Confirming that some items I ignore, really have no value...

As for Claws : you can't have automods with skills on normal ones, only from some exceptional and all elites, so agreed with Fredkid, normal ones are valueless (if you manage to remember which ones are normal vs exc vs elite)

By "normal" I meant:
non-magic/rare/set/unique/crafted
(and considering all versions: normal, exceptional or elite)

So when I said

6 - normal/socket claws (bases with 2- Sockets): no relevant runeword

I was talking about
Hatchet Hands/ Fascia/ War Fist
Cestus/ Battle Cestus/ Hand Scythe
(as they can have max of 2 sockets)

But as @Knappogue pointed, even with less then 3 sockets they may have some value with the correct +Skill (as you can use rainbow facets)

And you point is important too no need to look at the claws that have no chance to have +Skill:
Normal (all): Katar, Wrist Blade, Hatchet Hands, Cestus, Claws, Blade Talons, Scissors Katar
Exceptional (the first 3): Quhab, Wrist Spike, Fascia

And this rule applies to magic/rare claws too.

https://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/i ... tars.shtml
https://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/i ... tars.shtml

Necrarch wrote: 1 year ago

As for Claws : you can't have automods with skills on normal ones, only from some exceptional and all elites, so agreed with Fredkid, normal ones are valueless (if you manage to remember which ones are normal vs exc vs elite)

fredkid wrote: 1 year ago

By "normal" I meant:
non-magic/rare/set/unique/crafted
(and considering all versions: normal, exceptional or elite)
But as @Knappogue pointed, even with less then 3 sockets they may have some value with the correct +Skill (as you can use rainbow facets)

I misunderstood your original point, so let me clairify. You do need 3 or zero sockets for plain (White) Claws to have value. Magic (blue) Claws can have serious value with 0, 1, or 2 sockets in them.

Thanks for the clarification
So.. still ignoring normal/socket:
Hatchet Hands/ Fascia/ War Fist
Cestus/ Battle Cestus/ Hand Scythe

Knappogue wrote: 1 year ago

fredkid wrote: 1 year ago

By "normal" I meant:
non-magic/rare/set/unique/crafted
(and considering all versions: normal, exceptional or elite)
But as @Knappogue pointed, even with less then 3 sockets they may have some value with the correct +Skill (as you can use rainbow facets)

I misunderstood your original point, so let me clairify. You do need 3 or zero sockets for plain (White) Claws to have value. Magic (blue) Claws can have serious value with 0, 1, or 2 sockets in them.

Hi @Knappogue

Do you think that a 2 socket staff with just 3 Fire Mastery may have any value ?

Knappogue wrote: 1 year ago

...

fredkid wrote: 1 year ago

4 - normal/socket staff (bases with 4- Sockets): no relevant runeword
(5/6 sockets on the other hand can be used for Call To Arms, Obsession or Breath of the Dying - if ethereal)

I sold a 2 socket Battle Staff that has +2fire mastery/+2hydra/+3 Meteor for a Jah. Buyer made Leaf in it and used it for >30 dueling.
...

Probably not with ONLY Fire Mastery.
Fireball, Hydra, Meteor, Fire Wall, Enchant... Any of those at +3 and find the right buyer and you can certainly sell it at a decent price.

But unlikely with just FM.

fredkid wrote: 1 year ago

Do you think that a 2 socket staff with just 3 Fire Mastery may have any value ?

FULCRUM75 is correct. Even with high other rolls they take a while to sell. I sold mine for 1 Jah and it took close to 6 months.
+3 to a skill (and nothing else) is more effective than +3 to mastery with nothing else. So you really want +3 to a desired skill or 2, AND mastery.

" 1 - normal/socket helms (2 sockets) "
-- Broadly speaking (PvM), not valuable. Anything with perfect Superior stats and more than 1 socket should get a second look for perfection collectors or possible PVP application especially if ethereal.

" 2 - magic/rare helms "
-- Again, PvM, not valuable. PvP applications are a COMPLETELY different set of criteria, and an ethereal self repair rare ANYTHING with sockets deserves consideration.

" 3 - rare/magic staves "
-- .....PvM? You're probably right. PvP? You could be missing out on a fortune.

" 4 - ...

OK ok you see where this is going. You're pretty well correct as far as PvM goes. On the magics vs. rares, take note that some stats can only roll on blues and not yellows. Like Boots can get 40%FRW if blue, but yellow can only get 30%. A low budget hell cower (non-teleporting) would prefer the 40% blues since the idea is to clear the level ASAP. It will depend on the build but other mods from the yellow Boots don't offset that 10% less FRW in a case like that.

Now enter PvP. The untold literal fortunes some PvP'ers will pay for absolute theoretical BiS for their build has gone into 5 and 6 figures of actual cash innumerable times over the years of LoD and now D2R. And there isn't much of a "easy guide to always know when something is or isn't valuable to PvP". There are some good starting bases like knowing when a rare is "good" or not. But the depth of details after that can seem endless. What's the build? What's the level req.? etc.

Your list is sound IF ignoring all of that potential reward in insane trade deals with PvP'ers seems easier than worrying about the endless intricacies PvP has. Just being a PvM farmer with your purported list I would agree pretty well suits the broad PvM meta. BTW, there's nothing at all wrong with "just PvM'ing", most people do. 99.99% of my time is PvM'ing (loot snorkeling I call it ). However, I do try to keep an eye out for desirable PvP gears AMAP because.... well, who doesn't want to collect 40x Jah for a level 24 Helm?! The PvP stuff is a LOT of info to track and continually evolves even WITHOUT content changes/updates. Those rogue builds/strats are exciting to think about, though! "Didn't think those *such n such* charges on my *such and such item* mattered, eh? HAH! GOT. YOUR. Ear. ;P"

OTS_D2_Snorkeler wrote: 1 year ago

" 1 - normal/socket helms (2 sockets) "
-- Broadly speaking (PvM), not valuable. Anything with perfect Superior stats and more than 1 socket should get a second look for perfection collectors or possible PVP application especially if ethereal.

" 2 - magic/rare helms "
-- Again, PvM, not valuable. PvP applications are a COMPLETELY different set of criteria, and an ethereal self repair rare ANYTHING with sockets deserves consideration.

" 3 - rare/magic staves "
-- .....PvM? You're probably right. PvP? You could be missing out on a fortune.

" 4 - ...

OK ok you see where this is going. You're pretty well correct as far as PvM goes. On the magics vs. rares, take note that some stats can only roll on blues and not yellows. Like Boots can get 40%FRW if blue, but yellow can only get 30%. A low budget hell cower (non-teleporting) would prefer the 40% blues since the idea is to clear the level ASAP. It will depend on the build but other mods from the yellow Boots don't offset that 10% less FRW in a case like that.

Now enter PvP. The untold literal fortunes some PvP'ers will pay for absolute theoretical BiS for their build has gone into 5 and 6 figures of actual cash innumerable times over the years of LoD and now D2R. And there isn't much of a "easy guide to always know when something is or isn't valuable to PvP". There are some good starting bases like knowing when a rare is "good" or not. But the depth of details after that can seem endless. What's the build? What's the level req.? etc.

Your list is sound IF ignoring all of that potential reward in insane trade deals with PvP'ers seems easier than worrying about the endless intricacies PvP has. Just being a PvM farmer with your purported list I would agree pretty well suits the broad PvM meta. BTW, there's nothing at all wrong with "just PvM'ing", most people do. 99.99% of my time is PvM'ing (loot snorkeling I call it ). However, I do try to keep an eye out for desirable PvP gears AMAP because.... well, who doesn't want to collect 40x Jah for a level 24 Helm?! The PvP stuff is a LOT of info to track and continually evolves even WITHOUT content changes/updates. Those rogue builds/strats are exciting to think about, though! "Didn't think those *such n such* charges on my *such and such item* mattered, eh? HAH! GOT. YOUR. Ear. ;P"

hell cower (non-teleporting)
would it be easier just get sander's green Boots...
I assume this case will happen when you play ladder and it will soon kick out within 10 hr.

And soon we will see new things(end of year let's hope they can make it good and quick), unless people keep those pvp rules same, otherwise, new items will kill old like diablo 3 new release...(that I remember I stack tons of essence, makes me ahead of everyone like 1 week.)

Sure, Sanders works. I prefer Aldur's at that rate, but imagine a Javazon using all facet gear and T-strokes clearing hell cow TZ on 8p. 1 Lightning Fury, whole screen dies. Though Aldur's would suffice, ethereal Godly Boneweave Boots of Acceleration would be SO SICK for that char (ethereal, 200% enhanced defense = like 300 def on the Boots + 40% frw). People want to underrate defense rating in D2R all too often (understandably) since the game's premise first leads players to "one-shot everything else before getting one-shotted" or "use barrage of physical based attacks + life leech or Life Tap = incoming hits irrelevant". When you're speed-cowing at the highest levels online (especially on hardcore) knowing that a glitched cow isn't going to 1-shot your hardcore lvl 96-zon is very good info to know! This is still a benefit to softcore players as well in this build because who wants to die and lose exp at that level?

A lot of it comes down to personal preference, but if you're wanting to know market values, well, there's big value in so many nuances. From a casual play perspective, if frw is the goal, then yep! Sander's is perfect! And to get some defense out of it, it can be upgraded to Scarabshells. Aldur's could be upgraded too for more defense though I don't recommend it because str. req. on Mirrored Boots being 163 isn't exactly automatically covered by most builds. (IK Boots and Nat Boots give 40 frw also). From the "min/max'ers" perspective which are the folks that will PROUDLY PAY BIG to get the ultimate top top tippy top perfect item the game can possibly offer, the blue Boots I mentioned above might be the ultimate and ONLY Boots they seek! Bang. 120x Jah. (Those Boots rolling perfect like that AND ethereal would be INCREDIBLY low drop rate lol!)

Ok with the PvP argument (and all my Knowledge about PvP is almost only what I read on this site forums and price-check threads)

But... the PvM magic boots thing, did not convence me

So here's the min/max speed cow build>

Javzon min/max for speed cow tz p8

+4/200%ed Tstroke w/ Jeweler's Monarch of Deflecting (Blue Monarch shield with 4x 5/5 lightning facets and has 30% faster block + 20% increased chance to block), ON SWITCH: ethereal 200%ed Titan's Revenge + Stormshield soc'd with Cham, ethereal Artisan's Diadem of Speed (blue Diadem with 3x 5/5 light facets, 30% FRW), ethereal Jeweler's Archon Plate of the Whale (blue Archon Plate with 4x 5/5 light facets and +100 life), 200%ed Thundergod Belt, Cat's Eye Amulet, and the rings and gloves could be a crazy number of any other combination of things (crafted stuff can be stratospheric). Any uniques would have to have perfect stats if chosen (like Raven Frost ring would have to be 250ar/20dex). But the ultimate min/maxer is probably looking past that to crafted. charms: 20/20 torch, 20/20 anni, then Jav charms with 45 life or even FRW or Gold find are all acceptable suffixes. 5 all res +20 life/FRW/ Gold find small charms to fill in the remaining inventory holes. NO TOMES. Just the Horadric Cube. One Belt column can hold scrolls of TP. Lightning sunder optional (this is a OG build before D2R). Act2 Might Merc has perfect Eth Cryptic Axe Infinity of course. perfect Eth Sacred Armor Fortitude, Perfect Eth upgraded vamp gaze + 40/15 jewel. There's a lot of options even for this focused of a build but min/maxer's take their .... "attention to detail" quite seriously. Casual "loot snorkelers" appreciate that when a perfect roll item drops for a char they're not interested in but JUST SO HAPPEN to catch the attention of a min/maxer.

It's beyond a labor of love, min/maxing (regardless of PvP/PvM). It's a life that chooses you.... ;P

Anyway, this kind of a build speed clears cows like max'd Holy Shock clears Normal Blood Moor with lvl 20 Vigor. It's crazy. Those Boots are VERY desirable! When you're farming p8 hell cows like that (and now hell cow tz's when they rotate in) for 8? 10? 12 hours a day? x days a week to maximize kills per minute at that scale, EVERY little bit helps. FRW on the SC. 40FRW blue Boots with insane defense - you bet!

Now up the stakes playing on hardcore ONLINE where lag or glitched mobs are often the Death of the most experienced players that are no stranger to getting lvl 96-99 hardcore characters. The fanatacism exists on Softcore too (probably slightly lower blood pressures

Last and actually simple tip I would advise ANYTHING that rolls perfect stats to give additional consideration regardless if ethereal. Perfect automods on perfect base stats are always a good thing even on Quilted Armor! But getting a 603 def 69 dur (15%ed+15%dur) Archon Plate (905 def 35 dur if ethereal) a lot more people can relate to. Still, don't dismiss the mighty, shiny, perfect superior Quilted Armor though! well.... at least let it have your attention to acknowledge the rare roll for 1 additional second before said dismissal anyway. It's the civilized thing to do.... XD

Sander's Riprap
Aldur's Advance
Rainbow Facet: Lightning Death / Rainbow Facet: Lightning Level-up
Thunderstroke
Immortal King's Pillar
Natalya's Soul
Thundergod's Vigor
The Cat's Eye
Annihilus
Hellfire Torch
Crack of the Heavens
Vampire Gaze

But... why Vampire Gaze instead of Andariel's Visage? for the Merc
Andariel's Visage gives more raw damage: 50% ed (+2 Skill, considering Might aura, gives +20% ed plus + 30 str) vs. 40% ed (frow jewel - as the new jewel will probably by a 30 fr one)
And Andariel's Visage gives an extra 20 ias

OTS_D2_Snorkeler wrote: 1 year ago

...Perfect Eth upgraded vamp gaze + 40/15 jewel...

With the zon's FRW and facet-Mania AND merc having Infinity, merc raw damage is irrelevant in speed cows. He never has a chance to hit anything. That's actually a GOOD thing because the idea of speed cows is to have ZERO magic find because that maximizes potential item bases (White items) drop. The -30 fres on Andy's for the merc isn't worth the tradeoff if he doesn't have a chance to hit, so something more defensive/utility is better. Rockstopper would be fine, too. Or Cure. I prefer Giant Skull on merc over Andy's anyway because of crushing blow and the 2 open sockets. Most folks like Andy's because of the perks AND getting that STR boost to use their Colossus Voulge Insight Andy's drops more often than Giant Skull, so it's cheaper to trade for.

*edit* The jewel I suggested was a "default flex" selection. Occasionally, a few Travincal runs can help break up the monotony. ...or Countess. Pit.. Pindle/Nihlithak, All of the outdoor areas in Act 5, really. Merc damage becomes relevant on those. So does the Zon's Decoy, valk and Slow Missiles XD

The build can be min/maxed a lot of different ways. Style points are important for the min/max as well. ...like flexing 40/15 jewels.