I lost interest in D2R because of Sunder charms

ALLEyezOnMe wrote: 2 years ago

Crispin wrote: 2 years ago

yeah, I wonder if that makes any difference with some strong builds. I guess it doesn't.

Well, it still would, but it all depends on whether you care about the time you would save by doing the most damage possible or not.

Some people are super focused on clearing the areas as quickly as possible, others don't care all that much

y'all are right, it makes even the strongest builds stronger.

for strong builds it just slightly reduces the time until the mob drops, but I think this will not be much.

it will be a game changer for weak builds.

Ravoc wrote: 2 years ago

Pretty sure driving a bicycle on a highway is illegal :p

Ye but Sunder charms are legal. I never played D2 because I wanted to run all the builds I wanted. Builds were just a means to overcome the obstacles that game gave me in an interesting way and now it's gone. I really wanted this game to be more challenging, to have MORE dual resistances and stuff like that. At the same time I hoped they will buff skills in niche builds so they will have some interesting ways of coping with that. Instead there is a one-size-fits all solution that allows all the builds to do everything.

Also weaker builds will be comparatively much weaker. If you buff lightning sorc (that was S tier in the first place) by 100% and fire paladin by 100% (that was like C tier), the gap just widens immensely. Thus there is even more incentive to play just a few best builds.

So I guess people like me are ignored. It changes the game completely IMO it flips the game dynamics upside down and I just don't like that. Thus this is it for me. It will be a completely different game from now on.

I think they should have just make a hard fork of the game or introduce new gameplay mode with no immunities etc (softcore/hardcore/no immunities).

Crispin wrote: 2 years ago

it will be a game changer for weak builds.

I bet the mageazon still sucks.

Snakecharmed wrote: 2 years ago

Crispin wrote: 2 years ago

it will be a game changer for weak builds.

I bet the mageazon still sucks.

It does suck even with Sunder.

The only hope now to keep the community intact and everyone happy is the new game mode with no resistances (and leaving the current ones as-is) I think.

Also let that new game mode to drop Amulets with +

Teleport, so there is no need for farming high runes (just add amulets that can have +

Teleport oskill as a random mod). Everyone will be happy then. I seriously think that would be the best solution to appease everyone.

alright, if you're adamant about not playing anymore, I'll take your stuff.

called it.

first XD

Crispin wrote: 2 years ago

alright, if you're adamant about not playing anymore, I'll take your stuff.

called it.

first XD

No chance, I will just sell it for real money and have a nice weekend somewhere. I have at least 20-30

Ber worth of stuff, all grinded or traded.

The thing that gets me is the needless complexity in fabricating half-baked solutions.

So let's say we have players who passionately hate the monster immunities, and there certainly are players who do.

Would the simplest solution not be to revert back to D2 classic 1.07 and earlier behavior and remove immunities altogether? What is with these unnecessary extra steps of the sundering charms? What is the goal of this new feature and what issue is it truly supposed to address? Because it looks like to me these devs are trying to slice their wrists with Occam's razor.

Snakecharmed wrote: 2 years ago

The thing that gets me is the needless complexity in fabricating half-baked solutions.

So let's say we have players who passionately hate the monster immunities, and there certainly are players who do.

Would the simplest solution not be to revert back to D2 classic 1.07 and earlier behavior and remove immunities altogether? What is with these unnecessary extra steps of the sundering charms? What is the goal of this new feature and what issue is it truly supposed to address? Because it looks like to me these devs are trying to slice their wrists with Occam's razor.

That's what I'm saying. Just make a new game mode you can choose when creating a character "softcore" / "hardcore" / "no immunities ez mode".

louner wrote: 2 years ago

Crispin wrote: 2 years ago

alright, if you're adamant about not playing anymore, I'll take your stuff.

called it.

first XD

No chance, I will just sell it for real money and have a nice weekend somewhere. I have at least 20-30

Ber worth of stuff, all grinded or traded.

dammit XD

Snakecharmed wrote: 2 years ago

The thing that gets me is the needless complexity in fabricating half-baked solutions.

So let's say we have players who passionately hate the monster immunities, and there certainly are players who do.

Would the simplest solution not be to revert back to D2 classic 1.07 and earlier behavior and remove immunities altogether? What is with these unnecessary extra steps of the sundering charms? What is the goal of this new feature and what issue is it truly supposed to address? Because it looks like to me these devs are trying to slice their wrists with Occam's razor.

Removing them entirely would've also buffed hammerdins even more which wouldn't have meshed with the "ZOMG NERF HAMMERDINS WUAEHHHH!" all over.
So instead, buff nearly every other meta build even more (and some currently mediocre builds, admittedly) while at the same time not only not significantly buffing hammerdins but also leaving bonemancers, any summoner build, trapsins and any physical build in the dust (you know...all them builds everyone considers massively OP *cough*).

If that's really what these devs were thinking, I'll say it's impressive the lengths they go to in order to placate the hammerdin complaints while continuing to spite character classes that were already at a significant disadvantage.

And this is why good software development teams don't take user feedback literally and employ roles that interpret that feedback and turn them into meaningful user stories.

Hey, mate, don't overreact too quickly please. This is now going to PTR, meaning they are testing it. It seems fresh and ladder season then will also serve as a buffer.

How will it be in production ? And then in non ladder? No one knows yet.

I am not fan of those neither. But if they drop as often az Zods, they may not be that much of a common solution. And adding 75 more res is not that easy.

Necrarch wrote: 2 years ago

Hey, mate, don't overreact too quickly please. This is now going to PTR, meaning they are testing it. It seems fresh and ladder season then will also serve as a buffer.

How will it be in production ? And then in non ladder? No one knows yet.

I am not fan of those neither. But if they drop as often az Zods, they may not be that much of a common solution. And adding 75 more res is not that easy.

They'll be the same on non-ladder as they will be on ladder. At least come ladder week 3+ when folks start being comparatively geared.

As for the drop rate..doesn't really matter I dare say. At least not the way they are designed now. There's 0 variable stats (other than the element of course) meaning every single one is perfect. There's 0 benefit to having more than 1 meaning most folks will sell whatever they get in duplicate and/or doesn't match their char's element(s). And they'll be dropping in what is bound to be a rather widely used area (i.e.

Terror zones) moving forward so there should be tons of them all in all.

I'd expect them to drop to "stupid cheap" rather quickly tbh. Albeit probably also "stupid expensive" for the first few cold and light sunders on ladder..

But yeah, I'd at least wait for the actual live patch before making decisions.
After all, the outcry about these seems to be even louder than the outcry from folks playing a hammerdin for the first time on PTR. Wouldn't be surprised if they get changed (or even removed?) before the patch hits. Though that's not to say (even more rushed) alternative solutions would be better.

Those are some strange mind goblins you have sir.

Djinnaz_007 wrote: 2 years ago

Those are some strange mind goblins you have sir.

That is because I write too many stupid posts without value on the internet and I avoid proper discussions too much

The idea though to have a unique (and limited to one Sunder only like Annis and Torches ?) charm impacting enemy res + your res is not bad though. Something like -50 / -50, but following the current rules of res piercing of

Conviction or Lower Resists may not be stupid.
But not the way they are designed now.

Or even more they could actually do variable values, e.g. from -40/-40 to -60/-60 - you could choose how much you hurt yourself as well you hurt the enemies.

To sum up, from something weirdly designed, perhaps we could make something not that stupid.

For the magic damage, could reduce a bit all res. Etc.

But that would ask Blizzard to listen to some ideas out of their range.

Gave this some more thought. I find the choice of a charm also strange. So far charms have always been supportive items, adding onto existing stats. Sunder charms change the build meta however; a charm seems very out of place for this. It should go in the amulet slot imo. This would also guarantee you can at most have only 1, and comes with the opportunity cost of whatever else you'd have put in there.

Necrarch wrote: 2 years ago

The idea though to have a unique (and limited to one Sunder only like Annis and Torches ?) charm impacting enemy res + your res is not bad though. Something like -50 / -50, but following the current rules of res piercing of

Conviction or Lower Resists may not be stupid.
But not the way they are designed now.

Or even more they could actually do variable values, e.g. from -40/-40 to -60/-60 - you could choose how much you hurt yourself as well you hurt the enemies.

To sum up, from something weirdly designed, perhaps we could make something not that stupid.

For the magic damage, could reduce a bit all res. Etc.

But that would ask Blizzard to listen to some ideas out of their range.

Well, per the PTR right now, you can have as many as you want. There's just no point to more than one of the same element since 95 = 95.

Changing it into a flat -x% would really just make that charm a worse version of Infinity. And..well..there's a reason noone cares about Plague..Infinity already has enough it can't break, a -40 charm would do pretty much nothing to change that. Plus it'd then again be a "You're lightning? Have fun!" kind of thing while fire and cold still remain mostly unbreakable. So the "selective buffing via anti-immunities" would be even worse than it is now and would really only hit two of the most meta builds out there.

Also, it'd take it from being an "anti-immunity" thing to a flat x% dmg boost for literally everyone against non-immunes. That's...frankly even worse...and buffing hammerdins hard.

Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago

Necrarch wrote: 2 years ago

The idea though to have a unique (and limited to one Sunder only like Annis and Torches ?) charm impacting enemy res + your res is not bad though. Something like -50 / -50, but following the current rules of res piercing of

Conviction or Lower Resists may not be stupid.
But not the way they are designed now.

Or even more they could actually do variable values, e.g. from -40/-40 to -60/-60 - you could choose how much you hurt yourself as well you hurt the enemies.

To sum up, from something weirdly designed, perhaps we could make something not that stupid.

For the magic damage, could reduce a bit all res. Etc.

But that would ask Blizzard to listen to some ideas out of their range.

Well, per the PTR right now, you can have as many as you want. There's just no point to more than one of the same element since 95 = 95.

Changing it into a flat -x% would really just make that charm a worse version of Infinity. And..well..there's a reason noone cares about Plague..Infinity already has enough it can't break, a -40 charm would do pretty much nothing to change that. Plus it'd then again be a "You're lightning? Have fun!" kind of thing while fire and cold still remain mostly unbreakable. So the "selective buffing via anti-immunities" would be even worse than it is now and would really only hit two of the most meta builds out there.

Also, it'd take it from being an "anti-immunity" thing to a flat x% dmg boost for literally everyone against non-immunes. That's...frankly even worse...and buffing hammerdins hard.

Perhaps the values are not good, but I would tend to believe that something less powerful than Infinity would be better for something that is (only) a charm. On the other side, perhaps could Blizzard choose to fix the fact that they so unbalanced the elements to make all immunities breakable with sufficient effort (Infi + Sunder or

Lower Resist + Sunder ?). But well, that would ask them to fix something in the old stuff, a thing they obviously are not very willing to do.

Have you already given feedback on the ptr? I tested some and gave my negative feedback. I'm doing my part!