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12 replies   11303 views
1

Is it still necessary to put 2 Shael into Immortal King hammer?

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2

Description

I am not sure. Has there anything been changed with
Whirlwind
?

Is the Maxroll planner outdated? I have read that
Whirlwind
benefits nowadays from IAS on items other than the weapon. But when I put three IAS jewels into
Helm
and armor, it has no effect on the
Whirlwind
frames, although I think it should have an effect.
Description by ceving
5

Can be used to make Runewords:

7
I am not sure. Has there anything been changed with
Whirlwind
?

Is the Maxroll planner outdated? I have read that
Whirlwind
benefits nowadays from IAS on items other than the weapon. But when I put three IAS jewels into
Helm
and armor, it has no effect on the
Whirlwind
frames, although I think it should have an effect.
7
Blizzard wrote:
Changed the logic for determining how often
Whirlwind
attacks occur.
Whirlwind
now incorporates Increased Attack Speed (IAS) from all equipment
You can get IAS from other equipments, not only from weapon.

Relax and have fun!
7
OP
mockingbirdreal wrote: 2 years ago
Blizzard wrote:
Changed the logic for determining how often
Whirlwind
attacks occur.
Whirlwind
now incorporates Increased Attack Speed (IAS) from all equipment
You can get IAS from other equipments, not only from weapon.
I am not sure how to calculate it. I need 69 for 4 frames.

The base speed of the weapon is 10. The weapon has +40 and the gloves give +25.

Is this 55, which means: 14 ias are missing? So a 15 ias in the armor would be enough with no
Shael
at all in the weopon?
7
I use this site to calculate IAS. https://d2.lc/IAS

So with 40 IAS from Immortal King
Maul
, you need 29 IAS more

Relax and have fun!
7
User avatar

Schnorki 3496Moderator

PC
Base speed doesn't affect your 69 post-hoc. The base speed of your weapon is what sets the 69 to begin with (in conjunction with certain other bits like the skill/attack used).

Knowing that you need 69 and knowing that since the last patch, you can get it via off-weapon IAS, too, it becomes quite simple:
Add up to 69 or higher across all of your equipped gear.

You have 40 on the hammer itself so that's most of it already covered. 29 to go. Let's say 30 for the sake of round numbers (and since IAS typically comes in 5s) and all you need is exactly 2 IAS jewels to hit 70 total and hence the 69 breakpoint. You could of course also get that IAS via other gear such as
Highlord's Wrath
and the gloves you already mentioned.

The maxroll planner seems to indeed not be up to date.

Do note that the last patch didn't just enable off-weapon IAS though, it also changed the way ww speed is calculated to begin with. With outdated planners/IAS calculators, I'm not sure if 69 is even still the breakpoint you need to hit. But perhaps someone else already updated this somewhere/did the applicable new math for it.

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If you want to add me on b.net, please message me here first. Random unexpected invites will typically be declined.
7
User avatar

ShadowHeart 2396Moderator

Europe PC
Warren's attack speed calculator is fully compatible with the updated
Whirlwind
;

https://warren1001.github.io/IAS_Calculator/

I'm in CET (Central European Time), so that's UTC+1 normally and UTC+2 during DST.
My profile says Ladder, but I play both Ladder and Non-Ladder.
7
OP
ShadowHeart wrote: 2 years ago
Warren's attack speed calculator is fully compatible with the updated
Whirlwind
;

https://warren1001.github.io/IAS_Calculator/
Really? 125 IAS for 5 frames instead of 69 for 4 frames?

https://warren1001.github.io/IAS_Calcul ... -0-0-0-0-0

I am wondering, if this is correct. For example a
Colossus Blade
with 5 base speed instead of 10 of the
Ogre Maul
, needs only 75 IAS for 4 frames.

https://warren1001.github.io/IAS_Calcul ... -0-0-0-0-0
7
User avatar

ShadowHeart 2396Moderator

Europe PC
Yeah, that seems to be in line with some preliminary findings/testing some people were doing early on after the patched dropped.

I'm in CET (Central European Time), so that's UTC+1 normally and UTC+2 during DST.
My profile says Ladder, but I play both Ladder and Non-Ladder.
7
User avatar

ShadowHeart 2396Moderator

Europe PC
That post seems to be in line with Warren's IAS calculator that I linked, at least from a quick glance (I haven't deep dived into it).

I can't personally testify to the validity of Warren's IAS calculator or that forum post, as I haven't tested
Whirlwind
myself in 2.4.3, but until someone actually proves them wrong I'm choosing to believe them to be correct. Feel free to do your own testing @ceving.

Also - chill effects now actually slows down
Whirlwind
attack speed as of 2.4.3, previously it only slowed
Whirlwind
movement speed, not attack speed.

I'm in CET (Central European Time), so that's UTC+1 normally and UTC+2 during DST.
My profile says Ladder, but I play both Ladder and Non-Ladder.
7
User avatar

Sean 34

Barbarian Americas PC
Pre-2.4.3
Whirlwind
speed would only take on-weapon IAS into account. The
Ogre Maul
has a base speed of 10, and 40% IAS on
Immortal King's Stone Crusher
will bring that down to -30. Most 2-handed weapons required a base speed of -60 to reach the fastest (4-frame)
Whirlwind
breakpoint, and gemming 2
Shael
runes into the IK hammer will bring its base speed down to -70.

Post-2.4.3
Whirlwind
now incorporates off-weapon IAS, but with diminishing returns like basic attacks. This implies that you could get off-weapon IAS on the rest of your gear to socket something more interesting into
Immortal King's Stone Crusher
like
Ber
,
Ist
,
Um
,
Lo
,
Ohm
, etc. If you're using full Immortal King, then you've already got +25% off-weapon IAS on
Immortal King's Forge
that would have been meaningless before 2.4.3.

The reason why the
Colossus Blade
has better breakpoints than other 2-handed weapons is that barbarian's "2-handed swing" (2-handed sword) attacks are generally faster than his other 2-handed attacks, with the others being "2-handed thrust" (spears) and "staff" (staff includes mauls, axes, and polearms). This is true for all attacks, and not just
Whirlwind
. Pre-2.4.3 2-handed swords always used the faster 1-handed weapon
Whirlwind
breakpoints regardless of how many hands they were equipped with, so it's possible that post-2.4.3
Whirlwind
incorporates a similar design philosophy.

Warren's attack speed calculator (linked in the post by ShadowHeart) does seem to be updated for 2.4.3, so I strongly recommend that it be carefully consulted before gemming anything valuable.

Since you can only get a 5-frame
Whirlwind
at best with the post-2.4.3
Ogre Maul
, and since 6 frames may be a more realistically attainable speed, it seems like 2.4.3 was a nerf for the already underrepresented Immortal King barbarian. Ironically, it was supposed to make 2-handed
Whirlwind
builds more viable.

To answer your question: yes it's still necessary to put 2
Shael
runes into
Immortal King's Stone Crusher
, but only if you don't have enough off-weapon IAS to reach your intended
Whirlwind
breakpoint. However, due to the new way of calculating
Whirlwind
attack speed, you will not be able to reach the same breakpoint you could have pre-2.4.3 with 2
Shael
runes.

Image
7
User avatar

ShadowHeart 2396Moderator

Europe PC
Very informative and nicely laid out, Sean!

I'm in CET (Central European Time), so that's UTC+1 normally and UTC+2 during DST.
My profile says Ladder, but I play both Ladder and Non-Ladder.
9

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