Are Griffon and Infinity overrated?

I know that in theory they should make a HUGE impact - doubling to multiplying your damage but when I got my first griffon yesterday and my first inifity as well I was somewhat disappointed.
I am playing a javazone but I don't think that my

Baal run was any fast than usually - or is this noticeable only in higher player settings?

Sunder charms made Infinity have less noticeable effect (since it's not the only thing that can break immunities along with

Conviction and Amp dmg/Decrep) and OP builds usually don't have that "power spike" anyways when changing gear. Especially on players 1-3!

I would say yes most of the time, they are. Weeeeell, at least Griffon's, just for the fact it's god damn hard to find one (unlike Infinity nowadays which costs drastically fell off). Now I'm not saying there are builds where Griffon's and Infinity aren't necessary. I'm also not saying that they are NOT BiS, I'm just stating that on most meta builds that can be boosted with Infinity and Griffon's you can alternatively run almost naked and be completely fine.

Yes, power creep is more meaningful on higher players count and/or on HC where you actually want to basically min-max so nothing surprises you.

There. Now I'm ready for all of the hate that's incoming. xd

Yea i remember my first Infinity, put it on my merc and i was like: ok game be prepared to get broke!

And it was like: “Nah, get more -res and I’ll care more”

Either aren’t game changing in and of themselves, they need a bit more supporting gear/facets and the right builds

They Infinity griffon combo is most noticeable for the chars that wear them at the same time:

Nova sorcs, lightning trapsins, and spearazons. For all others they add value just isn’t as crazy (still better than most builds though)

Nate2.0 wrote: 11 months ago

They Infinity griffon combo is most noticeable for the chars that wear them at the same time:

Nova sorcs, lightning trapsins, and spearazons. For all others they add value just isn’t as crazy (still better than most builds though)

This. Though

Griffon's Eye is always useful on any lightning-based build, wielding the Infinity yourself grants you not just the

Conviction aura but the massive -(45-55)% to enemy lightning resistance too. I have a spearzon with both items this ladder and it's insane how fast dclone melts. Literally vaporizes him in a couple of pokes.

TheDoo wrote: 11 months ago

...
you can alternatively run almost naked and be completely fine.
...

That's the important piece really.
Going in as a javazon on P1 (same applies to plenty other builds), you kill everything in 1-2 attacks anyways.

Griffon's will add to those attacks. But it isn't exactly a massive difference. The +dmg is nice but some of it gets lost again by only having 1 skill point as opposed to 2 or 3 (among other reasons). The -res is nice but on low res mobs won't make a truly visible difference. Especially if you already have other -res, let alone Infinity.
Where griffon's really shines is..
1) On builds that need it to hit their faster cast breakpoint
2) Against broken immunes/high res mobs as -res does make a significant and very noticeable difference there; especially on immunes that drop Infinity's efficiency to 1/5th, making other -res significantly relatively stronger

Infinity is kind of the opposite. It used to be mandatory to break (at least some/most) light immunes but that went away with sunders. Since then, it remains a massive boost on low to mid res mobs as even if you have other -res, -85 is a very noticeable chunk and basically adds 50 to 200ish % real damage. Against immunes however, Infinity is significantly worse and less noticeable as it then only adds -17 which is still a decent amount against things that start off at 95 post-sunder but is significantly less than what you can get from your other gear already, meaning your relative real gain is equally far lower.
(That's merc-Infinity anyways...self-wield Infinity is massive against light immunes but obv. not an option for all builds, including javazons)

Even the massive -85 chunk on a mid res mob from Infinity for 200% more real damage however makes no real difference if you're running an otherwise semi-geared OP meta build on P1. Going from 1-2 hits to kill to still 1-2 hits to kill is factually no difference. Initially, your 1-2 may have been due to damage variance or low vs high life mobs and now they're "1 if Infinity ticks instantly for massive overkill, 2 if the 1st hits before Infinity's

Conviction ticks to apply" but they're still 1-2 hits. Reasoning changes, outcome does not. Even more so because as a javazon, you don't typically throw, wait to see if that's enough and then throw again. You'll have 2+ javelins in the air before you ever see how much dmg the first one caused. Even more so on

Baal as you pre-throw into the spawning waves. So again, no real difference despite a massive theoretical boost.

A real difference in these cases simply isn't noticed until you go for higher player counts or run a build that happens to make it more obvious (i.e. isn't quite as overkill without them).

Personally, I think there's better overall alternatives to Griffon's in a few cases as you do have to adjust your other gear to "make up for having griff's" on some builds. But Infinity...that's nearly impossible to beat on basically all elemental builds other than cold sorcs and pallies with their own conv.

Recently with my Lightning Sorceress with 3 piece Tal Rasha's Wrappings,
after some calculations, I end up preferring Tal Rasha's Wrappings complete set over

Griffon's Eye +

The Oculus / Heart of the Oak
(complete set has -15 to Lightning Resist equivalent to a low

Griffon's Eye and end up directly with higher Resist/Life/Mana/FHR and indirectly with more FCR and Lightning Skill Bonus, because could replace some 'Resist Equipment' with the extra resist from the set)

Self wield Infinity is BiS for lightning sorc, no?

I have no experience with amazon, but my trapsin had a huge boost in kill speed with Griffons and Infinity (plus Crescent Moon). Besides, it helps getting to 102% FCR. Dclone went from lasting a minute or 2 to basically evaporating.

Dromar186 wrote: 11 months ago

Self wield Infinity is BiS for lightning sorc, no?

I have no experience with amazon, but my trapsin had a huge boost in kill speed with Griffons and Infinity (plus Crescent Moon). Besides, it helps getting to 102% FCR. Dclone went from lasting a minute or 2 to basically evaporating.

There are some builds that self wield Infinity, but you have to use specific itens on other places to reach FCR and Resists...
I saw this more on

Nova build (that use

Energy Shield and sometimes Merc with Insight and

Prayer Aura - that synergise with

Meditation)

Lightning/

Chain Lightning normally go for Crescent Moon (which already gives a huge -resist) + Spirit Shield (it was my set up for a long time - but recently I end up preffering the Full Tal Rasha's Wrappings)

Do trapsins do self wield infitiy over 2

Claws? Or who else would be self wield?

I rolled one with -55% but mediocre Ed in a

Eth

Thresher - looking for the best use case other then putting it on a merc (which is of course also 100% fine)

Okay, I read that it is a good idea but that base is mediocre at best. 10 too slow and 142 Str and high dex req.

xigua wrote: 11 months ago

Do trapsins do self wield infitiy over 2

Claws? Or who else would be self wield?

I rolled one with -55% but mediocre Ed in a

Eth

Thresher - looking for the best use case other then putting it on a merc (which is of course also 100% fine)

Okay, I read that it is a good idea but that base is mediocre at best. 10 too slow and 142 Str and high dex req.

I can't speak for the validity of use Infinity on a an assassin, since I don't play those. But you definitely CAN self wield the ethereal

Thresher Infinity. As long as you aren't physically hitting enemies with the

Thresher. Casting a spell doesn't use durability. I have an

Nova sorc that self wields an

Eth Infinity for about 3 months now and it still has max durability.
Your -55 res roll with poor ED is perfect for self use.

True - only issue is high str and dex requirement over a

Brandistock and for trapsins the lower attack speed.
Any reason why a soso should invest 143 Str or 118 dex - I mean not terrible but I think I will keep it on my Mercn- or am I missing something?

xigua wrote: 11 months ago

Do trapsins do self wield infitiy over 2

Claws? Or who else would be self wield?

I rolled one with -55% but mediocre Ed in a

Eth

Thresher - looking for the best use case other then putting it on a merc (which is of course also 100% fine)

Okay, I read that it is a good idea but that base is mediocre at best. 10 too slow and 142 Str and high dex req.

Consider Crescent Moon as well.