How do different sources of minus enemy defense interact?

Hi ♥
I'm using the act1 cold merc for uber support on my warlock (Mist, Kira's Guardian, Duress). Her level 32 Inner Sight (-1815 defense) along with level 39 Death Mark (-1380 defense) and level 21 Sigil Lethargy (-53% defense) means my Bind Demon has no issue hitting any of them. Uber Baal should be reduced to 0 defense from Inner Sight and Death Mark alone but i'm wondering if anyone knows specifically how these all work together?

Does -% apply before flat reduction, or after? I assume it's after, but if it's before it means next respec i'm definitely going with 1 pt into Death Mark and finally ditching goatmen all together. Or potentially switching to act 2 might merc with Pride (but he's quite hard to keep alive) since i won't need Inner Sight

How does -% target defense from weapons fit into all of this? Does Sigil Lethargy stack with it or is it more like how Critical Strike / deadly strike work?

Thanks^^

Act2 merc is suicidal. You already have demon to tank.
BTW Hex:Bane reduces defense too
Hex:Syphon reduces damage done by monster/boss / Herald
You can apply with Blade Warp or ES.
I don't think you can lower boss defense below 50% with hexes and sygils. But I have no proofs, just thoughts.

dionisy_cn wrote: 1 month ago

BTW Hex:Bane reduces defense too
Hex:Syphon reduces damage done by monster/boss / Herald
You can apply with Blade Warp or ES.

Does hex work on your summons? I thought it only applied to you

dionisy_cn wrote: 1 month ago

I don't think you can lower boss defense below 50% with hexes and sygils. But I have no proofs, just thoughts.

I mean more regarding all sources of % vs flat defense reduction. If Sigil Lethargy applies after Death Mark's flat reduction, Uber Baal would still have 900 defense vs 100 if it applies before

A2 is suicidal but both might + Concentration would be a nice damage boost to Bind Demon. I think with the right gear he'd be ok, Kira's Guardian + Treachery/Chains of Honor. In this case i'd respec to use Miasma Bolt for PMH since this setup loses open wounds from Duress

kerph wrote: 1 month ago

Does hex work on your summons? I thought it only applied to you

first you Hex YOUR weapon and it changes color.
Then you hit a mob with that weapon by any mean, ranged or melee, and monster become Hexed. And (let's take Syphon) this Hexed monster start dealing less damage to everything while Hexed. this includes damage to you, your summons or anyone in your party. In my case fire Warlock has 1 point in Syphon, 1 point in ES and can apply Hex to Mobs with a Hexed weapon. I have no Enigma on ladder yet and need Blade Warp . This hex:Syphon makes notty Heralds less dangerous.

kerph wrote: 1 month ago

Does -% apply before flat reduction, or after?

As far as I know it is calculated as follows: Total Defense = Summed Flat Defense * (100% + Summed xx% Defense) and defense cannot be reduced below zero.

So for example level 32 Inner Sight (-1815 defense) and level 39 Death Mark(-1380 defense) and level 21 Sigil Lethargy (-53% defense) against Uber Baal (defense = 3150 and level 37 Chilling Armor +384% defense).

Total defense = (3150-1815-1380) * (100% + 384% - 53%) = 0 * 331% = 0

kerph wrote: 1 month ago

How does -% target defense from weapons fit into all of this?

From https://maxroll.gg/d2/resources/attack- ... nse-header:
Causes attacks to calculate chance to hit as if the target had less Defense according to a % reduction.
When available on a weapon, only effective for attacks made with that weapon.
The full -% applies to normal and minions monsters.

The -% is halved against the following:
Player Characters
Mercenaries
Super Unique Monsters
Act Bosses

Defense cannot be reduced below 0%.

atari wrote: 1 month ago

kerph wrote: 1 month ago

How does -% target defense from weapons fit into all of this?

From https://maxroll.gg/d2/resources/attack- ... hit-header:
On a successful weapon strike that deals damage, reduces the target's Defense value by an amount stated on the item.
When available on a weapon, only applied by attacks made with that weapon.
Reduces the base Defense of the monster before any +xx% Defense apply, like from the Stone Skin monster modifier.

I think you copied the description of “Monster Defense per hit” where each successful hit applies a permanent flat defense reduction (no duration, lasts until dead or until the monster is “unloaded” - as in no players nearby for X amount of time).

This is the description of “-% Target Defense” from the same page:

Causes attacks to calculate chance to hit as if the target had less Defense according to a % reduction.

• When available on a weapon, only effective for attacks made with that weapon.
• The full -% applies to normal and minions monsters.
  • The -% is halved against the following:
    • Player Characters
    • Mercenaries
    • Super Unique Monsters
    • Act Bosses
• Defense cannot be reduced below 0%.

@ShadowHeart Thanks. I've corrected my post.

atari wrote: 1 month ago

As far as I know it is calculated as follows: Total Defense = Summed Flat Defense * (100% + Summed xx% Defense) and defense cannot be reduced below zero.

So for example level 32 Inner Sight (-1815 defense) and level 39 Death Mark(-1380 defense) and level 21 Sigil Lethargy (-53% defense) against Uber Baal (defense = 3150 and Chilling Armor +225% defense).

Total defense = (3150-1815-1380) * (100% + 225% - 53%) = 0 * 272% = 0

You know, i totally forgot about his chilling armour

Do you know a specific source for that? It's surprising to read all % sources being summed together rather than % reduction applying after bonuses. I guess % reduction is pretty worthless then for Uber Baal/ Uber Izual

https://maxroll.gg/d2/resources/hit-cha ... nse-header notes the formula for the player. I just assumed it's the same for monsters but I wasn't able to find a reliable source for it.
Fortunately there aren't many sources of +%def for monsters. Uniques can spawn with stone skin, Uber Izual and Uber Baal have Chilling Armor and Madawc has Shout. AFAIK that's it.