Blizz Sorc with Sunder: How many points to Cold Mastery?

I'm here with another Sorc question and caption says it all, but let me lay it down a little bit more. I'm trying to use char planner on Maxroll and a Blizz Sorc is apparently with max

Cold Mastery recommended. But I guess I can't understand the fundamental stuff here. With additional skills from items and stuff, my designed

Cold Mastery is -225 to enemy cold res. What is the optimal value here, since Sunder Charm makes it 95 cold res for the cold immunes and -225 seems a little bit over it. I'd like to see the opinions here.

As far as I know, a monster can have as low as -100% resistance to cold (as an example).

This being said, -195% cold resist from items / skills (provided you are using a Cold Sunder charm) will be enough to bring any monster in the game down to the maximum negative resistance.

Cold Mastery almost never have to be maxed!

With skills lvl 27 is enough, so you are at -150 and nearly every monster is at -100 coldres.

The broken ones are at -55

With Sprit+Spirit, Harle, Viper, 2x SoJ, torch, anni and 5 skillers you need only 8 points into mastery to reach 27

Thanks for the answers.

ALLEyezOnMe wrote: 2 years ago

As far as I know, a monster can have as low as -100% resistance to cold (as an example).

This being said, -195% cold resist from items / skills (provided you are using a Cold Sunder charm) will be enough to bring any monster in the game down to the maximum negative resistance.

This.

Not using a sunder makes no difference really because anything higher will be immune anyways, which mastery can't break (and neither can anything else for most cold immunes).

So 195 - however much -res you get from facets = what you want your

Cold Mastery to take off.
In BiS gear, that's typically somewhere around 10 hard points, give or take, depending on exact gear choices.

The exception is of course PvP in which you may want more than -195 total.

Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago

ALLEyezOnMe wrote: 2 years ago

As far as I know, a monster can have as low as -100% resistance to cold (as an example).

This being said, -195% cold resist from items / skills (provided you are using a Cold Sunder charm) will be enough to bring any monster in the game down to the maximum negative resistance.

This.

Not using a sunder makes no difference really because anything higher will be immune anyways, which mastery can't break (and neither can anything else for most cold immunes).

So 195 - however much -res you get from facets = what you want your

Cold Mastery to take off.
In BiS gear, that's typically somewhere around 10 hard points, give or take, depending on exact gear choices.

The exception is of course PvP in which you may want more than -195 total.

https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/y70106vi

This build. It seems need 14 hardpoints on CM. It actually doesn't matter but spare points can be given on FO.

Thanks.

Of course forgot to ask about: If merc has Infinity, what changes?

basicnecromancy wrote: 2 years ago

Of course forgot to ask about: If merc has Infinity, what changes?

You "shouldn't" be using Infinity on a Blizzard Sorceress with a Sunder Charm. Pick something else, like Insight

ALLEyezOnMe wrote: 2 years ago

basicnecromancy wrote: 2 years ago

Of course forgot to ask about: If merc has Infinity, what changes?

You "shouldn't" be using Infinity on a Blizzard Sorceress with a Sunder Charm. Pick something else, like Insight

Why so exactly?

Against non immu monsters : lvl 12

Conviction = -85% resistances => It could save you some points into

Cold Mastery

Against immu monsters : sunder makes them 95% resistances. Then lvl 12

Conviction brings it to 95- (85/5 = 17) = 78%.
You still need some points into

Cold Mastery.
Infinity will save you 17% or bit more than 3 points into

Cold Mastery.

basicnecromancy wrote: 2 years ago

Why so exactly?

Infinity only works at 1/5th effectiveness against immune monsters, including such that have been broken by the Sunder Charm.

Example - a Sunder Charm breaks the immunity of a monster and sets its resistance to 95%. After this, Infinity's

Conviction Aura will only reduce the monster's resistance by another 17%, instead of the full 85%. This makes it super underwhelming for this build and I wouldn't recommend using it.

ALLEyezOnMe wrote: 2 years ago

Infinity only works at 1/5th effectiveness against immune monsters, including such that have been broken by the Sunder Charm.

Example - a Sunder Charm breaks the immunity of a monster and sets its resistance to 95%. After this, Infinity's

Conviction Aura will only reduce the monster's resistance by another 17%, instead of the full 85%. This makes it super underwhelming for this build and I wouldn't recommend using it.

I see. It also helps to spare a few points from CM, but doesn't worth the price I guess. Thanks.

basicnecromancy wrote: 2 years ago

I see. It also helps to spare a few points from CM, but doesn't worth the price I guess. Thanks.

Yep, not at all. Not to mention the huge QoL improvement an Insight brings to the table

basicnecromancy wrote: 2 years ago

Of course forgot to ask about: If merc has Infinity, what changes?

Infinity will take 85 res off non-immunes.
On immunes, assuming a sunder, it will take off 17 res.
On immunes with no sunder, it will typically not do anything because most cold immunes can't be broken (the traditional main reason cold never bothered with Infinity).

So at the very best, it takes off 85 res which is the equivalent of 17 points in

Cold Mastery.
At the same time, most cold builds don't even need 17 points in

Cold Mastery as gear overcaps them anyways and you still need 1 hard point no matter what (unless your gear gives flat +mastery to unlock it). As a result, the actual best-case points saved would be around 9-11, give or take.
BUT you still want to account for the worst case so all that doesn't actually matter as you will aim for -res capping even on prior immunes. So Infinity will offer -17 res for your real planning which saves you either 3 or 4 skill points in

Cold Mastery, depending on your facet rolls and whatnot. 3 with perfect rolls as they all come in 5s as well.

So in essence, Infinity saves a cold sorc 3 points in

Cold Mastery. That's it. And most cold sorcs typically aren't all too pressed for skill points so that's really not that big of a benefit. If you go with something like Insight instead for example, you can drive your regen up to just stupid amounts and merrily enable immortal ES builds and all that jazz on top. Or even self-sustaining semi-immortal ones because Insight has a fun little interplay with A2 mercs...if you go with

Prayer, the merc's

Prayer counts as the synergy for Insight's

Meditation, effectively doubling the healing you get from the merc, making it actually not bad at all. And since cold brings its own slow, you won't be missing merc freeze much. Merc might if he does a lot of the work..sure..but if he does, you're just being lazy.

Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago

basicnecromancy wrote: 2 years ago

Of course forgot to ask about: If merc has Infinity, what changes?

Infinity will take 85 res off non-immunes.
On immunes, assuming a sunder, it will take off 17 res.
On immunes with no sunder, it will typically not do anything because most cold immunes can't be broken (the traditional main reason cold never bothered with Infinity).

So at the very best, it takes off 85 res which is the equivalent of 17 points in

Cold Mastery.
At the same time, most cold builds don't even need 17 points in

Cold Mastery as gear overcaps them anyways and you still need 1 hard point no matter what (unless your gear gives flat +mastery to unlock it). As a result, the actual best-case points saved would be around 9-11, give or take.
BUT you still want to account for the worst case so all that doesn't actually matter as you will aim for -res capping even on prior immunes. So Infinity will offer -17 res for your real planning which saves you either 3 or 4 skill points in

Cold Mastery, depending on your facet rolls and whatnot. 3 with perfect rolls as they all come in 5s as well.

So in essence, Infinity saves a cold sorc 3 points in

Cold Mastery. That's it. And most cold sorcs typically aren't all too pressed for skill points so that's really not that big of a benefit. If you go with something like Insight instead for example, you can drive your regen up to just stupid amounts and merrily enable immortal ES builds and all that jazz on top. Or even self-sustaining semi-immortal ones because Insight has a fun little interplay with A2 mercs...if you go with

Prayer, the merc's

Prayer counts as the synergy for Insight's

Meditation, effectively doubling the healing you get from the merc, making it actually not bad at all. And since cold brings its own slow, you won't be missing merc freeze much. Merc might if he does a lot of the work..sure..but if he does, you're just being lazy.

Thanks again. Actually going with

Prayer merc is a solid tip. Planning to try.