Rune prices are in shambles

After writing this I feel like I should preface this with 'it's kinda a rant'

When I first started trading on this site I immediately noticed that the amount of lowballing and bad Faith trades was staggering.

I've seen topics on this forum saying they sold an item to someone then saw the same item posted on d2jsp..

I just checked the price for

Ber and it seems to have calmed down now when I check it for the past 3 days, but I have seen people saying they want

Jah +

Ohm + more for 1

Ber and I'm sat here thinking get me on what they have been smoking...

The way I look at it (and how I looked at it 20 years ago and believe other people did and still do) - if you play single player you need 2

Pul for 1

Um, on multi player maybe you could do a

Lem +

Pul for

Um or 2

Lem +

Pul for

Um but never would you give more than 2

Pul for 1

Um because you craft it cheaper (gems are moot).

When you get past

Vex+ (depends on the type of monster/zone/etc. this is rough example) the drop rates are so low for those higher runes compared to the lower runes you can't price it the same way as if you're cubing it up - so the rarity of the rune has to also be considered. The difference between

Ber/

Jah from a normal monster in Hell

Chaos Sanctuary is basically either 1/900,000 (

Jah) or 1/1,000,000 (

Ber), from a boss like Diablo it's 1/50,000 (

Jah) or 1/55,000 (

Ber) -

Cham and

Zod are even rarer in terms of drop rate but are not used in meta runewords so are not regarded as highly.

The demand for a

Ber does not mean you overpay for it because this in turn creates another problem..

Where are all of these

Jah going? How many Last Wish will we see on d2jsp because they all come to this website and con people who appreciate but do not understand the value of what they have...

This is a problem because certain people abuse and manipulate the circumstances of the market (nobody has a clue what their stuff is worth) then take it to d2jsp and convert it into real money (why pay d2jsp their rate for forum gold when another user gives you a better rate). If you have perfect items, some item-selling websites may even buy them off you so they can resell it..

At the end of the day the earnest is on the individual - I understand that, but I do not believe this website was established to profit off of lack of knowledge (I've been told there's lots of threads about price checking, etc.) - but that doesn't help the casual player who doesn't have the time or motivation to spend more time learning about a game than playing it o.O

It's not reasonable and if they don't learn they are told it's their own fault they got conned and it pushes people away out of the community, then they go and play something else and there are less people farming Diablo, so less trades, less games, etc. ...

I would suggest maybe when a new account is made they are sent a message from the system or an admin giving them a few URLs to the pages such as price-check/trade-value-guide-runes-tor ... 20668.html from BilllyMaysed which for someone who has no clue what they are doing - this is invaluable! I have seen other pricing guides around this is just the first one I found.

Maybe a compendium of character builds would eventually crop up on the site etc. but these resources which are needed most by newer players I don't think are getting to them.

I don't know if it's the UI of the website, if it's the delivery of the message, I don't know. But I do know there are lots of users on this website being unfairly probed for cheaper items than market value so that manipulative people (you are manipulating a market and the sellers within it because YOU KNOW that you are getting the better deal, and you do this consistently) can potentially make real world money.

Would you say the same for Stone of Jordan when it was worth

Ohm?
When it was worth

Ohm+

Vex two weeks ago?
When it was worth

Lo a week ago?
When it's worth

Sur/

Lo+

Ist now?

Supply and demand, this indeed seems like a rant to me.

If you have 30

Ber for sale and 140 people having a WTB on it, at some point you can ask for whatever and someone WILL come and offer it.

Jah+4/5

Ist is currently the norm. The

Jah+

Ohm is an outlier now, but in a week or two? Very well might be the new norm.

Regarding

Jah - 45 people seling, 35 people buying.

Howgh.

Thanks for sharing!

In regards to Queegon I have to say,

There are many assumptions humans make all the time about everything, most of which you are not aware of (I won't break down psychology here).

One of my assumptions that I am always working around is 'The Golden Rule' - treat others how you expect to be treated.

I have many disagreements and arguments to make over how people conduct themselves in a free market and how ethically controversial it can become. Both in real world economies and in-game ones,

I do not wish to have that conversation here, with you, as I really doubt you have the knowledge to engage with this discussion in any meaningful way when your main argument is "supply and demand" yes I understand that is what it is - I'm saying people who are morally flexible take advantage of that demand when they could act in a more fair and proportionate way instead of fueling their own greed and endless lust for Wealth.

If you think there's no problem with that cool, I do think there's a problem with it.

Anthonyc952421 wrote: 3 years ago

I have seen people saying they want

Jah +

Ohm + more for 1

Ber and I'm sat here thinking get me on what they have been smoking...

You have to ignore those. They either overvalue the stuff they own or have no idea of current values. My favorite is people not knowing

Cham is bad or the classic battle net trade games where they need LOW /runeword/ and offer something not even close. Like Need low hoto offer

Um +

Pul + 2

Ko.

The value of

Jah has went down compared to

Ber because most of the people who wanted Enigma have made theirs. Now all these extra

Jah are trade fodder kind of like

Ist and

Vex.

Boohoo

I even think the value of

Jah hasn't declined, but rather the value of

Ber has skyrocketed in comparison, because of the increased demand for Infinity.

edit: nvm, Roxxia, didn't read properly, that you also wrote "compared to

Ber".

Anthonyc952421 wrote: 3 years ago

In regards to Queegon I have to say,

There are many assumptions humans make all the time about everything, most of which you are not aware of (I won't break down psychology here).

One of my assumptions that I am always working around is 'The Golden Rule' - treat others how you expect to be treated.

I have many disagreements and arguments to make over how people conduct themselves in a free market and how ethically controversial it can become. Both in real world economies and in-game ones,

I do not wish to have that conversation here, with you, as I really doubt you have the knowledge to engage with this discussion in any meaningful way when your main argument is "supply and demand" yes I understand that is what it is - I'm saying people who are morally flexible take advantage of that demand when they could act in a more fair and proportionate way instead of fueling their own greed and endless lust for Wealth.

If you think there's no problem with that cool, I do think there's a problem with it.

Nice elitist way of saying... nothing? And undermining someone else for their assumed knowledge or lack of it?
Good lord, must have PhD in Reddit.

People taking advatange of and manipulating free market to gain Wealth - wow, never heard of such atrocity. How dare they.. they... greedy... bunch of...

This topic doesn't even generate warm steam like oral convesration would and belong into depths of Reddit so it should just be locked.

Anthonyc952421 wrote: 3 years ago

In regards to Queegon I have to say,

There are many assumptions humans make all the time about everything, most of which you are not aware of (I won't break down psychology here).

One of my assumptions that I am always working around is 'The Golden Rule' - treat others how you expect to be treated.

I have many disagreements and arguments to make over how people conduct themselves in a free market and how ethically controversial it can become. Both in real world economies and in-game ones,

I do not wish to have that conversation here, with you, as I really doubt you have the knowledge to engage with this discussion in any meaningful way when your main argument is "supply and demand" yes I understand that is what it is - I'm saying people who are morally flexible take advantage of that demand when they could act in a more fair and proportionate way instead of fueling their own greed and endless lust for Wealth.

If you think there's no problem with that cool, I do think there's a problem with it.

For us stupid, it means: "I know better then you, pleb".

It is funny, how you mention the Golden Rule and then behave like a jerk. We should be jerks to you?

If you want to con people out of virtual items go ahead nobody is stopping you - I don't think that's fair to the people on the other end of it

If you think the rune prices and trading is bad now, wait til Ladder starts for D2R, then non-ladder economy will basically collapse. On Europe region, trading is already sparse from my observation.

Like I said, I don't want to have this conversation, on a D2 trade website, with people that are not considering what I've said in good Faith, and assuming supply and demand is what makes people responsible for scamming.

Anthonyc952421 wrote: 3 years ago

If you want to con people out of virtual items go ahead nobody is stopping you - I don't think that's fair to the people on the other end of it

Do you live in a different world than rest of us?

I don't trade in Diablo II but please, explain it to me from my point of view if I am on the "other end" of said "con".

I am casually playing through Hell like I used to 16 years ago. On my way to Diablo, which is very first time reaching him on this character, I find a

Ber rune. Hazy memories from 2005 tell me this

Ber rune should be quite valuable but I don't have any use for it as of now. I would need some other item though which would make playing much easier. My hammerdin could use an upgrade such as

Shako, Hoto or Mara's, for example. So, I trade my

Ber for a 31@ Hoto and 98 defense

Shako which already has a

Topaz socketed - clearly a win from my side. Oh boy will this make my character stronger or not. I consider myself lucky to have been able to acquire both of these items from a single

Ber rune I so casually got.

How was I conned? Is it Black or is it White this time?

Flipping isn't some "con", and there is nothing shady about it. If you are willing to pay something to get something else and are happy to do it then it is fair.
In Legacy days, it was more than usual for me to pay more than normally considered price of items because I never had patience to wait for this one right person. Often I would just pay what was asked and never had a problem with it. Never did I accuse other end for conning me even if I found out I paid double the real price because I got what I needed and paid what I was willing to.

Anthonyc952421 wrote: 3 years ago

Like I said, I don't want to have this conversation, on a D2 trade website, with people that are not considering what I've said in good Faith, and assuming supply and demand is what makes people responsible for scamming.

Weird that you started this topic on a trading website.

Don't they sell diaries nowadays?

Folks, there is no need for animosity in this thread or on this website, let's have a conversation, not a twitter joust.

With regards to the actual conversation, I think we've discussed this many times in this forum and always come to the same conclusion: for people who are looking for knowledge to educate themselves on the average value of their items and the current market prices and trends, this website has a lot to offer.
If people sign up and go straight away to trading something for less that it usually goes for, it's not something anyone can or should police. It's up to them to decide if they want to gather knowledge or trade straight away, and it's also up to them to decide if that sub-par trade they just made is satisfactory or not. Not everyone looks to squeeze every possible drop of value from every single drop, some are just content with a somewhat fair trade that gets them what they need in that moment.

I don't mean to say there isn't anyone trading here that's preying on newcomers to make bank in D2 or real life, but no matter what you do if trading happens here, they will be here as well. There are many ways for someone who feels they're getting scammed or lowballed to get a different opinion: the price check forum, the discord, even the general forum usually likes these discussions about current price fluctuations.

I like the idea of providing curated content to newcomers however, whether it would be a PM after sign up or just a info box on your first login, and would love to see that suggestion in the feedback/ section!

I just don't understand posts like this. I'm actually starting to think this is a sponsored campaign of misinformation.

This site has the most up to date, transparent, and accessible price data on the web. Recent sales over 3 days, historical sales data back to the start of the game, a number of easily found and well written forum threads, price guide listings, tables, even links to other websites with similar information. Assessing the price of an item in Diablo 2 has never been easier.

And yet here I am responding to 'I'm not happy with trading for reason X, it's the website fault' thread no. 6.

So let me make myself clear.

I will not be sending new members spammy PMs on registration with these links - they are easy to find. I refuse to accept responsibility for traders accepting lowball offers point because they were too lazy to research stuff (which is so easy to do). I will not spoon feed people information that is literally right in front of them.

As for the rest of this vitriolic post what can I say - you sound very bitter with trading in general and perhaps you should take a break from the game. Yes, people will try to get the most that they can, that's human nature. Up to you to use the data available to make sure you don't get ripped off. Simple. This site is here to provide people with the tools to trade fairly if they want to.

Edit: I also just want to say that it seems like a lot of your big issues are around real money getting involved in the process at some point. Remember that diablo2.io is one of the only places that actually disallows real money trading and actively polices it. If you're mad about people using real money then why are you complaining about d2io?

Another thing I have noticed in these posts. They are always third party complaints. "I think someone else is getting ripped off", never "I got ripped off". I get that you want to stand up for people who are getting hurt. But I would expect many complaints of getting ripped off before I see 3rd party complaints, if there was a major problem. If you see a trade you think is a rip off you can always individually message the person you think is getting ripped off (or make a better bid if you can) but they are ultimately responsible for themselves. What you think may be a scam could be a good deal to the person involved either because they are getting exactly what they wanted or just wanted to liquidate the value as fast as possible.

I think another problem is that with all the information we suddenly have available. we see the trades that probably were happening before, but just not very common, and are comparing it to the relative lack of information we had before.

Teebling wrote: 3 years ago

This site has the most up to date, transparent, and accessible price data on the web. Recent sales over 3 days, historical sales data back to the start of the game, a number of easily found and well written forum threads, price guide listings, tables, even links to other websites with similar information. Assessing the price of an item in Diablo 2 has never been easier.

For real, half of this site is built around trading section and it is probably one, if not the best resource to

Find Item values.

Don't understand what wrong do people find in it and what are they smoking while at it.

Yet another thread about someone else getting "conned or scammed". Dont sell if you don't understand current values, or cant be bothered to make a couple clicks to see recent sale prices

mgorman42 wrote: 3 years ago

Another thing I have noticed in these posts. They are always third party complaints. "I think someone else is getting ripped off", never "I got ripped off". I get that you want to stand up for people who are getting hurt. But I would expect many complaints of getting ripped off before I see 3rd party complaints, if there was a major problem. If you see a trade you think is a rip off you can always individually message the person you think is getting ripped off (or make a better bid if you can) but they are ultimately responsible for themselves. What you think may be a scam could be a good deal to the person involved either because they are getting exactly what they wanted or just wanted to liquidate the value as fast as possible.

I think another problem is that with all the information we suddenly have available. we see the trades that probably were happening before, but just not very common, and are comparing it to the relative lack of information we had before.

Well said. Personally, I think that between two parties and whatever they trade for and with, as long as both parties are satisfied with their trade, it's totally fine. Who is it and their business to barge in and tell one or the other party, "Hey, you got ripped off, you should have gotten X or Y or Z." The prices for everything is NOT set in Stone. Even HR prices fluctuate. Say someone is selling a

Ber, and they finally sell it for 1 less

Ist than the market "normal" price. Is it justified to rag on that person for not selling it at the "set" price, even if that could potentially mean not selling it or dealing with the hassle of going thru more time, energy, and effort to sell it instead of selling it sooner and quicker by taking a lesser amount? Mind you, this perspective is NOT counting blatant ripoff instances where people that have an idea of what the ballpark prices are that might prey on the ignorant or uninformed, such as if someone convinces a new player that their

Um rune they found in hellforge quest is worth letting go of for 5 pgems.

This site is, hands down, the best resource for pricing Diablo 2 items on the internet, at least that I have found so far. There is price history information, active trade info, recent sales, and information galore, all accessible with a few keystrokes and clicks. There are lots of ways to find out what something is worth to the right buyer.

However, it's a mistake to think that finding out the worth of an item is easy for a new player. We're used to the site - we know how to use it, and know its ins and outs. It seems easy to us. We are, relative to the average person, experts at using this site, and therefore we're not the best judges of how easy something might be for other people who aren't experts.

The hypothetical user doesn't know to do this stuff. While anecdotes aren't evidence, consider how your mother or jocky brother or non-trade-game friend would use this site; if they got a

Ber, and are trying to get

Tal Rasha's amulet, what would they do? Maybe they will look up the value of a

Ber or of

Tal Rasha's Adjudication; maybe they'll just try to make a trade offering a

Ber for

Tal Rasha's amulet; maybe they'll make a WTB trade asking for the amulet with no offer listed, and a WTS trade for the

Ber with no asking price listed. Maybe they'll do sufficient research; maybe they won't. There's a decent chance that they will just try to get what they're looking for using what they have, without finding out if that's even a fair deal.

In an ideal world, a user would:

1. Use the Database to search for
   Ber
2. Check the 3-day sale history of
   Ber
3. Check the historical sale prices of
   Ber
4. Check the asking prices of a
   Ber in active trades
5. Use the database to search for
   Tal Rasha's, then select the amulet off of the autocomplete dropdown
6. Check the 3-day sale history of
   Tal Rasha's Adjudication
7. Check the historical sale prices of
   Tal Rasha's Adjudication
8. Check the asking prices of a
   Tal Rasha's Adjudication in active trades
9. Compile and compare the price information of the two items above
10. Create a trade to sell the
    Ber for a reasonable price
11. Wait for a bidder to give an acceptable price for the
    Ber
12. Notify the bidder that you've accepted their bid
13. Wait for the buyer to be available to do that trade
14. Actually do the trade
15. Look for someone selling
    Tal Rasha's Adjudication,
16. Bid on
    Tal Rasha's Adjudication
17. Wait to learn if their bid won the
    Tal Rasha's Adjudication
18. Wait for the seller to be online at the same time as the buyer to do the trade
19. Actually do the trade

That's a lot of steps. Can it be easier? There are definitely ways to trim that down: perhaps, when creating a WTS trade for a known item, the site could trawl the trade data and suggest a reasonable range of prices? Perhaps, when mentioning an item by name, those same prices could be appended to the end of it, similarly to how the icon is prepended to the front? Maybe a link to the Diablo 2 Guides and Resource Links thread could be added to the sidebar?

There are always ways to make it easier, but not all of them are practical. The first two examples I just gave above are likely impractical: they would require creating a script that can intelligently verify trade prices from the last three days, know the effective values, and list them. Even if those run once a day and cache the results, that's not a small effort. The latter item could be easy, or it could be hard: I don't have access to the site's codebase, so I don't know. The level of effort for these fixes is something we have to consider: practicality matters.

Once we've accepted the practicality issue, the question changes from 'can it be easier?' to 'is it worth our lone dev's limited free time to make it easier?' And that is a question only @Teebling can answer, and that answer may very well be 'no'. Given everything Teebling has done already to create this site, things that posts like this effectively take for granted, I don't think it's fair for any of us to demand more. If Teebling had a full-time team of five devs working on this, I'd have a long list of suggestions that I'd offer up. But it's just Teebling, in their free time, doing this for the fun of it, paying out of pocket for server costs. It's a labor of love that we shouldn't take for granted.

Edit: Removing some of the extra Mentions