladins.

-As Tesladin, you have to keep an eye on your merc. He died twice during my tests. The barb is not invincible, but can stand his ground more reliably.

-Considering build cost, Tesladin wins over my build (7 high runes to 12 if I counted right).


Lastly said, I am aware there is some "modern" form of the Tesladin, made with self-used HS, Griffons instead of Dream and so on. But this guy leans even more into a Zealer, and I wanted to challenge the quoted "classic Tesladin", who is supposed to be superior in P8. Which is wrong.

Now for the video I joined some online games with both Paladins, solo'ed Worldstone Keep, recorded some footage and made a video out of it. I tried to cover all possible enemies (which didn't work 100%), and cut it that way to compare how both Paladins perform in similar situations. Most of the time we have a full 8 player online game.

All in all I must say, there is no clear winner.

Worldstone Keep 2: Very few fire immunes, souls are a joke, masses of enemies possible. Dragondin reigns supreme here.
Worldstone Keep 3: Exactly the opposite. Many fire immunes can make it nasty. No dangerous light immunes. Tesladin wins here.
Throne Room: Nearly all enemies from the previous levels may appear here. It's just a matter of luck for both. Tied.

Cow level: Dragondin wins, hands down.
Chaos Sanctuary: Tesladin wins, hands down.

All in all, if we consider the "holy trinity of farming areas", it's a tie. For terror zones, those are so diverse, and it's luck again which of them to get in your playtime. Another tie.

If you happen to be that kind of player who can't live without an Enigma, then it's the Tesla for you. ;-)

Now enjoy the video:



For a while: not accepting
Ral
or
Hel
; and considering
Perfect Skull
as a regular
Perfect Gems
on my trades.

Time Zone: GMT-3
Non-Ladder | Softcore | Expansion
7
fredkid wrote: 4 days ago
Are Immunes a real problem with sunder +
Conviction
? 🤔🤔
(And Flickering Flame in the case of Dragondin)

I didn't play Dragofin too much (ended up considering a little boring after some time...), but while late nightmare was a pain because of the fire Immunes, don't remember to have any problems on Hell after L75 (when I started to use use
Flame Rift
)
Most of them are no problem. There's just a few immunes appearing in very late areas that have a high life pool. Baals Minions, Chaos Lords or Megademons. Smaller ones die by a few ticks even in a full multiplayer game.

Nearly all lightning immunes don't have much life. This is one reason what makes lightning based builds surpass most fire, poison or cold builds.

ElSolDolLol

For low items I also accept: Perfect Amys,
Ral
,
Hel
, Tokens, Keys. Please don't offer runes lower than
Pul
(with the named exceptions).

NO PM OFFERS PLEASE! BE FAIR AND WRITE INTO THE THREAD :)
7
User avatar

fredkid 1028

Amazon Americas PC
Note: played most at p1 (so no much experience on immunes in high players count...)
fredkid wrote: 4 days ago
Are Immunes a real problem with sunder +
Conviction
? 🤔🤔
(And Flickering Flame in the case of Dragondin)

I didn't play Dragofin too much (ended up considering a little boring after some time...), but while late nightmare was a pain because of the fire Immunes, don't remember to have any problems on Hell after L75 (when I started to use use
Flame Rift
)
DasNarf wrote: 4 days ago
Hello again!

Well, I built that guy on my 92 Paladin and spent a whole day comparing both of them. I sticked to the guide you posted, and geared him with all he needed. The only thing I didn't have at hand was that 18 FCR amulet, so I replaced it with a Highlords, which is a good choice as well.

The missing breakpoint is no big issue, teleport speed is decent. After a first test, which was a disaster, I immediately swapped those IAS gloves with Draculs. Both Auradins NEED that item to stay alive.

Why the hell does this guy recommend those gloves anyway? You don't need any more IAS for maximum attack speed if you have Fanaticism and a Phase Blade...

From then on, the Tesladin played safe and well!

Gear is as follows:

Crescent Moon PB
Enigma
Dream Kurast Shield with 60 allres
Dream Tiara
10 FCR dual leech ring with allres
perfect Raven
Arachnid belt
Draculs gloves
Gore Riders
gg Anni
shared Torch with my Dragondin, because I don't have a spare one

Merc is an ordinary might guy with Infinity CA, eth CoH and eth Cure.

Skills are maxed synergies, maxed Fana, maxed HS, 1 point Zeal, remaining points into Sacrifice. I could have maxed Zeal instead of HS, but for my players 8 test, I prefered to have higher def and additional life. Leech isn't enough on its own and LT doesn't proc as reliable as with my Dragondin, who is escorted by a Last Wish companion.

Both Paladins are high level, have maxed fire, lightning and poison resistance, 75% block and 2 fpa attack speed. Both have a +6 BO Redemption Scepter and Spirit on swap.

Of course, the Tesladin is a formidable build, no question. But both have their individual strengths and weaknesses. In principle, it's just another enigma/infinity build like many others. But this is just my personal preference and no objective judgement. I just find it boring to gear, boring to play.

During my test sessions in doing several terror zones, chaos runs, cow runs and baalruns, I noticed the following:

-We don't need to talk about Enigma. It's great. If you don't hate it like me, because it breaks so many builds in this game. *cry*

-Tesladin is leaning more towards a Zealot and has to be played very actively and aggressively, because his aura isn't that of a help. It is a matter of playstyle which one is to be preferred. I like the more leaned back style of the Dragondin, whose aura really feels like having power.

-Dragondin aura is, as I said before, absurdly strong! He shines in all open areas, be it cows, river of flame, city of the damned, jungle, desert and so on. The aura scales linearly with the number of enemies and takes out dangerous foes behind the lines. The more mobs on the screen, the higher the difference to the Tesladin!

-This scaling doesn't work out for the Tesladin, first because of the weaker aura, and second because of the high chance to proc confuse. Confused enemies stop engaging you, or worse, run away, which is what we DON'T want to maximize aura and melee damage. Very often, Tesladin has to follow them like a poodle or ignore them.

-The fire aura just eats Souls, Succubi and Oblivion Knights like popcorn. This is highly safe and convenient.

-Tesladin is stronger versus most immunes in melee. He hates all kinds of Bugs, and Souls may harm him even with 85 resistance. Dragondin doesn't like Megademons and Fire Boars. Blood Lord boss packs may pose a threat for both Paladins.

-As Tesladin, you have to keep an eye on your merc. He died twice during my tests. The barb is not invincible, but can stand his ground more reliably.

-Considering build cost, Tesladin wins over my build (7 high runes to 12 if I counted right).


Lastly said, I am aware there is some "modern" form of the Tesladin, made with self-used HS, Griffons instead of Dream and so on. But this guy leans even more into a Zealer, and I wanted to challenge the quoted "classic Tesladin", who is supposed to be superior in P8. Which is wrong.

Now for the video I joined some online games with both Paladins, solo'ed Worldstone Keep, recorded some footage and made a video out of it. I tried to cover all possible enemies (which didn't work 100%), and cut it that way to compare how both Paladins perform in similar situations. Most of the time we have a full 8 player online game.

All in all I must say, there is no clear winner.

Worldstone Keep 2: Very few fire immunes, souls are a joke, masses of enemies possible. Dragondin reigns supreme here.
Worldstone Keep 3: Exactly the opposite. Many fire immunes can make it nasty. No dangerous light immunes. Tesladin wins here.
Throne Room: Nearly all enemies from the previous levels may appear here. It's just a matter of luck for both. Tied.

Cow level: Dragondin wins, hands down.
Chaos Sanctuary: Tesladin wins, hands down.

All in all, if we consider the "holy trinity of farming areas", it's a tie. For terror zones, those are so diverse, and it's luck again which of them to get in your playtime. Another tie.

If you happen to be that kind of player who can't live without an Enigma, then it's the Tesla for you. ;-)

Now enjoy the video:



For a while: not accepting
Ral
or
Hel
; and considering
Perfect Skull
as a regular
Perfect Gems
on my trades.

Time Zone: GMT-3
Non-Ladder | Softcore | Expansion
7
User avatar

D369 20

My apologies, I've had some issues with my main PC for the past month and have not been able to run too many Graphically intense programs such as Games + OBS to record, but this will be fixed in under 2 weeks once a part arrives. I plan to throw up Tesladin Runs a Dream Sorc just so we have it all here.
DasNarf wrote: 6 days ago

Bro, are you kidding me? This is like 60% difference in melee damage and 200% difference in aura damage (lightning aura damage has to be doubled, fire damage has to be tripled to be correct, maxroll doesn't take this into account)!
I would never build a Tesladin like that. It's a Melee build and that one is trying too hard to be a Caster with that FCR just for
Teleport
.

The one thing you have to keep in mind is that a Tesladin has only 2x pieces that are set - the
Helm
and shield. The rest you can do whatever you want. Your cookie-cutter build you setup to test is fair and I accept that - you needed some kind of standard base to measure. Dragondin is easier since it's more set.
DasNarf wrote: 6 days ago

since you seem not be able to prove your words, quoting some random guys instead.
Umm.. I sent that to you as a reference, and his thoughts mirror my own. His build? Looks nothing like my own, BUT his experience and testing has been the same as mine- therefore same result. It's also to show you more than just myself thinks this.
7
User avatar

D369 20

DasNarf wrote: 4 days ago

After a first test, which was a disaster, I immediately swapped those IAS gloves with Draculs. Both Auradins NEED that item to stay alive.
I have not once used Dracs in normal gameplay. I keep some on hand for Ubers but since I separate the bosses individually I don't need them. Love them though they are lovely gloves, and wish I could use them more.
Laying of Hands
is just too valuable.

The build you referenced I'm sure they were needed there.
DasNarf wrote: 4 days ago

Why the hell does this guy recommend those gloves anyway? You don't need any more IAS for maximum attack speed if you have
Fanaticism
and a
Phase Blade
...


This made me laugh, and OFC I agree. Absolute head-scratcher that one..

DasNarf wrote: 4 days ago

From then on, the Tesladin played safe and well!


It's funny, I've never felt more safe playing the game than with this build. Being able to run into packs of Souls in P8 and just make yourself a Cup of Coffee is just wonderful. Spell? Cleanse it. Fellow player struggling?
Salvation
. Wanna sit back n chill?
Defiance
. For everything else?
Conviction
.
DasNarf wrote: 4 days ago

Gear is as follows:

Crescent Moon
PB
Enigma


Again, you were responding to the listed build I again I accept this and whatever result comes from it. For clarity though I would never run or recommend a
Crescent Moon
with Dream for standard gameplay. There are times/Acts where you can successfully shred with CM. In harder Acts it falls off dramatically it just has too low ED.

If you natively run
Holy Shock
then absolutely I do recommend CM, and as a starter weapon in either case. I absolutely love CM but later on it just struggles. Native HS I have learnt that the Synergies do work harder and CM will be stronger than with a Dream setup. Either way that doesn't matter, as if it works just use it. I love the Wolf charges! I usually give them a BO and
Enchant
their damage. It works really well!

DasNarf wrote: 4 days ago

Merc is an ordinary might guy with Infinity CA,
Eth
CoH and
Eth
Cure.


I was surprised to see his build with
Fanaticism
even though a Zealer uses this. The actual beauty of this build is
Conviction
being central to it. The minus enemy defense is the hidden Achilles heel and brings it all together. Self-casting this means is
Key
to support the Melee properly of course and it obviously keeps working if your Merc dies.
DasNarf wrote: 4 days ago

Both have a +6 BO
Redemption
Scepter
and Spirit on swap.


Nice...
DasNarf wrote: 4 days ago

Of course, the Tesladin is a formidable build, no question. But both have their individual strengths and weaknesses.


I see that you playing it and giving it higher marks in certain areas over Ddin has grown your appreciation for it, and that's great. Again this is just the cookie-cutter setup - it gets better with some adjustments.

DasNarf wrote: 4 days ago

In Principle, it's just another Enigma/Infinity build like many others. But this is just my personal preference and no objective judgement. I just find it boring to gear, boring to play.


That Merc setup is cool, I just refuse that completely for a normal typical Tesladin build who runs Dream.
DasNarf wrote: 4 days ago
-We don't need to talk about Enigma. It's great. If you don't hate it like me, because it breaks so many builds in this game. *cry*


I absolutely 100% will not run Enigma for
Teleport
on this build. I agree with you, and it's sad to see it become the standard for every single build. Running around Charging as a Pali is just too much fun. Also being able to focus your pieces on damage and other things rather than spec'ing for FCR and mitigating Mana issues. How pedestrian....

DasNarf wrote: 4 days ago

-Tesladin is leaning more towards a Zealot and has to be played very actively and aggressively, because his aura isn't that of a help. It is a matter of playstyle which one is to be preferred.


Absolutely, and with this
Fanaticism
build - even more so. I also explain to ppl that a Tesla is a Zealer with AOE and to setup accordingly. Actively and aggressively - you hit the nail on the head. It's very much a fast playstyle but in it's defense - the
Conviction
Aura and it's minus defense really benifits the Merc and they will do great work when you're just hanging around identifying goods or just staring into space.
DasNarf wrote: 4 days ago

I like the more leaned back style of the Dragondin, whose aura really feels like having power.


The reason I don't find it fun is how many bodies it drops from a distance. It doesn't feel like you're playing, and not in the fight. It might also be the
Holy Fire
animation being so subtle. I love that others enjoy it though and am glad it's available for those people.

DasNarf wrote: 4 days ago

-This scaling doesn't work out for the Tesladin, first because of the weaker aura, and second because of the high chance to proc
Confuse
. Confused enemies stop engaging you, or worse, run away, which is what we DON'T want to maximize aura and melee damage.


Interesting you had that experience.
Confuse
actually can be huge for the build. It allows enemies to fight while you work on a few targets, and by the time you get to them - they have already had several Ticks and their health is either extremely low or they die before you get there. I adore it. Sometimes I just sit and watch, then wait for the drop. Running after some is fine also - since I'm Charging anyway. Feels like they're scared! Soo good haha.

DasNarf wrote: 4 days ago

-As Tesladin, you have to keep an eye on your merc. He died twice during my tests. The barb is not invincible, but can stand his Ground more reliably.


The A5 Barb is the only Merc I don't agree with for this. The main reason is YOU are the damage in this build and Mercs are there to support an Aura for either damage or utility such as Cure.

Even with A5 and dual Last Wish it still is a waste against a Might Merc with + skills
Helm
and who can provide an extra weapon Aura on top.

DasNarf wrote: 4 days ago

Lastly said, I am aware there is some "modern" form of the Tesladin, made with self-used HS, Griffons instead of Dream and so on. But this guy leans even more into a Zealer, and I wanted to challenge the quoted "classic Tesladin", who is supposed to be superior in P8. Which is wrong.


I baulked when I saw that and how many people jumped onboard thinking it was better than a Dream Paladin. Everyone is soo keen to change the standard instead of just having an alternate build and being okay with that.

Tesladin properly set up is the strongest Melee Auradin. So P8 will be his domain, naturally. My DPS is higher than yours just FYI. A cookie-cutter setup? then you're probably right it won't be. Against those high rune pieces it doesn't stand much of a chance.
DasNarf wrote: 4 days ago

All in all I must say, there is no clear winner.


Epic.. With an Enigma based Tesla? Impressive. Imagine a proper setup - even more juicy..

DasNarf wrote: 4 days ago

All in all, if we consider the "holy trinity of farming areas", it's a tie. For
Terror
zones, those are so diverse, and it's luck again which of them to get in your playtime. Another tie.


Pretty cool results

DasNarf wrote: 4 days ago

If you happen to be that kind of player who can't live without an Enigma, then it's the Tesla for you. ;-)


Makes me want to Vomit.... Enigma go ahead and use it (talking to everyone else) but to me it just doesn't suit and reduces the potential of the build sooooooo much. I understand the Magic Find aspect but guys please! Shield
Charge
is soo good.

BTW haven't watch these latest videos but will do shortly.
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