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Can be used to make Runewords:
I think socketed throwing weapons would be a tad awkward. Imagine poor Larzuk being forced to socket 270 Lacerator axes.
That's my reasoning behind it as well.mishabg wrote: 2 years ago Agreed. In fact, I always felt like rares should've been the most powerful items in the game, not runewords... Because rares actually come from farming, compared to runewords that mostly come from trading (for most people anyway), you just find stuff, trade it for the runes you need and craft the runewords.
Yeah some way to cube uniques should be the way to go. I do like your "unique dust" idea too.mishabg wrote: 2 years ago
I think there are 'out of the box' solutions;
Due to the insanely OP runewords, I think we're past trying to make people actually use unique items. If they nerfed runewords people already crafted (or if they buffed uniques, which would render the already crafted runewords obsolete) it would feel really bad for the players...
So I think what they should look for is to make them have a use OTHER than using them.
My #1 idea for that would be to melt them into some kind of currency (unique dust or wtv) that would be use for some purpose. Either a new way to get some stuff already in the game (say, you can use that Unique Dust to craft runes), or an entirely new purpose (an event like Uber Diablo, which you would need lots of Unique Dust to activate).
If there was something like that in game, people would be genuinely excited about finding high level stuff, because (of course) a Grandfather would give you more dust than say a Bloodletter. So finding high level uniques would be a great thing, as you'd know you made a lot of progress toward (whatever dust is used for).
Also worth noting that a system like that would increase the value of many uniques, because lots of people would melt them for dust, instead of giving them away for 1 pgem. So the people who would prefer selling them, could actually get a decent price for them.
This is just 1 idea, I'm sure there would be others, if they're willing to go outside the box.
If there is no 'fun' way to make people equip these items, then make people use them in other ways. Anything to get to the goal of making it exciting when people find high level stuff. Because it's a bit sad when items in the top 10 percentile of quality/level are only worth pgems, or even less (nothing at all).
When you find a Grandfather, it should be exciting, when you find a Gladiator's Bane, it should be exciting. Because more often than not, you won't even find 'THAT GOOD' in a farming session... So if even that is worthless, that's pretty sad.
It would make them into a sort of commodity like we already have with runes and gems. I see it as a break in style however because it takes away from the uniqueness of unique items. Gameplay wise it would be fine, just the purist in me doesn't like it.
Somehow, I feel a lot more sorry for the poor barb who has to successfully juggle 270 Lacerator axes while also throwing them and having some of them randomly magically reappear in his hand alongside the other hundreds of them, all while running away from a pint sized skeletal puppet that wants to blow up right next to his hand so all 270 of them get sploded onto his face.
Okay, sometimes I forget to completely suspend my disbelief for the fantasy genre. In comparison to the rest of the game's oddities, hundreds of socketed projectiles isn't the most unfathomable concept.
I do like the idea of 'disenchanting' (or insert your own term) unique items that are often ignored into some form of a useful resource. Before someone blows my head off, I realize that's similar to a certain D3 mechanic.
I do like the idea of 'disenchanting' (or insert your own term) unique items that are often ignored into some form of a useful resource. Before someone blows my head off, I realize that's similar to a certain D3 mechanic.
Well, D3 doesn't have a monopoly on disassembling stuff. The question is what you do with it.
Crafting already exists, albeit with different sets of mats.
What comes to mind in terms of things a lot of folks would apparently like to see and that don't currently exist for which this (and standards of heroes and whatnot) could be utilized:
- An "imbue recipe", replacing the Charsi alt grind with a materials grind (comes up repeatedly also due to the char count limit).
- A "general socket recipe", replacing Larzuk for the same reason.
- A "reroll recipe", allowing one to completely reroll an item of any type or quality in pursuit of that elusive perfect roll. Even with such a recipe, a lot of high end items have so many permutations that you still won't ever see one. But without it, there's a fair chance that literally noone ever will.
Crafting already exists, albeit with different sets of mats.
What comes to mind in terms of things a lot of folks would apparently like to see and that don't currently exist for which this (and standards of heroes and whatnot) could be utilized:
- An "imbue recipe", replacing the Charsi alt grind with a materials grind (comes up repeatedly also due to the char count limit).
- A "general socket recipe", replacing Larzuk for the same reason.
- A "reroll recipe", allowing one to completely reroll an item of any type or quality in pursuit of that elusive perfect roll. Even with such a recipe, a lot of high end items have so many permutations that you still won't ever see one. But without it, there's a fair chance that literally noone ever will.
This idea is as "inside the box" as "inside the box" gets. Dusting useless items has existed for, like, 20 years.mishabg wrote: 2 years ago
I think there are 'out of the box' solutions;
Due to the insanely OP runewords, I think we're past trying to make people actually use unique items. If they nerfed runewords people already crafted (or if they buffed uniques, which would render the already crafted runewords obsolete) it would feel really bad for the players...
So I think what they should look for is to make them have a use OTHER than using them.
My #1 idea for that would be to melt them into some kind of currency (unique dust or wtv) that would be use for some purpose. Either a new way to get some stuff already in the game (say, you can use that Unique Dust to craft runes), or an entirely new purpose (an event like Uber Diablo, which you would need lots of Unique Dust to activate)
For starters, uniques ARE used. Widely. Harlequin Crest, Death's Fathom, Death's Web, Nightwing's Veil, Griffon's Eye, Titan's Revenge, Headstriker, Ormus' Robes, Ribcracker, Reaper's Toll... And those are just the ones off the top of my head.
I've posted my actual outside-the-box idea elsewhere and will share it here: uniques and sets should not directly compete with runewords; instead, they should complement and even enable entire builds by offering unusual insane skill/damage type/ability bonuses not found elsewhere. Something is too OP and screws up PvP? Who cares? Fuck PvP. Those 100 people that PvP in D2 came up with the no-health potion and no Life Tap rules, they can come up with more.
On the topic of 2.4 itself, it's awesome. I friggin' love doing 50 Arachnid's Lair runs with an Infinity spearzon, then switching to a Berserk barb and doing 50 Stony Tombs. And then if I'm not feeling too sick of the character as a whole, I'll do 50 Chaos runs with my foher. The patch is amazing.
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i think they should just offer to do those services after you completed the quests. first one free as usual. and they could do all the item crafts too.Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago Well, D3 doesn't have a monopoly on disassembling stuff. The question is what you do with it.
Crafting already exists, albeit with different sets of mats.
What comes to mind in terms of things a lot of folks would apparently like to see and that don't currently exist for which this (and standards of heroes and whatnot) could be utilized:
- An "imbue recipe", replacing the Charsi alt grind with a materials grind (comes up repeatedly also due to the char count limit).
- A "general socket recipe", replacing Larzuk for the same reason.
- A "reroll recipe", allowing one to completely reroll an item of any type or quality in pursuit of that elusive perfect roll. Even with such a recipe, a lot of high end items have so many permutations that you still won't ever see one. But without it, there's a fair chance that literally noone ever will.
Outside the box meaning, doing with a sword something other than 'equipping it to swing a sword at your enemy'.iamergo wrote: 2 years ago This idea is as "inside the box" as "inside the box" gets. Dusting useless items has existed for, like, 20 years.
And how many uniques that are NOT used can you name, just off the top of your head?iamergo wrote: 2 years ago For starters, uniques ARE used. Widely. Harlequin Crest, Death's Fathom, Death's Web, Nightwing's Veil, Griffon's Eye, Titan's Revenge, Headstriker, Ormus' Robes, Ribcracker, Reaper's Toll... And those are just the ones off the top of my head.
Let's not do semantics here... When people say "Uniques aren't used" we all know what they mean; That the vast majority of uniques aren't used.
And of the few that are used, some of those are only used in fringe builds, OR they need to high roll or they're near worthless.
Say Titan... Yes everyone uses Titan, but if you find a non-ethereal one (95% of the titans you find) it needs to roll perfect or you won't find more than a mid'ish rune for it (someone has been selling a 198% ED for just Ist Mal - quite affordable - for a month and no taker).
Sure a few uniques are always worth something no matter what they roll, but they're the rare exception. Pick 10 uniques at random at look at their sale pages, and like 9 of them will have 0 offers (or like a few pgems).
You're going way off-topic into the realm of trading. We're not discussing trade prices, we're discussing usefulness. In terms of usefunless, noneth 150%ED Titans are pretty much as good as 200%ED Eth ones, because the physical damage component makes no difference.mishabg wrote: 2 years ago
And how many uniques that are NOT used can you name, just off the top of your head?
Let's not do semantics here... When people say "Uniques aren't used" we all know what they mean; That the vast majority of uniques aren't used.
And of the few that are used, some of those are only used in fringe builds, OR they need to high roll or they're near worthless.
Say Titan... Yes everyone uses Titan, but if you find a non-ethereal one (95% of the titans you find) it needs to roll perfect or you won't find more than a mid'ish rune for it (someone has been selling a 198% ED for just Ist Mal - quite affordable - for a month and no taker).
Normal and exceptional uniques should not be used in lategame to begin with. You don't expect people to use Steel in hell Baal runs, do you? So that's, what, 70% of all uniques that no one should reasonably expect to be used?
The situation is not nearly as drastic as some people make it out to be. People who play 10 hours a week shouldn't expect to sell every unique they find for an Enigma's worth of runes. Or even an Ist. You found a Titan's that no one wants to buy? Boo-hoo! That's 'cause everyone and their grandma has found a shitty noneth one and they're using it. Your 198% noneth Titan's isn't a meaningful enough upgrade OR a trophy to be worth buying. I sell uniques all the time. The actually rare and coveted ones. You should stop caring about Titan's.
Also, "if you find a non-ethereal one (95% of the titans you find)" is nonsense. It's 90%, which is common knowledge.
Even with this, I’d still like to see them add maybe 1-2 more new unique throwing weapons, or perhaps rework some of the more lackluster ones. Gimmershred is one that comes to mind for example.Gunar wrote: 2 years agoJust make throwing weapons socketable, 1 socket in the unis, even 2 for the rares, you know the drill. That should sort things out. Should even correct prices for Zod and respectively Cham a bit.LuckyAce wrote: 2 years ago Perhaps blizzard couple simply introduce more elite unique throwing weapons that better cater to throwing Barbarians? Who knows. It is also not a budget friendly build in my opinion, as it requires pretty specific gear choices to play otherwise it won’t perform very well.
Check out my Barbarian guides here:
—
Theorycrafting with The Barbarian: A Guide for New Players
Guide to Playing a MF Concentrate Barbarian
Guide to Playing an Elemental Throw Barbarian
—
Theorycrafting with The Barbarian: A Guide for New PlayersGuide to Playing a MF Concentrate Barbarian Guide to Playing an Elemental Throw BarbarianFor posterity.
Concur, no easy solution, at least that I can come up with. If I remember right, they tried "condense" thing, kinda, with D3 where you could pull unique essence from items to bank them for crafting. But, it wasn't tied to a specific unique item. It also was ultimately unsatisfying since you could reroll a lot of things, so it didn't matter. And you could find another one in 2 minutes, so it didn't matter. And it was useless in 3 or 4 higher Rift levels, so it didn't matter.Insomnia wrote: 2 years agoThere is no easy solution for that. Changing stats of items or runewords is the least elegant solution, especially if it's done to a bunch of them.mishabg wrote: 2 years ago Well this is actually what I believe is the most disappointing part of the game; Finding a Grandfather should be a thrilling moment, it's so rare and high level and all... But when they're going for pgems, that thrill is short lived. And for Doombringer, people can't even sell them for a Hel rune.
High level stuff like that should be exciting to find.
I can imagine adding cube recipes to improve unique item stats though. Something along the line of condensing for instance Tarnhelm into an "Essence of Tarnhelm" which can be used on another Tarnhelm to potentially roll one with stats beyond what you can find. For instance you could roll a +2 skills, +100 mf Tarnhelm this way.
Each unique would have to have it's own set of max rollable stats to prevent power creep.
I like the idea of not directly competing with the super runewords, but finding where they are weak(ish) and tweaking some of the uniques to shine in that area. For instance, Stormshield is pretty close to better than Spirit Monarch for some builds, why not a little tweak and put it up there for those builds? The issue is we then have the "pre patch" and "post patch" items, which might get a little clunky. That is why I love the tweaking set bonuses. Same items, different effects, so no pre/post patch item issues.
You know, at first I wanted to say this was way too easy, but after pausing and thinking about it, it isn't really a bad idea. An opportunity to convert a SoJ into an Anni IF you are strong enough to take down the DClone. Which, a lot of builds are or someone can just get a friend. SoJs aren't cheap, and in a day or 2 will be a lot more expensive than annis due to supply and demand.Tjalde wrote: 2 years agoI personally really like how it currently works for single player tbh... I think it should just be "spawning dclone costs 1 SoJ" for MP also.Leaker416 wrote: 2 years ago Maybe the solution is to keep working on this particular event? Change it so DClone has a chance to drop an Anni (a decent one, but still a chance) and rework the spawn mechanics? Less SoJs, or not SoJ dependent at all?
Another solution to the flood of Annis is make DClone a Beast that can't be soloed. A bunch of health regen, stronger hits (not 1 shots but a bunch more sting), some additional abilities (lower resistance curse+LBoD=high pucker factor, right?) and suddenly the Annis go back to being common, but earned. It would make DClone into more of the raid event that I think it was envisioned to be.
Did I forget to mention you would get your ordinary Winged Axe with up to 6 sockets?LuckyAce wrote: 2 years agoEven with this, I’d still like to see them add maybe 1-2 more new unique throwing weapons, or perhaps rework some of the more lackluster ones. Gimmershred is one that comes to mind for example.Gunar wrote: 2 years agoJust make throwing weapons socketable, 1 socket in the unis, even 2 for the rares, you know the drill. That should sort things out. Should even correct prices for Zod and respectively Cham a bit.LuckyAce wrote: 2 years ago Perhaps blizzard couple simply introduce more elite unique throwing weapons that better cater to throwing Barbarians? Who knows. It is also not a budget friendly build in my opinion, as it requires pretty specific gear choices to play otherwise it won’t perform very well.
Thats right, we are talking about an Axe, so without further ado, you could throw your beloved Grief. Stack some auras and make a crazy fanatic Werebear throwing barb, with Beast and say Last Wish, even a mere 3 socket Crescent Moon would mean serious buisiness per it's Static Field - remember, it's piercing and you would probably add some knockback. A budget friendly Oath in a non depleting Eth. Winged Axe for starters - hell, even I would get interested in a throwing barb.
I see room for some bold changes here - the very idea of throwing a melee weapon isn't quite transported via the current fainthearted implementation of throwing weapons in the game.
Oh I totally agree, but I feel throwing runewords like Grief, Beast or Lash Wish might be just a *tad* OP lmao. As nice as it sounds anyway. One can only Dream I suppose.Gunar wrote: 2 years agoDid I forget to mention you would get your ordinary Winged Axe with up to 6 sockets?LuckyAce wrote: 2 years agoEven with this, I’d still like to see them add maybe 1-2 more new unique throwing weapons, or perhaps rework some of the more lackluster ones. Gimmershred is one that comes to mind for example.
Thats right, we are talking about an Axe, so without further ado, you could throw your beloved Grief. Stack some auras and make a crazy fanatic Werebear throwing barb, with Beast and say Last Wish, even a mere 3 socket Crescent Moon would mean serious buisiness per it's Static Field - remember, it's piercing and you would probably add some knockback. A budget friendly Oath in a non depleting Eth. Winged Axe for starters - hell, even I would get interested in a throwing barb.
I see room for some bold changes here - the very idea of throwing a melee weapon isn't quite transported via the current fainthearted implementation of throwing weapons in the game.
Check out my Barbarian guides here:
—
Theorycrafting with The Barbarian: A Guide for New Players
Guide to Playing a MF Concentrate Barbarian
Guide to Playing an Elemental Throw Barbarian
—
Theorycrafting with The Barbarian: A Guide for New PlayersGuide to Playing a MF Concentrate Barbarian Guide to Playing an Elemental Throw Barbarian
UPDATE: So, Chuckie is a bit of a Beast. Took him into Hell, and at level 71, with dual Gimmershreds, he was was, well, shredding the PI ghosts in The Forgotten Tower better than my level 85 dual Grief Frenzy barb. And that was before getting Chuckie into his Fortitude and the Soul Drainers I have set aside for him. He had no problem with a Physical and Fire Immune Stone skinned Goatman on the 5th floor. Pit wasn't an issue either. And disclaimer, I didn't do any planning on the build, kinda shot from the hip, so plenty of optimization left on the table I am sure.
Looks like damage isn't going to be an issue in Hell. Moreover, with the right weapons, there is a barb option that isn't stuck when encountering PIs. Downside is that while I am killing in 1 or 2 hits, it is still deliberate efforts for each enemy, no AoE or "clear the room with one click" option. But as stated before, a lot of barb builds are like that. Overall I find it to be a fun build and glad to see a viable throwing barb in the mix. Certainly not going to rival Hammerdin or Lightning Sorc, but viable all the same.
Looks like damage isn't going to be an issue in Hell. Moreover, with the right weapons, there is a barb option that isn't stuck when encountering PIs. Downside is that while I am killing in 1 or 2 hits, it is still deliberate efforts for each enemy, no AoE or "clear the room with one click" option. But as stated before, a lot of barb builds are like that. Overall I find it to be a fun build and glad to see a viable throwing barb in the mix. Certainly not going to rival Hammerdin or Lightning Sorc, but viable all the same.
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