No-runes HC S(SF) assasin

I'm starting a new HC SSF run with one character of each class.
But I'm not sure what assasin build I should go for.

Some extra rules for this run:

• Only sunder charms in the shared stash to start. I can share what I find.

• No runes in equipment (can be used in the cube)

• One character for each sunder type. (assasin has free choice, as I have one for each already)

• Start the build from level 1 (no skill tree swapping for faster levelling)

• New builds (I finished one classic and one LOD run before) - so no Phoenix Strike this time.

I see three options for my assasin.

• Trapsin - Seems pretty safe, but mana intensive and I don't like being passive (ex. disliked fishymancer) - I'd rather not...

• Bladesin - Also seems pretty safe, yet mana intensive. How runeword dependent is a bladesin?

• Kicksin - Seems fun. How runeword dependent is a kicksin? - preferred choice, I think...

Is there any advice here?
Even for the others build, tips are very welcome...

• Fire - Elemental Druid - had a Fire claw + Maul Bear in my last run, which might well be my favorite toon

• Cold - Blizzard Sorc - would have preferred a lightning sorc, but Cold it is

• Lightning - Lightning Zon - Fury or Strike, not sure yet. probably Strike because of mana

• Phys - Throw Barb - would have preffered a Singer, but that seems very, very mana heavy

• Magic - Hammerdin - Hammer + Holy Bolt / FOH - Bone necro & Berserk barb were used in previous runs...

• Poison - Poison necro - I loved Plague Javelin, looking forward to this despite the mana demand.

Somewhat ironically, the one I would personally hard exclude is your preferred choice. Kicksins are just painfully "mweh" without runes (and hence without Mosaic).

You can still play through, sure, but you're certainly making things unnecessarily hard for ya.

Trapsins are just brilliant allrounder characters. They do use a fair bit of mana, yes, but that won't be as bad for you as your "no runes" removes Enigma and hence all of the mana consumption that goes with chain teleporting, giving your mana time to regen while running instead. Insight is still nice and all but even without it, you can make them work with little to no mana pots (mine runs on infinite mana without pots or Insight, despite Enigma spam-tele-mana-usage between traps).

Blade sins are fairly fun (subjective, naturally) and equally work well enough without runes, though they do work far better if you get the rune-based dmg scaling options (weapon variety, fort, ...). Mana usage usually isn't an issue at all because mana steal does work with Blade Fury.

Hell, even a shadow sin works surprisingly well (for playthrough purposes, not so much for speed farming later on, obv). Get your master buffed to hell and back, start Venom-sniping stuff alongside him, .. gimmicky but actually kinda fun and surprisingly not-terrible.

I also play HC NL like yourself.

If I had to pick a build, I would probably go with either blades or Lightning Sentry trap sin. And between those 2 I think blades is a little more fun (less meta)

I do have a endgame one of these that I started from scratch, and it was able to hold its own throughout the climb probably a little better then light in hell difficulty.

I did this though without the use of Death Sentry. I wanted to evaluate the character on its own merits.

It does shine on maps with tight, narrow corridors, and hallways (Maggot/ Niths Temple/ Worldstone and throne)

Setting up sentries with the effective casting and manipulation of Shadow Warrior, (my preference over master because it uses the same skills you do)
allows you to "bait" enemies into your "razor welcome mat".

This character is NOT Ias dependant Fury being a fixed frame attack, and being chilled is only annoying and not more problematic like it would be with the LS variant.

Your typical end game best in slot would be a rare claw with skills and high enhanced damage,
the more the merrier. This will incentivize you checking your rare claw drops more often (thus more in line with your goals for the character)

This character does get the bonuses from Claw Mastery so running one of these will be your overall best option.

Even Bartuc's or a Shadow Killer or nats claw and set if found will serve this character well.

My last 2 reasons for recommending the build is #1 the last patch fix, the channeling is not longer halted when the initial target is killed. #2 There are fewer physical immunes overall in the game, so running a Bone Break and not having to lower lightning resistances is a better overall option from a safety standpoint, and wont involve needing to find specific resistance charms to compensate for this.

Great input. Thanks!

I'm leaning towards blades now. But I am a bit confused about the kicksin needing Mosaic to shine.

I thought they usually stick to just Dragon Talon, Venom and Death Sentry, ignoring the Charge up skills?
Weren't kicksins pretty powerful even before Mosiac? Or did their power always come from runewords?

Lumumba wrote: 1 year ago

[..]
I thought they usually stick to just Dragon Talon, Venom and Death Sentry, ignoring the Charge up skills?
Weren't kicksins pretty powerful even before Mosiac? Or did their power always come from runewords?

With that approach, you're either looking at constant re-charging-upping which is beyond annoying and pretty bad performance overall or you ignore Charge-ups entirely and end up with rather 'mweh' single target damage, all while being semi-squishy in melee range.

Dragon Tail you could actually push to 'overkill' levels even without any Charge ups but takes a fair bit more rather specific gear that you're unlikely to get as part of just your normal combined playthroughs.

You can still make it through the game, sure, same as pretty much any other class/build one could Dream up, but it is kinda bad by comparison imo.


Death Sentry is kind of a different topic imo..I wouldn't consider that a kicksin, seeing how you get nearly the same effect just dropping them sentries and having your merc (and/or master) kill the initial couple mobs. Your main focus/dmg/whatever at that point is the Death Sentry, not the kicking.

For anyone who ends up here somehow:

I picked blades.
It felt very safe, and it was probably one of the easier runs I have done.
Used Cleglaw's Brace for most of the game, I think. Certainly didn't have the very best of gear.
Didn't need or have a Bone Break sunder during the run. (I used something with enough elemental damage when I really had to)

If I remember correctly (This was a few months ago now) Blood Lord type monsters were the main threat.

It was pretty fun all in all.

I also have a full gleglaw and i am thinking to try a Blade sin. But how is the build? Is Blade Fury your main damage? Every time I try Blade sin, i get disappointed and restat to traps. Blade Shield is so useless that i literally use it only to warn me that Fade is about to expire.

If you want to play without runes, consider playing Classic. Obviously, Assassin and Druid are out of question.

ipatrishkov wrote: 11 months ago

I also have a full gleglaw and i am thinking to try a Blade sin. But how is the build? Is Blade Fury your main damage? Every time I try Blade sin, i get disappointed and restat to traps. Blade Shield is so useless that i literally use it only to warn me that Fade is about to expire.

I think a lot depends on where you are coming from.
I play single player, hardcore. I haven't got Infinity or Enigma, I haven't found a single Rainbow Facet.
I start with an empty shared stash (or near empty) and one toon of each class.
So it always is a bit of a grind. That is the game for me.

But yes, Blade Fury is your main damage skill.
Blade Sentinel did help, if I remember correctly. Especially when there are lots of low health monsters around.
Blade Shield probably didn't help much, as I wasn't usually close enough to the action.

Trang Oul wrote: 11 months ago

If you want to play without runes, consider playing Classic. Obviously, Assassin and Druid are out of question.

I did a classic run when D2R came out (HC single player). But finding a very decent Martel de Fer with your amazon just hurts too much.
All you can do is leave it on the floor...

I would love something in between Classic and LOD.
No runes, no charms. Slightly reduced monster resitance/immunities.

Because finding something good sure feels different in Classic.