There are always people who will complain about every change you can think of.
Let's wait and see what happens during Ladder 2.
At this point, for me it just look like power creep.
I hope Blizzard can up the difficulty to counterweight that;
While at the same time I fear that with too much changes, it will not be a Diablo 2 Remaster anymore...
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Tetra
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Yes, this is exactly how it feels like. They try to turn this game around into something that it really never was. There werent that many complaints when 2.4 was coming out, mostly it were praisesTetra wrote: 2 years ago While at the same time I fear that with too much changes, it will not be a Diablo 2 Remaster anymore...
They actually did. Just the idea wasn't great.louner wrote: 2 years ago I just wonder why is there such a big disconnect between the D2R community and blizzard. Feels like they do the opposite of what the community wants.
Ppl asked to make Terror zones harder - they are easier
People asked to buff weak builds - strong are even stronger now, weak are even more in the dust (and F trapsins)
People asked for build diversity - now few strongest builds are more even more favored (probably the only shift is Hammerdin -> Cold Sorc, which was already popular)
People wanted to nerf hammerdins (I don't want to nerf them, but a lot of people asked for it) - they buffed them by reversing the undead immunes nerf
People asked for QOL changes - we have game mechanics changes nobody asked for (besides MrLlama probably)
People told that only some "OP" builds can farm all TZs so they came with the idea of Sunder Charms to break the immunity of a specific damage type. That was how they thought things could be balanced.
Hammerdin takes the advantage of Sunder Charms the same as other builds. Can't tell he is buffed when you compare to most of other builds (with the exception of trapsin and other summoners)
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As someone who's been saying that since the first patch..I was admittedly positively surprised by how comparatively little nostalgia-breaking impact the changes have had so far.
The immunity-breaking though..is kind of crossing that line already, sadly.
I just hope D4 comes out "soon" and makes them ignore D2:R from then on out so they don't end up breaking it too much. Lets me stick to nostalgic goodness while all the new folk who want things "modern" can move on to D4.
To be fair, I understand that I'm arguing for different things which are contradictory. Predictable is based on speed. Terror Zones will take longer to traverse because of the randomly seeded maps unlike Chaos and the Throne. So the question is less about how much XP do you get per run, but how much XP do you get over time?
The prospect of getting nuked by an Undead Stygian Doll or a Burning Soul adds a small amount of excitement to make the Baal runs less boring. That does hurt efficiency if you die, but it's at least something to look out for rather than portal in and watch the light show. I actually enjoy spamming Slow Missiles on Burning Souls because no other Amazon I've ever played with has used it at a high clvl. That adds something to the gameplay for me and it helps the party.
I think when things are taken in totality, this patch does give some people what they're asking for, but the sum is far less than the individual parts.
When 1.08 dropped for classic alongside LoD, everything got harder in classic because of immunities. A lot of people HATED it. I loved it because:
I feel that Terror Zones only make Durance of Hate more entertaining again in terms of gameplay because of the Undead Stygian Dolls.
There is no new combat challenge here when the game will become far easier.
Yes, my desire for more engaging gameplay is contradictory to my desire for efficient leveling, but that's only because I'm trying to efficiently level just to see where the chips land now that I'm at this point in the ladder. Actually pursuing 99 isn't fun to me regardless of whether it happens with Terror Zones or Baal.
The prospect of getting nuked by an Undead Stygian Doll or a Burning Soul adds a small amount of excitement to make the Baal runs less boring. That does hurt efficiency if you die, but it's at least something to look out for rather than portal in and watch the light show. I actually enjoy spamming Slow Missiles on Burning Souls because no other Amazon I've ever played with has used it at a high clvl. That adds something to the gameplay for me and it helps the party.
I think when things are taken in totality, this patch does give some people what they're asking for, but the sum is far less than the individual parts.
When 1.08 dropped for classic alongside LoD, everything got harder in classic because of immunities. A lot of people HATED it. I loved it because:
- It made party play relevant and fun again
- We ran everywhere in the game, not just designated Terror Zones
- It introduced an actual combat challenge
- People actually wanted to party with Necromancers again instead of accusing them of being lag generators
I feel that Terror Zones only make Durance of Hate more entertaining again in terms of gameplay because of the Undead Stygian Dolls.
There is no new combat challenge here when the game will become far easier.
Yes, my desire for more engaging gameplay is contradictory to my desire for efficient leveling, but that's only because I'm trying to efficiently level just to see where the chips land now that I'm at this point in the ladder. Actually pursuing 99 isn't fun to me regardless of whether it happens with Terror Zones or Baal.
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I've been away from this game for a long time so this is all news to me.
As a Sorc main who had recently rolled my first Infinity (and it's perfect!) shortly before quitting (ironic timing), all this news does is excite me and make me want to jump back in.
It SOUNDS like I can now run pure light and not have to worry about unkillable enemies; but can also run pure cold and pure fire and still not worry about unkillable enemies.
But from what I gather, will the Infinity now be redundant on pure cold builds? Since Sunder can get them to 95, then CM can do the rest? I guess you can save some ranks in CM if using an Infinity, so there's that.
As a Sorc main who had recently rolled my first Infinity (and it's perfect!) shortly before quitting (ironic timing), all this news does is excite me and make me want to jump back in.
It SOUNDS like I can now run pure light and not have to worry about unkillable enemies; but can also run pure cold and pure fire and still not worry about unkillable enemies.
But from what I gather, will the Infinity now be redundant on pure cold builds? Since Sunder can get them to 95, then CM can do the rest? I guess you can save some ranks in CM if using an Infinity, so there's that.
Agreed.Snakecharmed wrote: 2 years ago So the question is less about how much XP do you get per run, but how much XP do you get over time?
I dare assume that a lot of the Terror zones will be completely ignored for the sole purpose of lvling because they are too random or too unpopulated.
At the same time, with ~50 normal mobs being equal to 1 Baal on P1 and those same mobs not suffering from Baal's >P3-bug, along with his waves giving basically no xp after a certain points, a fair few of the zones will certainly outperform him. Cows is of course the obvious prime example.
Based on how it is implemented right now:Snape75 wrote: 2 years ago I've been away from this game for a long time so this is all news to me.
As a Sorc main who had recently rolled my first Infinity (and it's perfect!) shortly before quitting (ironic timing), all this news does is excite me and make me want to jump back in.
It SOUNDS like I can now run pure light and not have to worry about unkillable enemies; but can also run pure cold and pure fire and still not worry about unkillable enemies.
But from what I gather, will the Infinity now be redundant on pure cold builds? Since Sunder can get them to 95, then CM can do the rest? I guess you can save some ranks in CM if using an Infinity, so there's that.
Yes, you can. Pure and done. No need to worry about it anymore (as a sorc at least).
For cold builds, Infinity has always sucked because you can break nearly none of the cold immunes with it. For light/fire though, it isn't redundant as it hits after the sunder so while you don't need it to break immunities anymore, it will now have the same massive dmg boosting effect on prior immunes that it currently has on non-immunes.
The game isn't managed by the Blizzard North devs who are long gone. The hope with D2R was that ATVI would mostly leave things alone and improve issues that have been with this game for 20+ years rather than remix some old pieces and mechanics that don't fit together well and present them as new.
None of this is all that surprising considering how disjointed the new patches and seasons to D3 have been and how bad DI has been in general. I didn't expect thoughtful management of this game to become wishful thinking though, especially not after 2.4.
None of this is all that surprising considering how disjointed the new patches and seasons to D3 have been and how bad DI has been in general. I didn't expect thoughtful management of this game to become wishful thinking though, especially not after 2.4.
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The other issue is that since zones are terrorized per hour, then if undesirable and sparsely populated zones get terrorized, then everyone's going to go back to Baal runs for the next hour, so what changed, really? Cows will be great, while Kurast and Travincal won't be with those coward Zakarumites.Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago Agreed.
I dare assume that a lot of the Terror zones will be completely ignored for the sole purpose of lvling because they are too random or too unpopulated.
At the same time, with ~50 normal mobs being equal to 1 Baal on P1 and those same mobs not suffering from Baal's >P3-bug, along with his waves giving basically no xp after a certain points, a fair few of the zones will certainly outperform him. Cows is of course the obvious prime example.
The spread and transfer of knowledge today is so different than it was 20 years ago. People will find the most efficient way to play in short order and it's not beneficial to the game's community. I could say the same thing about top 2-4 Baal parties. Those issues need to be fixed for good rather than masking the symptoms with other junk and creating new problems.
But this is ATVI after all.
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I just hope (but sincerely doubt) the zones are actually global and not regionally different. That whole idea of "deal with shit zone or deal with massive lag due to crap region with good zone" as your realistic choice is..mweh
So its basically just a sorc buff, since you still need a large amount of -resist being applied to the 95% immune monsters to kill them quickly, except for fire sorc who just has really high dps. Unless you have Infinity of course. But it seems absurd to expect every elemental char to get Infinity.
For example, the PTR sorc with flickering does well on fire immunes because she has a 14kdmg Fireball. Whereas the fire zon sucks because she has 1k-3k dmg shots. The fire zon would do fine you had a spare 2 Ber to use for Infinity.
Fire Claws is still single target hitting.
Holy Fire and shock are weak still unless using Conviction and getting your aura through expensive runewords. Etc.
It doesn't change the fact that the meta casters (plus pure cold and pure fire sorc) are playing a different game than melee chars and phys dmg chars, even the ones with some elemental skills.
For example, the PTR sorc with flickering does well on fire immunes because she has a 14kdmg Fireball. Whereas the fire zon sucks because she has 1k-3k dmg shots. The fire zon would do fine you had a spare 2 Ber to use for Infinity.
Fire Claws is still single target hitting.
Holy Fire and shock are weak still unless using Conviction and getting your aura through expensive runewords. Etc.
It doesn't change the fact that the meta casters (plus pure cold and pure fire sorc) are playing a different game than melee chars and phys dmg chars, even the ones with some elemental skills.
I wonder how this will affect the Diablo economy, particularly items such as Infinity and griffons
Infinity will still be king, now actually reducing the resistances of the broken monsters by the full amount, instead of 1/5th.Maximusbryced wrote: 2 years ago I wonder how this will affect the Diablo economy, particularly items such as Infinity and griffons
Griffon's will still be the top choice for people, looking to maximize their damage output, but Harlequin Crest will become a much better alternative.
On the contrary, I think this proves that Blizz loves sins and barbs, because the game will remain interesting and challenging for those chars whereas it will become totally mindless for sorcs.mockingbirdreal wrote: 2 years agoThe real hated character is Sin.
Not a single one in this new PRT!
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*waves in tesladinJanet the Java wrote: 2 years agoOn the contrary, I think this proves that Blizz loves sins and barbs, because the game will remain interesting and challenging for those chars whereas it will become totally mindless for sorcs.mockingbirdreal wrote: 2 years agoThe real hated character is Sin.
Not a single one in this new PRT!
So you basically say that what I mentioned above haven't been common demands, but only a personal intention? Hmm, I must have been halusinating for a long long time.Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago
Seeing how the same 2 people raise that over and over, do note that "public demands" and "noone" and whatnot are very different things from "what you specifically want/don't want".
Plenty of people asked for an alternate/less repetitive way to get to 99. They got it. Plenty of people wanted SOMETHING else to do other than the same farming zones 24/7. They got it (albeit in a fairly half-assed not too novel way). Plenty of people asked for "others" to be brought more in line with hammerdins. They now got that (albeit in an idiotic way making the remaining imbalances even more obvious and often amplified). The mere fact that you want something else doesn't mean that noone wants/wanted this (or something similar to it).
Sure, some people also asked for loot filters, more char slots, more stash space and all that jazz. But plenty of folks also couldn't care less about that or are actively against some of it. Hell, for those of us playing for nostalgia, "loot juggling" (like it or not) has always been a large part of this game. Stacking + more space in general removes that even more than it already has been. And knowing how to position yourself to avoid label-blockage (again, like it or not) has also always been part of the "pickup-skill" (well, until pickit became obligatory back in the day). Loot filters would kill that entirely. Not saying they're all terrible ideas and they'd certainly bring everything to "modern times" as far as that is concerned but they'd also have a significant impact on the nostalgia aspect of it all.
So yeah, plenty of people for/against/indifferent to literally any change you can come up with. Sometimes you'll get stuff you want, sometimes you get stuff you don't and sometimes you get stuff you literally couldn't care less about one way or the other. Discussions over what is being done never hurt but taking everything to "but..why not the stuff I wanted?!?", assuming that everyone wants only what you want, will leave you rather disappointed more often than not.
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Actually, I very specifically said that other people also did ask for what you're asking.basicnecromancy wrote: 2 years agoSo you basically say that what I mentioned above haven't been common demands, but only a personal intention? Hmm, I must have been halusinating for a long long time.Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago
Seeing how the same 2 people raise that over and over, do note that "public demands" and "noone" and whatnot are very different things from "what you specifically want/don't want".
Plenty of people asked for an alternate/less repetitive way to get to 99. They got it. Plenty of people wanted SOMETHING else to do other than the same farming zones 24/7. They got it (albeit in a fairly half-assed not too novel way). Plenty of people asked for "others" to be brought more in line with hammerdins. They now got that (albeit in an idiotic way making the remaining imbalances even more obvious and often amplified). The mere fact that you want something else doesn't mean that noone wants/wanted this (or something similar to it).
Sure, some people also asked for loot filters, more char slots, more stash space and all that jazz. But plenty of folks also couldn't care less about that or are actively against some of it. Hell, for those of us playing for nostalgia, "loot juggling" (like it or not) has always been a large part of this game. Stacking + more space in general removes that even more than it already has been. And knowing how to position yourself to avoid label-blockage (again, like it or not) has also always been part of the "pickup-skill" (well, until pickit became obligatory back in the day). Loot filters would kill that entirely. Not saying they're all terrible ideas and they'd certainly bring everything to "modern times" as far as that is concerned but they'd also have a significant impact on the nostalgia aspect of it all.
So yeah, plenty of people for/against/indifferent to literally any change you can come up with. Sometimes you'll get stuff you want, sometimes you get stuff you don't and sometimes you get stuff you literally couldn't care less about one way or the other. Discussions over what is being done never hurt but taking everything to "but..why not the stuff I wanted?!?", assuming that everyone wants only what you want, will leave you rather disappointed more often than not.
I merely pointed out that plenty of people also asked for different things and don't care about/don't want the things that you want.
TBH, that comment of mine was primarily triggered by the 9/9 PTR update topic still ringing in the back of my head where the claims kept being "nobody asked for this", "player base UNIVERSALLY wants <what I want!>", "this doesn't benefit [read: isn't wanted by] anyone but the top 0.1%", "<what I want> would be beneficial to all players" and so on and so forth which is frankly just overly biased bullshit. It's that arbitrary throwing around of binary extremes that was getting on my nerves and moving that direction in this topic again then made me finally point it out (after having tried very hard to not already do so in said other topic).
I'm pretty sure I said that and it was a misguided rant on my part done largely in frustration. Obviously I didn't poll the player base. I think what I was getting at is how Blizzard seems to frequently miss the mark when it comes to making major changes to the game's balance by patching the symptoms with more half-baked features rather than actually fix bugs that are the root cause of most of these gameplay issues. I'd like to know how something as lazy as sundering charms became the solution to address hammerdins being too powerful in Terror Zones, and also how they determined that such a drastic change will be ready to go in three weeks from now.
Never mind that:
Never mind that:
- We're already too heavily dependent on charms for a complete build and this will be no different - seriously, does anyone not have an Annihilus and Hellfire Torch?
- We're adding more items in the game for bots to farm, and farm them they will
- Terror Zones, which were supposed to be a shiny new feature for players, will be made comically easy with these charms, which is absurd considering that they increased the alvl and mlvl to make the entire new feature less of a joke in the first place
- They're D3-ifying a game that people bought specifically because they wanted D2, but they don't have the game assets to work with to properly D3-ify the game if that's what they really want to do
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Expansion Ladder Season 1 Level 99 (#115 Amazon, #584 Overall)
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