S3 soon / patch notes up

So I’m pretty excited for

Terror zones and sunder charms offline, I can finally get past level 93 without dozens of hours invested. And sunder charms should make it fun for a number of other character builds… I actually want to play assassin now!

Anyone else notice the immortal sorc just got a massive buff!!!

For us offline folks do

Terror zones just drop tc87 uniques like candy on Halloween?!

I just dropped a thorough review video tonight on Final patch notes. I've included it below if anyone is interested in checking it out.

I don't see Hustle Weapon as a significant deceleration (Nerf) for the Bowzon. BoS at level 9 was very solid, but balancing BoS + level 1

Fanaticism, especially if combined with Hustle armor, has significant output. That and the fact that with Fanta, the IAS on the skill is not subject to diminishing returns. Understand the loss of some action frames from the original, but don't sleep on the Damage/Attack of Fanta, plus the min/max increase of the overall ED%. It could have been worse...

Ultimately they wanted to make it less of a 'pre-buff' for all, and so yes, the Bow got a slight nerf, but I find it a fruitful trade-off if combined with Hustle armor.

Was very pleased they fixed

Strafe which is another way to look at positive balancing overall for the Bowzon.

Janet the Java wrote: 1 year ago

I've just got into HC. Was doing ladder for charms and TZs but now they are coming to NL then I'm happy to continue with this char rather than starting again (since I've barely started on HC anyway).

Ok thanks, I follow you now.

Teebling wrote: 1 year ago

Mosaic has been updated to

Mal +

Gul +

Amn.

BillyMaysed wrote: 1 year ago

Teebling wrote: 1 year ago

Mosaic has been updated to

Mal +

Gul +

Amn.

image.png

lol you should watch this in my video. I recorded my videos early right when it dropped and I called the original oversight out and then put a note in to clarify.

Th3ory wrote: 1 year ago

I just dropped a thorough review video tonight on Final patch notes. I've included it below if anyone is interested in checking it out.

I don't see Hustle Weapon as a significant deceleration (Nerf) for the Bowzon. BoS at level 9 was very solid, but balancing BoS + level 1

Fanaticism, especially if combined with Hustle armor, has significant output. That and the fact that with Fanta, the IAS on the skill is not subject to diminishing returns. Understand the loss of some action frames from the original, but don't sleep on the Damage/Attack of Fanta, plus the min/max increase of the overall ED%. It could have been worse...

Ultimately they wanted to make it less of a 'pre-buff' for all, and so yes, the Bow got a slight nerf, but I find it a fruitful trade-off if combined with Hustle armor.

Was very pleased they fixed

Strafe which is another way to look at positive balancing overall for the Bowzon.

I'm bummed about Hustle weapon nerf level 1

Fanaticism is almost nothing...

worstd2playerever wrote: 1 year ago

Th3ory wrote: 1 year ago

I just dropped a thorough review video tonight on Final patch notes. I've included it below if anyone is interested in checking it out.

I don't see Hustle Weapon as a significant deceleration (Nerf) for the Bowzon. BoS at level 9 was very solid, but balancing BoS + level 1

Fanaticism, especially if combined with Hustle armor, has significant output. That and the fact that with Fanta, the IAS on the skill is not subject to diminishing returns. Understand the loss of some action frames from the original, but don't sleep on the Damage/Attack of Fanta, plus the min/max increase of the overall ED%. It could have been worse...

Ultimately they wanted to make it less of a 'pre-buff' for all, and so yes, the Bow got a slight nerf, but I find it a fruitful trade-off if combined with Hustle armor.

Was very pleased they fixed

Strafe which is another way to look at positive balancing overall for the Bowzon.

I'm bummed about Hustle weapon nerf level 1

Fanaticism is almost nothing...

Well for most non-Bowzons it was used mostly as pre-buff so they wanted to "balance" to make it more applicable. I called out in my video how massive this now is for Necro Summoners as an early cheap Beast. So it certainly opened up.

BoS lvl 9 IAS was 44% and now at level 1 drops to 21%, but add in level 1 Fanta and you gain an additional 14% IAS on top of the ED/AR modifiers. So net-net you are left with 36% IAS - yes this drops some of your action frames, but you gain on the other side of Fanta, plus the min/max upgrade of the overall ED% on Hustle. So I do think it depends how you look at this overall. Is it a nerf, objectively I can see it through that lens, but conversely, I do think this is a well balanced weapon.

Now, if you combine this with Hustle Armor which gained 20% on the IAS you can help compensate for the "nerf" from BoS.

For those that know Warren and his new IAC calc he already updated it with 2.6 - him and I just caught up and he concurs on his view of Hustle similar to me as a buff vs. a nerf when you look at it holistically. The FPA loss is marginal and you can see it on his calculator.

Th3ory wrote: 1 year ago

...BoS lvl 9 IAS was 44% and now at level 1 drops to 21%, but add in level 1 Fanta and you gain an additional 14% IAS on top of the ED/AR modifiers. So net-net you are left with 36% IAS - yes this drops some of your action frames, but you gain on the other side of Fanta, plus the min/max upgrade of the overall ED% on Hustle....

But this only applies if you to use Hustle as a main weapon. That won't get you far in the endgame. Even for leveling, Harmony is the same cost, and it's better damage according to maxroll character planner.

edit, some numbers in

Blade bows with cheap gear, lvl75: Harmony, 8FPA, 2500 dps. Hustle +BoS +Fanatacism 7FPA, 2000 dps.

Nate wrote: 1 year ago

So I’m pretty excited for

Terror zones and sunder charms offline, I can finally get past level 93 without dozens of hours invested. And sunder charms should make it fun for a number of other character builds… I actually want to play assassin now!

Anyone else notice the immortal sorc just got a massive buff!!!

For us offline folks do

Terror zones just drop tc87 uniques like candy on Halloween?!

I have found literally 0 tc87 items in TZs so, er...

This is mostly on p1 or p2 though, I don't get that much time to play so only do TZs if it's a good one when I happen to be playing.

Th3ory wrote: 1 year ago

Well for most non-Bowzons it was used mostly as pre-buff so they wanted to "balance" to make it more applicable. I called out in my video how massive this now is for Necro Summoners as an early cheap Beast. So it certainly opened up.

BoS lvl 9 IAS was 44% and now at level 1 drops to 21%, but add in level 1 Fanta and you gain an additional 14% IAS on top of the ED/AR modifiers. So net-net you are left with 36% IAS - yes this drops some of your action frames, but you gain on the other side of Fanta, plus the min/max upgrade of the overall ED% on Hustle. So I do think it depends how you look at this overall. Is it a nerf, objectively I can see it through that lens, but conversely, I do think this is a well balanced weapon.

Now, if you combine this with Hustle Armor which gained 20% on the IAS you can help compensate for the "nerf" from BoS.

For those that know Warren and his new IAC calc he already updated it with 2.6 - him and I just caught up and he concurs on his view of Hustle similar to me as a buff vs. a nerf when you look at it holistically. The FPA loss is marginal and you can see it on his calculator.

The "buff" side of things only applies at early mid-gear levels though. Hustle as a leveling solution got a solid buff there, no question about it. Not just for bowzons (or plenty of other phys builds rly) but also for funky alternative uses like a cheap fana

Iron Golem or low fana merc. Lvl 1 kinda blows, but it still beats lvl 0.

What I personally was looking forward to though (quite a bit) was actually using Hustle as a proper endgame switch, effectively being an offensive weapon-switch equivalent to Treachery. Given, proc-based pre-buffing wasn't ideal to begin with but the gain at lvl 9 BoS definitely made up for it, especially as a bowzon, offering a significant boost to overall performance and more importantly fun. And I dare say that noone in their right mind would argue that bowzons are so OP that that couldn't be accepted. Given, they're also not so broken that it would've been essential..but still. More fun without leading to game-breaking OP performance = good thing!

That end-game use was really contingent on 3 things.
1) A duration long enough to make it worth the proc-investment.
2) Enough of a boost to IAS to make it actually offer a solid performance gain.
3) (Most importantly) Enough of a boost to run speed to make it worth it on that front.

#1 now drops by a massive minute and 36 seconds. That's a huge loss. And down to a measly 2 minutes uptime..anyone who ever rolled a +1 CtA knows how pathetic that is and how often you end up not even using it to begin with because of that. And that's on a self-buff. With a proc-buff, that's just even worse.

#2 goes from "take what is normally a 9 frame bow to 7 frames while still freeing up gear slots for things not focused on IAS" to "save 1 socket at best but only get to 8 frames, not 7". That, too is a massive loss compared to what it was.

And #3 goes from 51 run speed to 23. That's gigantic for a build that is entirely reliant on run speed as a proper bowzon is one of the few things without

Teleport. And considering just how much time you spend running (especially in group play), this was the true winning piece of Hustle before. Not only because it makes things massively more fun but because - at least in zones with largely open areas like CS - you were actually finally able to keep up in a run full of teleporting people with solid clear speed. Now, you're back to Harmony on swich instead, also taking you right back to barely keeping up and definitely not doing any dmg/offering any contribution whatsoever in those runs because by the time you get there, stuff is dead and you won't send off any mid-run multis because with Harmony over a real bow, that's really not even worth it. Going from 51 to 23 while Harmony still sits at 36 run is a very easy "hell no" for Hustle.
It may not sound like much if you look at the actual absolute run speed difference. But if you actually play it and contrast neither to Harmony to the original Hustle, you very clearly see how much of a difference that really makes and how baaaarely, if at all, you even keep up with Harmony today with 0 room for anything but running.

Early mid-game...yes. Cute new leveling alternative. Though I remain curious as to how many people ever actually even bother with that level of play. Based on the games available at any given time, that number has to be pretty close to 0.
For anything other than that, these changes take Hustle right back from "BiS switch for a handful specific builds" to "yet another thing to completely ignore and never bother with".

Yes, I'll still love my bowzon without it. And yes, I'll still die on the WF hill side of the (now still never-ending after all) discussion. But I would have genuinely loved for her to finally keep up in TZs while actually also contributing. But nope...right back to solo play only and/or useless leeching at best.

I've been meaning to do a dual claw martial arts assassin for a while; looking at the notes again for Mosaic, it sounds as though if you have dual Mosaic then you will never consume a

Charge and can simply spam finishing moves, can that be right? For those with some experience of MA sins: is there a big cooldown on these skills that would require you to mix in non finishing moves? Either way, presumably dual Mosaic in some nice +skills bases just became BiS for these builds? Or would they ultimately still lose out to some crazy rare

Claws?

Janet the Java wrote: 1 year ago

I've been meaning to do a dual claw martial arts assassin for a while; looking at the notes again for Mosaic, it sounds as though if you have dual Mosaic then you will never consume a

Charge and can simply spam finishing moves, can that be right? For those with some experience of MA sins: is there a big cooldown on these skills that would require you to mix in non finishing moves? Either way, presumably dual Mosaic in some nice +skills bases just became BiS for these builds? Or would they ultimately still lose out to some crazy rare

Claws?

Assuming they still stack additively post-buff, yes, you would get to 100% and be able to simply spam finishing moves. And yes, that is a massive buff to MA sins.
Finishers don't typically have a cooldown (not counting the set delay on

Dragon Flight) so you can literally just spam them and forget about the

Charge-cycling that previously balanced out the ridiculous damage of a geared, stacked finisher.

Hey, thinking of something that someone noted above: my Bone + summons necro is currently happy with Insight merc +

Clay Golem for the slow effect, as Infinity is certainly overkill for a non elemental damage dealer.

However, going to

Iron Golem with Hustle weapon for the lvl1 Fanat aura, for an acceptable fee, could actually be a very interesting buff. A sort of cheap Beast effect for summons.

What do you think ?

Necrarch wrote: 1 year ago

Hey, thinking of something that someone noted above: my Bone + summons necro is currently happy with Insight merc +

Clay Golem for the slow effect, as Infinity is certainly overkill for a non elemental damage dealer.

However, going to

Iron Golem with Hustle weapon for the lvl1 Fanat aura, for an acceptable fee, could actually be a very interesting buff. A sort of cheap Beast effect for summons.

What do you think ?

I totally agree with you. But what is really acceptable fee in D2R nowadays?

Take Care,
GP.

Schnorki wrote: 1 year ago

Janet the Java wrote: 1 year ago

I've been meaning to do a dual claw martial arts assassin for a while; looking at the notes again for Mosaic, it sounds as though if you have dual Mosaic then you will never consume a

Charge and can simply spam finishing moves, can that be right? For those with some experience of MA sins: is there a big cooldown on these skills that would require you to mix in non finishing moves? Either way, presumably dual Mosaic in some nice +skills bases just became BiS for these builds? Or would they ultimately still lose out to some crazy rare

Claws?

Assuming they still stack additively post-buff, yes, you would get to 100% and be able to simply spam finishing moves. And yes, that is a massive buff to MA sins.
Finishers don't typically have a cooldown (not counting the set delay on

Dragon Flight) so you can literally just spam them and forget about the

Charge-cycling that previously balanced out the ridiculous damage of a geared, stacked finisher.

Huh. Well, it sounds kind of fun but also like they basically just removed a whole mechanic from the game that was quite interesting. Once you know Mosaic is an option, why would you bother with anything else that keeps requiring you to

Charge?

Janet the Java wrote: 1 year ago

Huh. Well, it sounds kind of fun but also like they basically just removed a whole mechanic from the game that was quite interesting. Once you know Mosaic is an option, why would you bother with anything else that keeps requiring you to

Charge?

They basically did, yup. All you'd do moving forward is make sure you run to the next pack quick enough (or rather into DF range of it) so your stacks don't expire along the way. Other than that, the mechanic would effectively be removed from active play and turns into a flat permanent buff after the first 3 hits of the game/zone.

Schnorki wrote: 1 year ago

that is a massive buff to MA sins

well it's not like they were that buffed prior to that.
I saw some builds in here but its also very gear dependent. the budget MA girl aint so tough in hell. p8 wise of course.

Maybe I will try S3 dor a bit after all, not as if it's hard to get a couple of

Gul runes.

rikus wrote: 1 year ago

Schnorki wrote: 1 year ago

that is a massive buff to MA sins

well it's not like they were that buffed prior to that.
I saw some builds in here but its also very gear dependent. the budget MA girl aint so tough in hell. p8 wise of course.

They have an interesting range from 'crap' to 'insane' (at least purely in terms of raw dmg output). Possibly more so than any other class/skill tree.

Mweh gear = just bad.
Solid gear = still kinda lower average at best.
Perfected gear = utterly insane with multi-7-digit possible theoretical DPS (which would now become more than theoretical as the hold-back was the recharging).

That perfected gear will remain nearly impossible to get I suppose but the solid gear range is getting significant buffs with Mosaic. Just how much so...remains to be seen I guess. Gotta do some more actual testing on that (in progress).

BillyMaysed wrote: 1 year ago

Mosaic has been updated to

Mal +

Gul +

Amn.

image.png

Ty fixed