Sundered Charm (Bone Break)

Hi,

I know that Sundered charms will be ladder only, but I have one question who someone might have an answer.

Does the "

Bone Break (Physical damage received increased by 25%)" charm works with Wind druids? From the text itself, I think it should work because it should be similar to a curse (

Amplify Damage or

Decrepify) that increases my Wind damage.

So my question is if I understood it correctly or not, maybe someone tested it in on the PTR and knows it.

Thank you.

Having The

Bone Break, any monster that is immu to Physical will now has Physical resistance down to 95%.

The Physical Damage Received Increased by 25% is the damage that you receive.
That means you take more physical damage and not your physical damage is increased.

Correct.

So yes, it will work for

Tornado and whatnot because that, too will hit for 5% normal dmg after the immune gets dropped to 95. I.e. it'll be entire pointless because all you really do is extremely little dmg to the point where you might as well not do any, all while taking significantly more dmg yourself. Elemental yes, seeing how you can further drop res with -res gear but phys and even more so magic...ugh. Really the only time a phys sunder would pay off is if you're running reaper's or atmas or the like and manage to find one of the very, very few immunes that remain immune after amp/decrep.

If you can combine it with a source of

Amplify Damage or

Decrepify as OP suggests, you'll do alot more than 5% on otherwise physical immunes.

Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago

Correct.

So yes, it will work for

Tornado and whatnot because that, too will hit for 5% normal dmg after the immune gets dropped to 95. I.e. it'll be entire pointless because all you really do is extremely little dmg to the point where you might as well not do any, all while taking significantly more dmg yourself. Elemental yes, seeing how you can further drop res with -res gear but phys and even more so magic...ugh. Really the only time a phys sunder would pay off is if you're running reaper's or atmas or the like and manage to find one of the very, very few immunes that remain immune after amp/decrep.

Ah ok, thanks for clarification!

Nah. @schnorki isn't quite correct imo.

First off, i'm not sure I agree that there are "very very few" enemies who reamin ummune after decrep.

I'd agree it's true for amp, but not for decrep and tbh decrep is the most important to consider for a

Tornado -druid. Reaper has a better proc-rate then

Atma's, AND it goes on your merc which is much better. On your main you'd prefer +skill and other stats from your amulett on a

Tornado -druid (and you also don't want to worry about attack-rating).

Atma's is only a real option for weaponbased attackers (melee + amazon) - Not for

Tornado.


Second, and most important, the sundercharm will not only be a benefit on the ones that would remain immune after amp/decrep, because the sunder is applied first!

A phys-immune enemey that would previously take 20% of your damage after you apply decrep will now take much more damage as now you'll first apply the sunder and then get the full effect of decrep. The sunder will therefore be a nice buff on all phys-immunes (but yeah - it's pretty useless on it's own and needs to be combined to be effective).

Imo

Tornado -druid is among the builds who can get a huge benefit from these new charms. Saying only the elemental ones are good is wrong imo. Act 2 merc with might is a great option (and will also buff your own summons with might), the negative effect on you is managable since you're a ranged caster, and the effect when combined with decrep. is good. All in all that should make for a pretty good use of the new charms.
-There's also quite a lot of the other melee/physical builds who use an act 2 merc with Might & Reapers no matter what. A fair few others builds can therefore probably also benefit from the physical sunder-charms. They will have to think of the negative effect. The fact that

Tornado is a ranged caster makes the drawback especially managable. That won't be true for all of the others, but some have high enough defensive qualities (life / defense / blocking / phys-res) that they should be able to deal with it.

Goggen, i must say that i disgree with statement that

Tornado is ranged. think that proper term would be very close range due to how that thing works in battle. if u wanna make fast and efficient kills u have to be very close to monsters.
Also i would say that Doom Wind druid will have much more intrest in sunder cold charm because already got - enemy cold resistance from weapon.
Don't think that i will use sunder physical charm on my Doom Wind druid.

Goggen wrote: 2 years ago

First off, i'm not sure I agree that there are "very very few" enemies who reamin ummune after decrep.

Every single base-phys-immune (which isn't that many to begin with) has a res of exactly 100. So there isn't a single one that can't be broken with either amp or decrep. The only exception to that (i.e. 'very very few') are enchanted mobs with Stone skin and whatnot on top, pushing them beyond the breaking-threshold. You'll never see that in a single normal mob, unlike the multiple previously unbreakable mobs for any given elemental attack/skill. It can't be true for amp but not true for decrep btw because if anything, amp breaks more than decrep does (-100 vs. -50 base).

Though yeah, I did forget the "/or" in my previous post. It pays off when you also run reaper's/atmas/... and/or find one of the very few otherwise non-breaking immunes. The point was merely that in and by itself, without further active procs happening, you're stuck with a pathetic 5% of your normal dmg which just doesn't seem worth the trade-off since pretty much any 1-pt off-element skill will perform far better and you can't improve that in any passive way, thanks to no -physres gear but will still have to wait for procs first. Elemental, by contrast, gets passive -res from gear/skills and/or faster/aoe -res from Infinity, simply making the entire concept far superior there. Magic, on the other extreme, is stupid no matter what because you'll never get past those pathetic 5% no matter what you do.

Yeah. There's some truth in that @brgljez.

Tornado deffinetly isn't long range at least. It often has to get relatively close, however the range is generally long enough that you can relatively easy keep your hireling (and grizzly) between you and the mob while attacking.
I'd say that is the major factor when separating in melee or ranged: wheter or not you have to go toe-to-toe with the monsters and absorb melee hits whenever attacking yourself, or if you can avoid that. The

Tornado druid generally /often can avoid the incomming melee-hits (depending a bit on playstyle) so I'd say it's generally fair to classify it as ranged even if it has some limitations.

Doom-Wind might be an exception to what I said, but I still think it's generally true for the "standard"

Tornado build.
Also I'm not 100% sure you want to go with cold for that build. Even if you allready have a nice -resitance from weapon that only brings you about equal to what you get from decrep. And generally

Tornado is a higher damage attack than

Hurricane.

-Also.... you can do both. They're not exclusive options (or did I miss something).

Goggen wrote: 2 years ago

...
-Also.... you can do both. They're not exclusive options (or did I miss something).

Tornado +

Hurricane you mean?

Not only can you do both, you should do both. Since

Hurricane is a 50s toggle and not something you spam, you generally lose next to nothing keeping it active while you

Tornado stuff. And beyond that, seeing how they're not only each other's synergies but have the same remaining synergies, you'll have both of them fully maxed either way so you're not just adding some random low lvl skill on top.

Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago

It can't be true for amp but not true for decrep btw because if anything, amp breaks more than decrep does (-100 vs. -50 base).

That was exactly my point (but maybee I wasn't clear on my phrasing).
The statement: "There are very, very few mobs who remain phys-immune after the application of the debuff" is true for amp, but not for decrep (imo).

Anyway, my intention wasn't really to get bogged down on that issue, as what a person considers "often" or "rare" is fairly subjective (and for me at least it's also somewhat influensed on how noticable it is when it happens... even if that's not technically the same as frequency it's something that influences my impression).
As you say it's about the enchanted mobs with Stone skin and whatnot on top. For me those occurences are highly noticeable when I'm playing my

Tornado -druid (as they're what I struggle to kill the most, and at the same time what I'm most interested in killing compared to normal mobs), and therefore my line for what I call "very very few" occurences is quite high.
-If others have a different view then that's fine. It's as I sais quite subjective, and I wasn't trying to get stuck there.

My most important point was to clarify how the mechanic worked, and that it isn't only usefull the times you find a mob that doesn't break by application of the debuffs.

Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago

Goggen wrote: 2 years ago

...
-Also.... you can do both. They're not exclusive options (or did I miss something).

Tornado +

Hurricane you mean?

Not only can you do both, you should do both. Since

Hurricane is a 50s toggle and not something you spam, you generally lose next to nothing keeping it active while you

Tornado stuff. And beyond that, seeing how they're not only each other's synergies but have the same remaining synergies, you'll have both of them fully maxed either way so you're not just adding some random low lvl skill on top.

No. I Didn't mean

Tornado +

Hurricane. Obviously you can (and should) do both of those.

It was in reply to the comment about using the cold-breaker charm instead of phys-breaker (for the Doom-Wind), and that you could use both charms (both cold-breaker & phys-breaker).

Goggen wrote: 2 years ago

Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago

It can't be true for amp but not true for decrep btw because if anything, amp breaks more than decrep does (-100 vs. -50 base).

That was exactly my point (but maybee I wasn't clear on my phrasing).
The statement: "There are very, very few mobs who remain phys-immune after the application of the debuff" is true for amp, but not for decrep (imo).
..

That...is actually perfectly clear in your original post, now that I look at it again. Seems I'm just too tired after all..

Goggen wrote: 2 years ago

Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago

Goggen wrote: 2 years ago

...
-Also.... you can do both. They're not exclusive options (or did I miss something).

Tornado +

Hurricane you mean?

Not only can you do both, you should do both. Since

Hurricane is a 50s toggle and not something you spam, you generally lose next to nothing keeping it active while you

Tornado stuff. And beyond that, seeing how they're not only each other's synergies but have the same remaining synergies, you'll have both of them fully maxed either way so you're not just adding some random low lvl skill on top.

No. I Didn't mean

Tornado +

Hurricane. Obviously you can (and should) do both of those.

It was in reply to the comment about using the cold-breaker charm instead of phys-breaker (for the Doom-Wind), and that you could use both charms (both cold-breaker & phys-breaker).

Ah, ok. Nevermind then.

But yeah, that should work. At least it worked on the PTR (you could combine as many as you wanted to), obviously no live-testing yet. No point to have more than 1 of the same element since 95 is 95 but mixing multiple different ones worked just fine.