auradin queries

Summons and minions are considered separate entities (they are just “tethered” to you or the specific spot where you cast them - like hydras and traps). They never use your live stats, they can’t, they have their own stats. Some summons/minions inherit certain stats at cast-time, such as presence of sunder, -res% and +dmg%. What it means is that however much of these stats you have at time you summon the minion gets copied to the minion and becomes part of the minion’s own stats. This “copy” only happens at cast time and there’s no connection to your own stats post-summon. It’s easy enough to verify for a specific minion skill, like @dionisy_cn examplified.

The thing to keep in mind is that the mechanic of copying/inheritance of specific stats is not universal - i.e. it’s not programmed at a fundamental level in the game to always treat all minion skills in a consistent manner. Rather, for each minion skill, the game files define exactly which stats the minion inherits, if any, and this varies wildly from skill to skill. For Bind Demon, for example, the bound demon inherits physical sunder effect but no physical -res. For Raise Skeletal Mage, the mages inherit sunder effect for cold, fire, lightning and poison, but no -res% or +dmg%. Hydra inherits fire sunder, -EFR% and +FSD%. Fire Golem inherits fire sunder but that’s it. Revive inherits all 6 sunder effects but that’s it. Lightning Sentry inherits Lightning sunder, -ELR% and +LSD%. Death Sentry inherits lightning sunder, fire sunder, physical sunder, -ELR%, -EFR%, +LSD% and +FSD% (but I’m not sure if the last one even matters for CE damage?). All of this is specified in the game files, per skill.

I’m not sure if every single skill has been thoroughly tested to verify that it works as expected (based on what the game files say) in terms of sunder, -res%, +dmg%, as well as the part with stats being snapshot at cast time. If I had more time I might try to look into this more myself (also assuming I was less lazy ).

ShadowHeart wrote: 18 hours ago

Summons and minions are considered separate entities (they are just “tethered” to you or the specific spot where you cast them - like hydras and traps). They never use your live stats, they can’t, they have their own stats. Some summons/minions inherit certain stats at cast-time, such as presence of sunder, -res% and +dmg%. What it means is that however much of these stats you have at time you summon the minion gets copied to the minion and becomes part of the minion’s own stats. This “copy” only happens at cast time and there’s no connection to your own stats post-summon. It’s easy enough to verify for a specific minion skill, like @dionisy_cn examplified.

The thing to keep in mind is that the mechanic of copying/inheritance of specific stats is not universal - i.e. it’s not programmed at a fundamental level in the game to always treat all minion skills in a consistent manner. Rather, for each minion skill, the game files define exactly which stats the minion inherits, if any, and this varies wildly from skill to skill. For Bind Demon, for example, the bound demon inherits physical sunder effect but no physical -res. For Raise Skeletal Mage, the mages inherit sunder effect for cold, fire, lightning and poison, but no -res% or +dmg%. Hydra inherits fire sunder, -EFR% and +FSD%. Fire Golem inherits fire sunder but that’s it. Revive inherits all 6 sunder effects but that’s it. Lightning Sentry inherits Lightning sunder, -ELR% and +LSD%. Death Sentry inherits lightning sunder, fire sunder, physical sunder, -ELR%, -EFR%, +LSD% and +FSD% (but I’m not sure if the last one even matters for CE damage?). All of this is specified in the game files, per skill.

I’m not sure if every single skill has been thoroughly tested to verify that it works as expected (based on what the game files say) in terms of sunder, -res%, +dmg%, as well as the part with stats being snapshot at cast time. If I had more time I might try to look into this more myself (also assuming I was less lazy ).

Do you know how you make us feel when you call yourself lazy after all this digging through game files?

I'm too lazy to play D2 right now.

Gave my DragonDin the A5 FrenzyBarb with 2 ethereal Crescent Moon Cryptic Swords (and Andy + Forti). Works nice.

The Pala has a 3 socket / 30 Faster Run/Walk (FRW) Tiara with 2 perfect fire facets and 1 Fire Colossal Ancients Stone.
Then Mavina Belt for further 20 FRW and War Traveller with MF and 25 FRW. If more Run speed is need exchange the War Travellers for Boots with 40 FRW, like Aldurs.
I love speeding across the map, burning everything to a crisp across the whole map and even further...

ShadowHeart wrote: 18 hours ago

Summons and minions are considered separate entities (they are just “tethered” to you or the specific spot where you cast them - like hydras and traps). They never use your live stats, they can’t, they have their own stats. Some summons/minions inherit certain stats at cast-time, such as presence of sunder, -res% and +dmg%. What it means is that however much of these stats you have at time you summon the minion gets copied to the minion and becomes part of the minion’s own stats. This “copy” only happens at cast time and there’s no connection to your own stats post-summon. It’s easy enough to verify for a specific minion skill, like @dionisy_cn examplified.

The thing to keep in mind is that the mechanic of copying/inheritance of specific stats is not universal - i.e. it’s not programmed at a fundamental level in the game to always treat all minion skills in a consistent manner. Rather, for each minion skill, the game files define exactly which stats the minion inherits, if any, and this varies wildly from skill to skill. For Bind Demon, for example, the bound demon inherits physical sunder effect but no physical -res. For Raise Skeletal Mage, the mages inherit sunder effect for cold, fire, lightning and poison, but no -res% or +dmg%. Hydra inherits fire sunder, -EFR% and +FSD%. Fire Golem inherits fire sunder but that’s it. Revive inherits all 6 sunder effects but that’s it. Lightning Sentry inherits Lightning sunder, -ELR% and +LSD%. Death Sentry inherits lightning sunder, fire sunder, physical sunder, -ELR%, -EFR%, +LSD% and +FSD% (but I’m not sure if the last one even matters for CE damage?). All of this is specified in the game files, per skill.

I’m not sure if every single skill has been thoroughly tested to verify that it works as expected (based on what the game files say) in terms of sunder, -res%, +dmg%, as well as the part with stats being snapshot at cast time. If I had more time I might try to look into this more myself (also assuming I was less lazy ).

Re: bound demon inherits the physical sunder effect, but no physical -res

Is this specified differently for each sunder, or does it apply to all? (phys,fire,light,cold, pois,mag)

Reason I ask is because I have Flickering Flame Resist Fire aura, and if I remove my sunder in town and go out of town, my demon immediately gains fire immunity. If I put my sunder back on and go out of town, he loses it.

Presumably this is because either:
a) The -70 res from the sunder is carrying over to the demon (and based on my calcs this would put him under 100 again) or

b) The game is incorrectly displaying or actually sundering the demon as an "enemy" down to 95%, per the sunder effect. Seems less likely, but is possible. My character screen constantly references a "Dark Lancer" chance to hit % on my defense if I haven't super recently been hit by an enemy, so not sure if it is thinking my demon Dark Lancer is an enemy.

varangium wrote: 8 hours ago

b) The game is incorrectly displaying or actually sundering the demon as an "enemy" down to 95%, per the sunder effect. Seems less likely, but is possible

I'm pretty sure this is the case, i imagine the game doesn't know to discriminate when it displays a monster's immunes. Sundering is on the player's side and doesn't change the monster's actual resists (at least it seems that way, it doesn't work for merc or party members) so i think it's just looking up if you have x sunder and removing x immunity from the display. Since it's not something the game could tell by peeking at the monster's stats

envy you.. still stuck at lvl 37 with those bloody hammers..

wulfen777 wrote: 8 hours ago

Gave my DragonDin the A5 FrenzyBarb with 2 ethereal Crescent Moon Cryptic Swords (and Andy + Forti). Works nice.

The Pala has a 3 socket / 30 Faster Run/Walk (FRW) Tiara with 2 perfect fire facets and 1 Fire Colossal Ancients Stone.
Then Mavina Belt for further 20 FRW and War Traveller with MF and 25 FRW. If more Run speed is need exchange the War Travellers for Boots with 40 FRW, like Aldurs.
I love speeding across the map, burning everything to a crisp across the whole map and even further...

ganseng wrote: 1 hour ago

envy you.. still stuck at lvl 37 with those bloody hammers..

I feel you...

My first Pala was also a Hammerdin WITHOUT Enigma for a very long time, so yeah, I know exactly what you mean.
Though the killspeed was good and the hunt for good drops worked out - moving across the map was kind of "snail-like" compared to my "Roadrunner-Dragondin".

DeldiRe wrote: 9 hours ago

A good use case would be for the Druid then phys cold and poison sunder and then summon all before removing sunders not needed. No?

Indeed!
(though with the new renewed sunders, you might still consider wearing one of them for the other additional stats - assuming you don't mind the resist penalty to yourself)

dionisy_cn wrote: 6 hours ago

@ShadowHeart
thank you for such full list of minions. Pity to know that Fire Golem gets no other -fire resists. I had plans to test it once ill get my first Hand of Justice. Does Fire Mastery from Trang Owl set boosts Fire Golem like it does for Hydras or no effect there too?

No, Fire Mastery and +FSD% is lumped together as a single stat in the game files when it comes to this. When relevant (for minion skills where it is applicable), the game sums your total +FSD% from Fire Mastery and gear combined, and copies that to the minion. Fire Golem doesn't inherit any +FSD%, including from Fire Mastery. It would make the aura pulse damage a little better if it did, but it would still kind of suck. ( Fire Golem is one of those skill that could use a little buff)

Fire Golem basically has an unsynergized Holy Fire aura that caps at level 30. If it was affected by +FSD% and wasn't capped (the aura level is calculated as skill level +7), it would be a little than it is now. Assuming +11 to Fire Mastery (+3 from the set and total +8 to All Skills from gear), with an uncapped aura level, a level 40 Fire Golem's aura would pulse at 271-321, instead of 67-84. Still kind of crap, but better at least (and could be improved further with +FSD% on gear). But that's just theoretical for now.

varangium wrote: 8 hours ago

Re: bound demon inherits the physical sunder effect, but no physical -res

Is this specified differently for each sunder, or does it apply to all? (phys,fire,light,cold, pois,mag)

It's very specific. Each sunder effect has a different stat name when referenced by skills.txt - they're named

• item_pierce_cold_immunity
• item_pierce_fire_immunity
• item_pierce_light_immunity
• item_pierce_poison_immunity
• item_pierce_damage_immunity
• item_pierce_magic_immunity

(and -res%/+dmg% have their own stat names too, also referenced specifically where applicable)

The skills.txt file specifically refers to each one where applicable - for Revive it specifically lists each of the 6 (specified in the columns passivestat2-passivestat7* - and if you're wondering about passivestat1 that one is used for Fire Golem's "velocity"). For Bind Demon it only lists the physical sunder effect (it's actually listed twice for some reason - which was mentioned in Pavke's Reddit post about Bind Demon bugs), you can see a description of all of the Bind Demon skill's passive stat calculations in that post, as of patch 3.2 anyway).

* there's space reserved for up to 14 total passive stats per skill, most of them are blank for most skills

varangium wrote: 8 hours ago

Reason I ask is because I have Flickering Flame Resist Fire aura, and if I remove my sunder in town and go out of town, my demon immediately gains fire immunity. If I put my sunder back on and go out of town, he loses it.

Presumably this is because either:
a) The -70 res from the sunder is carrying over to the demon (and based on my calcs this would put him under 100 again) or

b) The game is incorrectly displaying or actually sundering the demon as an "enemy" down to 95%, per the sunder effect. Seems less likely, but is possible. My character screen constantly references a "Dark Lancer" chance to hit % on my defense if I haven't super recently been hit by an enemy, so not sure if it is thinking my demon Dark Lancer is an enemy.

Like @kerph, I think it's b, but I don't know for sure. I had actually been meaning to do some tests with Bind Demon when it comes to immunities and immunity breaking skills/effects, but I haven't gotten around to it yet.