Real world money

syllab wrote: 3 years ago

Who donates 500usd to their favourite streamer?

Who donates $1 to any streamer? Crazy people. lol xD.

Why play video games when you can pay someone else to play them for you? -this generation

Trang Oul wrote: 3 years ago

If more and more players decide to pay instead of playing, it'll make the bots or other shady practices (duping) appear and thrive (since it's profitable to run them). We all know how unplayable original D2 with such cheats became.

With P2W PvP is even more unfair - it's dominated by those who can afford perfect gear, not who can play the best.

Exactly. It can definitely impact the game for the rest of the player base by incentivizing hacking and botting. The whole "just let people do what they want" mentality doesn't really apply when those actions clearly effect other people in a negative way. I'm hoping blizzard really cracks down on any hacks and bots this time around.

BillyMaysed wrote: 3 years ago

Why play video games when you can pay someone else to play them for you? -this generation

I don't get it either.
A friend of mine told me that he watches streams (without paying, though) because "he has no time to play, but wants to enjoy the game story" (after such an opinion more like a "friend" - I thought he was more mature).
What a nonsense. Instead of exploring the game on my own, I am supposed to watch a stream with downscaled graphics, game music muted or replaced by a random one and an overlay of a random guy constantly babbling and begging for money/subs/likes, which is a mandatory part of the stream.
If I wanted to just sit and watch, I'd watch a movie! The point of playing a game is to interact with it, not to be passive.

Trang Oul wrote: 3 years ago

What a nonsense. Instead of exploring the game on my own, I am supposed to watch a stream with downscaled graphics, game music muted or replaced by a random one and an overlay of a random guy constantly babbling and begging for money/subs/likes, which is a mandatory part of the stream.
If I wanted to just sit and watch, I'd watch a movie! The point of playing a game is to interact with it, not to be passive.

I do agree its lunacy, however, when it comes to D2 specifically i actually enjoyed watching MrLlamaSC and Dbrunski125 because they taught me a lot about the game before launch. So for educational purposes only. lol

I can speak form a "whale" perspective on this. Not for this game though, but for World of Tanks.

In World of Tanks you can buy some tanks and/or commodities that will help you unlock tanks faster, and train your crew faster and upgrade your tank faster.

With an 8-17 job, paying good money, I have probably spent +1000 dollars into that game by now (over 8 years) buying premium tanks, premium time (you get more exp and credits in form of silver/gold) and other premium stuff.

I choose to pay alot of money instead of being stuck grinding boring tanks with bad equipment and poor crew in my restricted play time.
I do this in order to get to the tanks I really want to play (like tier 8-10) and have alot of fun with them, which requires you to unlock and play all tanks in tier 1-7 to get there.

This is promoted and done in-game. I simply see if as an exchange of money vs time, like all the rest of things in my real life are.

BillyMaysed wrote: 3 years ago

when it comes to D2 specifically i actually enjoyed watching MrLlamaSC and Dbrunski125 because they taught me a lot about the game before launch. So for educational purposes only. lol

Call me dated, but IMO video tutorials are another modern cancer. They are unsearchable, load slowly, and consume a lot of data. I'd rather search the relevant info (say, how to spend skills for a particular build) in a text tutorial within seconds than watch the entire video with the author babbling and pay attention to that to find the info I want (or alternatively scroll forth and back by trial and error and hope to stop in a right moment).
While I agree that the subject may be so tricky that it has to be shown on a video, the default order should be text, then image, and then, if the former format are not suitable for presentation, video.

Trang Oul wrote: 3 years ago

Call me dated, but IMO video tutorials are another modern cancer. They are unsearchable, load slowly, and consume a lot of data.

Hey man preaching to the choir. That's literally exactly why i created the D2: New Players Guide and the Other Guides too. I just consolidated dozens of those lengthy videos into text lol.

MagnusN wrote: 3 years ago

I choose to pay alot of money instead of being stuck grinding boring tanks with bad equipment and poor crew in my restricted play time.

That's perfectly fine. That game is designed that way. I also paid hundreds over years to World of Warcraft for subs, i get the money for fun argument. But we are more so referring to games that do not have a P2W system and is created artificially through botting/hacking/shady sites.

BillyMaysed wrote: 3 years ago

How anyone spends even $1 for digital items is beyond my comprehension.

I'd pay a small amount for additional Stash Tabs. But items? hell no.

(I also remember people saying

Jah runes were going for over $500 a piece shortly after release. xD)

i get all the arguments for buying runes (limited playtime being the main one). But it just feel so very, very, very wrong. Like cheating. Maybe it is a generation thing. D2 is an old game after all and my bet is that most people playing are adults now.

To be honest I still don't get it when i see people on /r/diablo with posts like "I would pay for more shared stashes". I mean, if more shared stashes are a beneficial thing, just give them to everyone! Plus that is the kind of thing that would just make Blizz more leaning to monetize D2R (how i hate that word). My reaction is always "God damn, please leave microtransactions out of D2."

Trang Oul wrote: 3 years ago

Call me dated, but IMO video tutorials are another modern cancer. They are unsearchable, load slowly, and consume a lot of data. I'd rather search the relevant info (say, how to spend skills for a particular build) in a text tutorial within seconds than watch the entire video with the author babbling and pay attention to that to find the info I want (or alternatively scroll forth and back by trial and error and hope to stop in a right moment).
While I agree that the subject may be so tricky that it has to be shown on a video, the default order should be text, then image, and then, if the former format are not suitable for presentation, video.

Gosh and when you need to find a quick answer for something and you have to watch a 1 minute intro to the video + 2 minutes of the guy telling about why he hasn't posted last week and what the next videos are gonna be just to finally get to the 3 seconds answer that you were looking for...

Luckily as the AI-powered speech recognition capabilities of youtube grows we will soon have searchable videos. But even still i agree most stuff is better written, like build guides and etc.

So many interesting discussions in this thread...

@MagnusN regarding real money transactions, the biggest difference between World of Tanks and Diablo is that the former was built around microtransactions. You can't just buy a max-level tank and max-level pilots (I assume, and equally assume that's relevant terminology!) as there are limitations baked in. Not so in diablo where with enough jellybeans you can walk away with perfect gear in a day. Point is, it affects the inherent balance of the game.

However a more radical change to me is the level of communication now possible outside of game -- I mean have you seen a trading discord channel? For every person buying with money there may be hundreds making trades to a wider and more receptive audience than in the glory days of BBS and lobby-names. So I reckon the real money trades are a drop in the ocean.

@BillyMaysed I think you're conflating age with affluence when you talk about generational this & that... though I understand that that's 'something people say' -- especially when it comes to the image of instant-gratification-younger-generationals, who I don't think are alone when it comes to short-sighted decision making (I digress). Actually while I'm at it I'll tack on that I think the 'people paying people to play video games' has a lot of positives. There are a lot of wholesome content creators out there, and you can give the ones you like money! Compare that to a cable subscription, where the goons at Fox get another payday... Most major media outlets bank on exclusivity in favour of offering a competitive product, and as a consumer that gives me the sh**s...

@Trang Oul I would say that advertising is the modern cancer, and video guides a willing host... I think video is a suitable medium for knowledge transfer / shared experience, however the grievances you air are based in reality. I am also frustrated by needless filler, yet I do enjoy video content (being extremely selective, and ruthless to ads, helps). You know what really bums me out though, is the ad-ridden wikis that always show up on search, instead of the appealingly dated d2tombs and classic battle.net sites. Still, we have phenomenal resources like this: https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https:// ... index.html to balance out the crappiness!

In addition, I'd like to say that after paying full price for a game I have no interest in seeing any microtransactions. Games that revolve around business models are a thing of the present that have no place in D2, which I think has proven to many people (I think/hope) that a quality game with a quality atmosphere is a breath of fresh air in a time where gamers are treated more like a commodity than a community. <3

SkeletonFriend wrote: 3 years ago

@MagnusN regarding real money transactions, the biggest difference between World of Tanks and Diablo is that the former was built around microtransactions. You can't just buy a max-level tank and max-level pilots (I assume, and equally assume that's relevant terminology!) as there are limitations baked in. Not so in diablo where with enough jellybeans you can walk away with perfect gear in a day. Point is, it affects the inherent balance of the game.

In fact, often you can buy really good premium tanks with fully trained crew and bonus boosters and special premium equipment et.c. They can cost anything from 10-100 Euro!

Here are the normal premium tanks, without special "package" deals but fully trained crew, these are also pretty expensive...
https://eu.wargaming.net/shop/wot/vehicles/

Agreed, WoT was built around this from the very beginning, it is a "freemium" game.

SkeletonFriend wrote: 3 years ago

So many interesting discussions in this thread...

@BillyMaysed I think you're conflating age with affluence when you talk about generational this & that... though I understand that that's 'something people say' -- especially when it comes to the image of instant-gratification-younger-generationals, who I don't think are alone when it comes to short-sighted decision making (I digress). Actually while I'm at it I'll tack on that I think the 'people paying people to play video games' has a lot of positives. There are a lot of wholesome content creators out there, and you can give the ones you like money! Compare that to a cable subscription, where the goons at Fox get another payday... Most major media outlets bank on exclusivity in favour of offering a competitive product, and as a consumer that gives me the sh**s...

That was a very eloquent post. On the topic of streams, I watch a ton of them and love seeing people play games. Games I haven't heard of, don't want to play myself (scary games, hardcore platformers, speedruns etc.) or just enjoy watching while doing some house chores, the same way older generations would put on TV or the radio. If I want to play the game and can afford it, I'll buy the game and play it, but in many occasions it is nice to watch someone you are familiar with and appreciate play it instead, especially if you are part of their community and can feel at home. Streams are about the streamer's personality, their community and not just the game itself, most of the time. Walking away from a friendship because they enjoy watching someone play games sounds really hurtful, I'm glad I'm not your friend @Trang Oul.

Peacku wrote: 3 years ago

Walking away from a friendship because they enjoy watching someone play games sounds really hurtful, I'm glad I'm not your friend @Trang Oul.

I didn't mean that I broke the ties completely. I just don't discuss that topic (and several other), to avoid unnecessary arguments. It's just not worth it.
Friendship is based on similarities. So in case of conflicting opinions you can either share yours honestly and "hurt" a friend, or save it to yourself and pretend everything is OK.

Banjo wrote: 3 years ago

That’s 4x the cost of the game itself

You paid $20 for D2R?

Downlord wrote: 3 years ago

Banjo wrote: 3 years ago

That’s 4x the cost of the game itself

You paid $20 for D2R?

wait was it $40 bucks? i had a $20 blizzard gift card so i think i remember just paying $20 bucks and using $20 from the gift card. thats probably why i thought it was 20.

Power of real money. Dont be jealous of those people because you are broke. Enough said.

j0hn08 wrote: 3 years ago

Power of real money. Dont be jealous of those people because you are broke. Enough said.

I don't think "jealous" is the right word. If you're decidedly against purchasing digital items, that's a perspective no matter your personal Wealth. That's worth discussing IMO. So I don't think "enough said" is right, either

People saying that people purchasing items "affects the balance of the game" aren't looking at this game at all. This isn't a modern game.

There are no rewards for achieving perfect gear. No achievements. No end-game content you can do better or easier. No ranked PvP, and no rewards for PvP whatsoever. This isn't a modern game, with built-in systems that allow the powerful to grow more powerful.

If you spend money on this game, you aren't getting anything out of it, and having perfect gear won't make your farming any better or easier past a certain treshold.

No, not even if you farm a lot.

If you're spending money on the game at this stage, you're already too late to get into the market game and cash out eventually. The D2JSP bots and day-1 spenders have already cornered and controlled the market.

Any trading is essentially buying someone else's time and effort that you could not possibly put in. Found an

Ohm on your 29th travincial run and now want to trade it for that torch that you could not possibly achieve without spending another few months building smiter, getting gear for it, running for keys and so on? Here you go, you just paid someone to do it for you.

You purchased a game which is a digital item. How many people pay for Spotify, YouTube, Netflix or some other subscription/membership and why is that? I could listen to radio, watch live TV or play free games without investing anything to it but that will either force me to spend time on content I do not want or deny some of the content completely.

So, while I haven't bought D2 items from Ebay, I have traded quite a lot on d2jsp since 2007 which is not far off RMT. Why? Because this game is built around grind and back when I was 10-15 years old, I had almost unlimited time to put into this game. I have played through it so many times that just completing quests in 3 difficulties don't have that charm anymore. Running few act bosses or superuniques endlessly just won't give me what I am aiming for. Having grinded to 99 once, in hindsight I can't say it was worth the effort at all. I just don't have that time anymore - putting that effort towards marriage, kids, work and other real responsibilities is much more rewarding.

So, if my goal is to play the game where I don't have to stress about having to make 1000 (or possibly any amount ranging from 1 to 21482) Pindle runs for that

Shako, I can focus on social aspects of the game running with friends, helping others, pvp etc. That was always my end-game in Legacy. I got my two characters geared quite early, not top-tier but being able to be of help in Hell and not just a paperweight made my playtime more enjoyable, we can kill stuff and chat and fool around.

I guess what I want to say - don't mind others that much and focus more on enjoying the game yourself.

Cel wrote: 3 years ago

If you're spending money on the game at this stage, you're already too late to get into the market game and cash out eventually. The D2JSP bots and day-1 spenders have already cornered and controlled the market.

I must add that cashing out or return of investment is least of my concern. I have only acquired items which will make playing this game less of a tedious task and more of a fun time.

I would not pay for anything more than the game itself.

Have heard about people in facbook page selling

Ber for 250USD, I just feel meh.

There are many other ways to have fun with the game without additional pay.

Sutlore wrote: 3 years ago

I would not pay for anything more than the game itself.

Have heard about people in facbook page selling

Ber for 250USD, I just feel meh.

There are many other ways to have fun with the game without additional pay.

Don't forget "for me". There are many others ways for me to have fun with the game without additional pay. There are many other ways for me to have fun with the game without having to spend four months of 8-hour sessions per day to find those Enigma runes. There are other ways for me to have fun with the game without having to walk through act 3 for 1337th time.

Like most things in life, it is very much a subjective matter.

Edit: I have hard time believing anyone is buying a

Ber rune for 250USD but if they do, that is on them.

Real talk but if I find a

Ber I would absolutely look to pocket 250 USD if I could.

I do not blame people with expendable income for spending it to make their experience more enjoyable.

I do not blame people with time on their hands for trying to turn that into money, either.

If this game was competitive and had meaningful rewards gated by having good gear, people might have a case to be outraged. But there isn't. That guy over there paying 2000$ for a full set of farming gear for his Sorceress? Zero impact on you or anyone you know. Ever.

So whatever. Let people do what they want. This is an old, outdated, clunky game from two decades ago. A fair and level playing field was never on the table.

If it wasn't the people doing RMT, people would be complaining about the streamers using their viewers for free stuff. If it wasn't the streamers, people would be complaining about how unfair it is ancient players have such an Edge over newer ones.

People are always unhappy.