In 2.4, Magic Arrow will convert 100% of physical damage to magic starting at level 49. When this happens, the arrow becomes unblockable. This is very nice for Baal who has 50% phys res and 0 magic res, and 50% chance to block physical attacks. So level 49 Magic Arrow will quadruple your damage against Baal compared to a plain normal attack, and that’s not even including the +49 base damage from the skill (which does get multiplied by off-weapon ED, e.g. Dex bonus, auras, etc).
Sounds honestly GG for PvP since everyone has 75% block, that’s a 4x damage bonus compared to normal attack! 8x damage vs someone with 50% DR.
But it requires the following gear to hit 49 Magic Arrow:
Mist
CoH
+2 skills Helm with IAS jewel
Highlords
BK Ring
Arachnid Mesh
3/20 bow gloves
CTA buff
Torch, Anni, and 8 bow skillers.
Thoughts? Unblockable makes this basically Bone Spear but better, as long as dex high enough for high chance to hit and damage.
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In 2.4, Magic Arrow will convert 100% of physical damage to magic starting at level 49. When this happens, the arrow becomes unblockable. This is very nice for Baal who has 50% phys res and 0 magic res, and 50% chance to block physical attacks. So level 49 Magic Arrow will quadruple your damage against Baal compared to a plain normal attack, and that’s not even including the +49 base damage from the skill (which does get multiplied by off-weapon ED, e.g. Dex bonus, auras, etc).
Sounds honestly GG for PvP since everyone has 75% block, that’s a 4x damage bonus compared to normal attack! 8x damage vs someone with 50% DR.
But it requires the following gear to hit 49 Magic Arrow:
Mist
CoH
+2 skills Helm with IAS jewel
Highlords
BK Ring
Arachnid Mesh
3/20 bow gloves
CTA buff
Torch, Anni, and 8 bow skillers.
Thoughts? Unblockable makes this basically Bone Spear but better, as long as dex high enough for high chance to hit and damage.
Sounds honestly GG for PvP since everyone has 75% block, that’s a 4x damage bonus compared to normal attack! 8x damage vs someone with 50% DR.
But it requires the following gear to hit 49 Magic Arrow:
Mist
CoH
+2 skills Helm with IAS jewel
Highlords
BK Ring
Arachnid Mesh
3/20 bow gloves
CTA buff
Torch, Anni, and 8 bow skillers.
Thoughts? Unblockable makes this basically Bone Spear but better, as long as dex high enough for high chance to hit and damage.
Can be used to make Runewords:
Out of curiosity, have you tested this? I for one haven't so I'm genuinely curious. But generally speaking, an attack isn't necessarily automatically unblockable just because it doesn't deal physical damage. See things like Skull missile or dia's lightning hose.
What it does do though at that point is to make your mana/life leech from it become 0 as that is based on physical dmg only.
Even if it does work though, I dare say your conclusion is a bit exaggerated. True, for something like Baal it'd probably be a decent dmg boost against other skills in that same gear. However, you do have to keep in mind that to get to that level, you give up a ton of damage (8 grand slots worth of +max charms, Fortitude, ...) among other things. The conc on Mist would make up for some of that, but certainly not all of it. Mind you, I'm not saying it'd be a bad idea and even compared to an otherwise fully dmg geared zon it may actually still be a fair bit more dmg against Baal (not so much against most of the stuff on the way there though), it just shouldn't quite be 4x.
And honestly, even if you didn't have to give up all your dmg boosts, it'd be pretty hard for you to compete with Bone Spear in terms of raw damage. A necro easily hits lvl 50 BS, even in defensive gear, which gives him well over 5k average damage. "Average" being the important piece here. A zon can most certainly (and relatively easily) beat Bone Spear in terms of max dmg but since bow ama minimum damage tends to be fairly low, your average damage probably won't even be close to said Bone Spear. Just guesstimating/extrapolating, you'd probably need somewhere around 9-10k max dmg to break even (including an adjustment for expected attack speed vs. cast speed).
In terms of pvp...sure the theory of something unblockable that does solid magic dmg is great. But realistically, if your opponent is incompetent enough to actually get hit by single projectiles that only move in a straight line, then you could just use normal attacks with a broken Hunter's Bow and still win anyways (eventually). Same reason that Bone Spear isn't exactly a skill of choice for pvp.*
*Disclaimer: That opinion is based on years of league play back in the OG days. If folks today just got significantly worse at evading straight line attacks..then yeah, go for it..though the Hunter's Bow argument would still stand in that case I guess.
Edit:
Coming to think of it, and speaking purely in terms of "dmg vs. Baal" (or single-target rather, i.e. ignoring the Pierce), what you could do as well is get a +2 neck instead and drop Mist for Faith. If you then add a Might Pride merc, you get to stack all 3 auras (and with a higher lvl conc) which - if I recall correctly - apply before the dmg is converted to magic, meaning you do get full benefit, and with that, you might actually be able to hit or even exceed BS levels of avg. damage. Unless the possible extra 45% base ED can actually outweigh that..intuitively I'd say no but I certainly haven't done the math on it.
Either way, could be an interesting build to experiment with.
What it does do though at that point is to make your mana/life leech from it become 0 as that is based on physical dmg only.
Even if it does work though, I dare say your conclusion is a bit exaggerated. True, for something like Baal it'd probably be a decent dmg boost against other skills in that same gear. However, you do have to keep in mind that to get to that level, you give up a ton of damage (8 grand slots worth of +max charms, Fortitude, ...) among other things. The conc on Mist would make up for some of that, but certainly not all of it. Mind you, I'm not saying it'd be a bad idea and even compared to an otherwise fully dmg geared zon it may actually still be a fair bit more dmg against Baal (not so much against most of the stuff on the way there though), it just shouldn't quite be 4x.
And honestly, even if you didn't have to give up all your dmg boosts, it'd be pretty hard for you to compete with Bone Spear in terms of raw damage. A necro easily hits lvl 50 BS, even in defensive gear, which gives him well over 5k average damage. "Average" being the important piece here. A zon can most certainly (and relatively easily) beat Bone Spear in terms of max dmg but since bow ama minimum damage tends to be fairly low, your average damage probably won't even be close to said Bone Spear. Just guesstimating/extrapolating, you'd probably need somewhere around 9-10k max dmg to break even (including an adjustment for expected attack speed vs. cast speed).
In terms of pvp...sure the theory of something unblockable that does solid magic dmg is great. But realistically, if your opponent is incompetent enough to actually get hit by single projectiles that only move in a straight line, then you could just use normal attacks with a broken Hunter's Bow and still win anyways (eventually). Same reason that Bone Spear isn't exactly a skill of choice for pvp.*
*Disclaimer: That opinion is based on years of league play back in the OG days. If folks today just got significantly worse at evading straight line attacks..then yeah, go for it..though the Hunter's Bow argument would still stand in that case I guess.
Edit:
Coming to think of it, and speaking purely in terms of "dmg vs. Baal" (or single-target rather, i.e. ignoring the Pierce), what you could do as well is get a +2 neck instead and drop Mist for Faith. If you then add a Might Pride merc, you get to stack all 3 auras (and with a higher lvl conc) which - if I recall correctly - apply before the dmg is converted to magic, meaning you do get full benefit, and with that, you might actually be able to hit or even exceed BS levels of avg. damage. Unless the possible extra 45% base ED can actually outweigh that..intuitively I'd say no but I certainly haven't done the math on it.
Either way, could be an interesting build to experiment with.
afaik there are no +3 bow heads 
moonlit have you checked if there are other item combinations to get to the magic lvl49 ?
what about Enigma and Faith and a +2 crafted amulet amulet (or maras if you dont care for FCR)
think that would help with IAS alot.
and ofc this would be a hybrid in PVP like ossama or something
interesting patch, havent thought about it much tbh
edit: added fps tables for MB
moonlit have you checked if there are other item combinations to get to the magic lvl49 ?
what about Enigma and Faith and a +2 crafted amulet amulet (or maras if you dont care for FCR)
think that would help with IAS alot.
and ofc this would be a hybrid in PVP like ossama or something
interesting patch, havent thought about it much tbh
edit: added fps tables for MB
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Non ladder only Player.
My bad. I keep forgetting that Zons and Barbs get special treatment and don't have all of their +3 options available on circlets...
Then yeah, crafted +2 neck instead. Comment adjusted accordingly.
@Schnorki, no I haven’t tested it but it will work that way if it follows the convention of Cold Arrow and Fire Arrow.
It’s a niche thing even if it does work, it’s probably not worth speccing into just to kill Baal and Blood Lords twice as fast or whatever. Plus reapers toll does not help at all with Magic Arrow.
I’d probably wear Mist GMB myself and put Faith on A1 merc. I want the 20% item-based AR, cold duration, and 40 all res from Mist, not just the +3 skills.
It’s a niche thing even if it does work, it’s probably not worth speccing into just to kill Baal and Blood Lords twice as fast or whatever. Plus reapers toll does not help at all with Magic Arrow.
I’d probably wear Mist GMB myself and put Faith on A1 merc. I want the 20% item-based AR, cold duration, and 40 all res from Mist, not just the +3 skills.
If using Mat Bow, just 20 gloves, 20 amulet, 15 Helm gets you exactly to 8 frame without fanat. And 2 frame Strafe of course in case you want to use that as a 1 pt wonder with all your +bow skills bringing the AR up real high in 2.4.lordofgemetzel wrote: 3 years ago
what about Enigma and Faith and a +2 crafted amulet amulet (or maras if you dont care for FCR)
think that would help with IAS alot.
I really don’t like Enigma on a bowzon, except maybe for the 45% FRW. She really just doesn’t need all that strength. CoH is the way to go IMO. CoH Dusk Shroud kicks in at str 77, so that with 20 str is all you need, it lets you wear war travs, which gets you high enough to even wear Eth Titans if you want CS on switch or something. CTA bow makes many hybrid builds possible, not just fishyzon anymore.
Honestly if physical bowa with Mist, I’d probably wear mavs Belt or something with big FHR. Mavs Belt is really nice since it means you don’t need mana leech on Helm or ring, so you could even wear Shako and pump dex. Nosferatus coil is perfect if you need 10 IAS to hit a breakpoint.Crushnasty wrote: 3 years ago Since Mist has 100% Pierce there is no more need for Razortail. So what is the ideal dps Belt for bowazon now?
If magezon or hybridzon, then Arachnid Mesh for sure. Still, mavs Belt could be nice for same reasons as above. It lets you wear Shako. Arachnid Mesh means I need my 2 Zon, 30 FRW, 6 ML, etc Circlet
@Schnorki, I got the unblockable MA working and it does crazy damage, albeit slowly for me right now at 9-frame attack, using Maras, BK, Arach, Ravenfrost, and 7 skillers so I still have room in inventory for cube.
Faith merc would be ideal for 7-frame attack but I don’t have it yet.
Now looking for one more BK ring so I can hit 49 MA with Highlords instead of Maras. Will lose CBF to hit 8-frame attack with might merc.
Will upload videos once I can get the 8-frame attack. It’s wild seeing lvl 49 do literally double DPS vs lvl 48 against Baal.
Btw last time I checked, maxroll had updated to do the unblockable calculation correctly in their DPS calc. But they still were not applying crit/deadly to MA, and they’re wrong for omitting that damage.
Chance to hit Baal is fine now especially with Battle Cry from CTA decimating his defense due to high +skills gearing
Faith merc would be ideal for 7-frame attack but I don’t have it yet.
Now looking for one more BK ring so I can hit 49 MA with Highlords instead of Maras. Will lose CBF to hit 8-frame attack with might merc.
Will upload videos once I can get the 8-frame attack. It’s wild seeing lvl 49 do literally double DPS vs lvl 48 against Baal.
Btw last time I checked, maxroll had updated to do the unblockable calculation correctly in their DPS calc. But they still were not applying crit/deadly to MA, and they’re wrong for omitting that damage.
Chance to hit Baal is fine now especially with Battle Cry from CTA decimating his defense due to high +skills gearing
moonlit wrote: 2 years ago @Schnorki, I got the unblockable MA working and it does crazy damage, albeit slowly for me right now at 9-frame attack, using Maras, BK, Arach, Ravenfrost, and 7 skillers so I still have room in inventory for cube.
Faith merc would be ideal for 7-frame attack but I don’t have it yet.
Now looking for one more BK ring so I can hit 49 MA with Highlords instead of Maras. Will lose CBF to hit 8-frame attack with might merc.
Will upload videos once I can get the 8-frame attack. It’s wild seeing lvl 49 do literally double DPS vs lvl 48 against Baal.
Btw last time I checked, maxroll had updated to do the unblockable calculation correctly in their DPS calc. But they still were not applying crit/deadly to MA, and they’re wrong for omitting that damage.
Chance to hit Baal is fine now especially with Battle Cry from CTA decimating his defense due to high +skills gearing
It is an interesting concept.
Just planned it out for the hell of it. Why not go with a Faith on yourself for easy fana and 7 frames? Then you can use an a5 Bash or a2 Infinity merc to handle the defense dropping and don't have to do that yourself. Seems to push it up to 93% hit chance against dclone even.
(Unless you meant Faith on yourself and not switching to A1 with it)
You could just go for 8 skillers as well (still leaves room for cube), rather than drop your BK. Lets you keep the CBF.
Can’t have 8 skillers with torch and cube. Faith belongs on merc because we don’t need the AR boost anymore (MA has crazy AR now), it has no IAS, has one less skill point, much less damage, and critically requires wearing Razortail if you want full Pierce, which eats yet another skill point (no Arachs).
Wearing MB Mist with A1 Faith, you hit 7 frame with just 20 IAS gloves and highlords so Helm can be chammed to make up for no ravenfrost.
Wearing a massive GMB Mist with A1 Faith, you barely hit 7-frame with 20 gloves, highlords, and Andy’s with IAS jewel. Then just have Rhyme shield on switch for situational CBF (Baals cold attack is easy from far away).
Can’t do either of these without the IAS and the +3 on the bow.
Battle Cry has a huge duration, just need to cast it about twice total per fight
Wearing MB Mist with A1 Faith, you hit 7 frame with just 20 IAS gloves and highlords so Helm can be chammed to make up for no ravenfrost.
Wearing a massive GMB Mist with A1 Faith, you barely hit 7-frame with 20 gloves, highlords, and Andy’s with IAS jewel. Then just have Rhyme shield on switch for situational CBF (Baals cold attack is easy from far away).
Can’t do either of these without the IAS and the +3 on the bow.
Battle Cry has a huge duration, just need to cast it about twice total per fight
?
8 + cube is kind of the default loadout really.
I guess you're right though..this might just be the one build that actually makes Mist better. ^^
Well, for SCS and runes and the like, you can always just move 1 small charm out and not lose much or anything vital.
Though personally, I tend to clear a full 3x4 in public games, just in case. And if you're in a pug..regardless of how much more dmg you do with Magic Arrow at 49, it still won't be a noticeable difference if there's a Charged Strike java or the like already on him.
Played around with Mist/Faith a bit.
Seems you can actually get higher DPS with Faith on yourself while still keeping CBF and 100% Pierce but you're stuck using oldschool bits like arkaine's so you have an extra socket to Cham with. Opens the merc up for might/Pride which in turn does give you somewhere around 25% more dmg in perfect gear. Though the cost in that case is having crap resistances which you wouldn't have to worry about with CoH (which would then cost you the CBF again). Guess I would actually prefer Mist, too then..just cuz I'm a sucker for capped res.
Regardless of how you do it though..I put up my (phys) Zon's spec for comparison because the numbers looked so stupidly low and..well, I get the appeal, lol. The theoretical dmg per shot is significantly lower in the Magic Arrow setup (like..half) but against a target like Baal, due to block avoidance and the magic factor it actually shoots up to about twice the dps by comparison. Not too shabby...
(Though my Bone necro still doubles that against Baal yet again while keeping everything from res to proper Teleport so.. yeah ^^)
Though personally, I tend to clear a full 3x4 in public games, just in case. And if you're in a pug..regardless of how much more dmg you do with Magic Arrow at 49, it still won't be a noticeable difference if there's a Charged Strike java or the like already on him.
Played around with Mist/Faith a bit.
Seems you can actually get higher DPS with Faith on yourself while still keeping CBF and 100% Pierce but you're stuck using oldschool bits like arkaine's so you have an extra socket to Cham with. Opens the merc up for might/Pride which in turn does give you somewhere around 25% more dmg in perfect gear. Though the cost in that case is having crap resistances which you wouldn't have to worry about with CoH (which would then cost you the CBF again). Guess I would actually prefer Mist, too then..just cuz I'm a sucker for capped res.
Regardless of how you do it though..I put up my (phys) Zon's spec for comparison because the numbers looked so stupidly low and..well, I get the appeal, lol. The theoretical dmg per shot is significantly lower in the Magic Arrow setup (like..half) but against a target like Baal, due to block avoidance and the magic factor it actually shoots up to about twice the dps by comparison. Not too shabby...
(Though my Bone necro still doubles that against Baal yet again while keeping everything from res to proper Teleport so.. yeah ^^)
The Mist build with 49 Magic Arrow is primarily a Freezing Arrow build that just uses MA for cold immunes, phys immunes, champ packs, and single targets (no splash). FA is trash without solid phys backing (CoH, high dex, war Travs, high damage bow, highlords, high crit, high Penetrate). So compared to a pure phys build, it’s mainly missing like, 100 extra ED from fort, and of course 350 ED from LoH. But MA itself adds so much raw damage. Level 49 is equivalent to adding 2.5 extra war travs!
I’m planning to run lvl 48 (ravenfrost or ), with BK ring in inv to swap in to reach 49 for Baal….and for Trav! Those dudes block too….and one of the best spots to farm without Enigma
…or run 47 with raventfrosr and cats eye, swap in both highlords and BK for bosses and trav
I’m planning to run lvl 48 (ravenfrost or ), with BK ring in inv to swap in to reach 49 for Baal….and for Trav! Those dudes block too….and one of the best spots to farm without Enigma
…or run 47 with raventfrosr and cats eye, swap in both highlords and BK for bosses and trav
@Schnorki btw I forgot about Arkaines Valor, thanks for reminding me it’s kind of perfect conceptually for a build that needs skills and IAS, but yeah I would miss the other parts of CoH too much….mainly the damage
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