Hustle is a Goofy Name

Knappogue wrote: 10 months ago

Aelanwyr wrote: 10 months ago

Knappogue wrote: 10 months ago

Based on the fire buffs associated with Temper, I'd say it's named after the verb of Temper and not the noun usage

A metal object's Temper is a reference to the properties it obtained as a consequence of the forging process, including its resilience to heat. I'd say it still fits the mold.

Along that same thought process we can use Hustle as a noun: the act of hustling.

The act of hustling is called hustling. Hustle as it is used as a pure standalaone noun is essentially synonymous wth "activity" or "agitation", which would also be goofy names for a runeword.

An object's Temper is the proper, definitionally unique given name for a specific property of that object, and it has a sufficiently archaic origin to be a good tonal match with the rest of the runeword canon.

Aelanwyr wrote: 10 months ago

The act of hustling is called hustling. An object's Temper is the proper, definitionally unique given name for a specific property of that object.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/di ... ish/hustle
Specifically #8-10.

Knappogue wrote: 10 months ago

Aelanwyr wrote: 10 months ago

The act of hustling is called hustling. An object's Temper is the proper, definitionally unique given name for a specific property of that object.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/di ... ish/hustle
Specifically #8-10.

So, here's the thing: definition 8 would be better expressed (in my opinion) as, say, "energy". Also, that definition is not particularly evocative of speed. Only the verb definitions of the word have a strong connotation of speed, rather than mere busyness.

Definitions 9 and 10 are informal uses of U.S. origin - a horrible tonal match with the rest of the game.

FULCRUM75 wrote: 10 months ago

halflife wrote: 10 months ago

"Haste" would have been a more Diablo-esque sounding word. Hustle sounds too modern and slangish. I blame too much rap & hip hop culture in society =P

If you consider the first known use of Hustle in 1684 in English to be modern, suuure?
Taken from the Dutch "hutselen", meaning "to shake", it had "changed to its modern meaning of hurry or move quickly by 1812".

Aelanwyr wrote: 10 months ago

FULCRUM75 wrote: 10 months ago

Doesn't anyone know the most common meaning of the word?

-"Come on people, Hustle!" equates to -"Hurry up people, get moving".

It can also refer to urgent/urgency, expedite, hasten, make haste, bump/buffet/jog, force/press/rush and crowding...

But that use of "Hustle" is an imperative. Every other runeword is a noun or noun phrase.

Uh, Hustle is also a noun in that use...

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hustle
>>>Hustle
2 of 2
noun
1
a
: energetic activity<<<

Indeed.

I'm sure you've heard of "Hustle Culture," and "Hustling" in general. Just because a term or phrase existed way back in Ye Olde times doesn't necessarily mean the same now (or it can, but) it can have added meanings, esp. considering cultures, subcultures, different time periods in history, evolution of language and slang, etc.

And ofc, individually YMMV in terms of interpretation when it comes to subjectivity.

https://www.reddit.com/r/memes/comments ... ookin_sus/

Aelanwyr wrote: 10 months ago

Knappogue wrote: 10 months ago

Aelanwyr wrote: 10 months ago

The act of hustling is called hustling. An object's Temper is the proper, definitionally unique given name for a specific property of that object.

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/di ... ish/hustle
Specifically #8-10.

So, here's the thing: definition 8 would be better expressed (in my opinion) as, say, "energy". Definitions 9 and 10 are informal uses of U.S. origin - a horrible tonal match with the game.

Lol, disagreeing with a dictionary (factual evidence), and pushing a personal opinion. 5 points to Gryffindor!

Knappogue wrote: 10 months ago

Aelanwyr wrote: 10 months ago

Knappogue wrote: 10 months ago

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/di ... ish/hustle
Specifically #8-10.

So, here's the thing: definition 8 would be better expressed (in my opinion) as, say, "energy". Definitions 9 and 10 are informal uses of U.S. origin - a horrible tonal match with the game.

Lol, disagreeing with a dictionary (factual evidence), and pushing a personal opinion. 5 points to Gryffindor!

Hustle can be used as a noun, sure, but the noun versions of the word do not appeal to the connotative meaning of "speediness" that the runeword is clearly trying to appeal to.

Knappogue wrote: 10 months ago

Aelanwyr wrote: 10 months ago

Knappogue wrote: 10 months ago

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/di ... ish/hustle
Specifically #8-10.

So, here's the thing: definition 8 would be better expressed (in my opinion) as, say, "energy". Definitions 9 and 10 are informal uses of U.S. origin - a horrible tonal match with the game.

Lol, disagreeing with a dictionary (factual evidence), and pushing a personal opinion. 5 points to Gryffindor!

Also, fwiw, a dictionary is a secondary source, a synthesis of (i.e. a commentary upon) primary sources. I'd argue definition 8 is nonstandard parlance outside of the idiomatic use case, its failure to refer back to the property of speed notwithstanding.

I wish I could go back in time and told my past self to never engage in this conversation.

Response to OP.

I think Hustle makes sense. To move fast… and/or to act quick hence the

Burst of Speed and fanat aura…

Like u mentioned “haste” etc also make sense but i guess “Hustle” rw has a strange ring to it, could be good or bad. There is no wrong answer.

Incidentally, it's nice to see some spirited debate on the topic. I'm guessing we've matched the cognitive labor put into the name by D2R's dev team several times over in this thread alone.

d2rppa69 wrote: 10 months ago

Response to OP.

I think Hustle makes sense. To move fast… and/or to act quick hence the

Burst of Speed and fanat aura…

Like u mentioned “haste” etc also make sense but i guess “Hustle” rw has a strange ring to it, could be good or bad. There is no wrong answer.

But "to move fast" takes the structure of the definition of a verb, which would make Hustle the only runeword to appeal primarily to a verb definition of the runeword's name.

Knappogue wrote: 10 months ago

I wish I could go back in time and told my past self to never engage in this conversation.

Let me ask you this: is the meaning the word takes on in the phrase "Hustle and bustle" really the use case of the word that you are cognitively associating with the runeword when checking its tonal match with its affixes?

Knappogue wrote: 10 months ago

I wish I could go back in time and told my past self to never engage in this conversation.

Alternatively, if the runeword was named "the act of hustling; esp., rough jostling or shoving", would you consider than an appropriate evocation of what the runeword does?

For once at least, the French name for the runeword, "Tumulte", looks way nicer than the original.

Something that is "tumultueux" would be for example a mountain river with lots of foam, or a meeting with everyone talking at the same time (who said "politics"?).

End of the cultural parenthesis.

Aelanwyr wrote: 10 months ago

Knappogue wrote: 10 months ago

I wish I could go back in time and told my past self to never engage in this conversation.

Let me ask you this: is the meaning the word takes on in the phrase "Hustle and bustle" really the use case of the word that you are cognitively associating with the runeword when checking its tonal match with its affixes?

Tbh, my personal primary use of the word Hustle is the verb definition. However, when I look at all the different affixes on both the weapon and armor runwords then yes 'Hustle and bustle' does come out at me. When I picture a character wearing both, I imagine a complete cacophony of activity. The aura, attack speed,

Evade, fhr,

Burst of Speed, plus the slower stamina drain, ontop of their extra dexterity would be the embodiment of 'Hustle and bustle'.

I agree with you that, of all the runewords, this one definitely struggles the most to fit the mold. I also agree that my interpretation of it is in the minority, but I'm simply saying there is a viewpoint where it does fit.

Aelanwyr wrote: 10 months ago

FULCRUM75 wrote: 10 months ago

Doesn't anyone know the most common meaning of the word?

-"Come on people, Hustle!" equates to -"Hurry up people, get moving".

It can also refer to urgent/urgency, expedite, hasten, make haste, bump/buffet/jog, force/press/rush and crowding...

To expand on my previous point, the noun meanings of "Hustle" are (1) the component of the phrase "Hustle and bustle" that almost never appears without its idiomatic partner and (2) a fraud or swindle, and the more modern derivatives of that use case. Neither definition is what the runeword appears to be appealing to. And if it is, it feels anachronistic, as both are, to my mind, connotatively linked to post-industrial society.

Except that you're wrong.
I'll repeat my quote from dictionary:
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hustle
>>>Hustle
2 of 2
noun
1
a
: energetic activity<<<

The above meaning came BEFORE that expression, and it is most certainly seen in this meaning.

"Hustle can be used as a noun, sure, but the noun versions of the word do not appeal to the connotative meaning of "speediness" that the runeword is clearly trying to appeal to. "

Yes, it does.

"Also, fwiw, a dictionary is a secondary source, a synthesis of (i.e. a commentary upon) primary sources."

Uh... O-k...

As a translator, proofreader and linguist, i find that a very, "interesting" way of putting it.

"But "to move fast" takes the structure of the definition of a verb"

No. I already proved otherwise with my dictionary link.

"which would make Hustle the only runeword to appeal primarily to a verb definition of the runeword's name. "

And even if that was true, why would that matter even the slightest? Completely irrelevant.

"Let me ask you this: is the meaning the word takes on in the phrase "Hustle and bustle""

That's not the ORIGIN of Hustle.

"really the use case of the word that you are cognitively associating with the runeword when checking its tonal match with its affixes? "

I don't think you know what tonal means. And why it's different from tone.

halflife wrote: 10 months ago

Indeed.

I'm sure you've heard of "Hustle Culture," and "Hustling" in general. Just because a term or phrase existed way back in Ye Olde times doesn't necessarily mean the same now (or it can, but) it can have added meanings, esp. considering cultures, subcultures, different time periods in history, evolution of language and slang, etc.

And ofc, individually YMMV in terms of interpretation when it comes to subjectivity.

https://www.reddit.com/r/memes/comments ... ookin_sus/

Just because there exists a slang meaning of something, does not remove the original, or derived and CONTEMPORARILY used meaning of it. Because yes, the word is used in its original meaning today. It's not even rare.

Otherwise you have to quit using at least 1/4 of the English language, because there is a slang usage of it SOMEWHERE that has markedly different meaning.
Before you seriously look into languages, you have no idea how many subcultures that actually exists with all sort of weird or outright insane slang of their own.
I've run into that once in my job as translator and i will literally never again take on a language job that involves such, because it's utterly impossible to do correctly without being part of said subculture.

And it's not a matter of subjectiveness when multiple dictionaries says that's what it mean.

I feel that this discussion starts going in a weird direction.

Gentle warning : don't let that slip !

Necrarch wrote: 10 months ago

I feel that this discussion starts going in a weird direction.

Gentle warning : don't let that slip !

I agree with you. I think this conversation started going sideways when there was refusal to accept the opinions (as well as facts) pushed by others. Nouns versus verbs (could be a metaphore for something larger too). What a weird thing to argue about.
Anyways, whether Hustle 'fits' the mold of the runewords is completely subjective. Most of the runewords are nouns or noun phrases, yes. But there are also a few which have transitive and intransitive verb usages too e,g, Hustle, Cure, Temper (just to name a few). Now, unless there is a D2 dev hiding amongst our users here, we will never really know their intent behind these. Did them mean for the noun or verb usage of these outlier runewords? There is no way one of us can prove that or make a definitive argument here. Because of that inability to concretely prove one way or another, the discussions turns into "my opinion is more right than yours".

I like (<- my opinion) the runeword Hustle BECAUSE it does not fit the Pattern.

FULCRUM75 wrote: 10 months ago

halflife wrote: 10 months ago

Indeed.

I'm sure you've heard of "Hustle Culture," and "Hustling" in general. Just because a term or phrase existed way back in Ye Olde times doesn't necessarily mean the same now (or it can, but) it can have added meanings, esp. considering cultures, subcultures, different time periods in history, evolution of language and slang, etc.

And ofc, individually YMMV in terms of interpretation when it comes to subjectivity.

https://www.reddit.com/r/memes/comments ... ookin_sus/

Just because there exists a slang meaning of something, does not remove the original, or derived and CONTEMPORARILY used meaning of it. Because yes, the word is used in its original meaning today. It's not even rare.

Otherwise you have to quit using at least 1/4 of the English language, because there is a slang usage of it SOMEWHERE that has markedly different meaning.
Before you seriously look into languages, you have no idea how many subcultures that actually exists with all sort of weird or outright insane slang of their own.
I've run into that once in my job as translator and i will literally never again take on a language job that involves such, because it's utterly impossible to do correctly without being part of said subculture.

And it's not a matter of subjectiveness when multiple dictionaries says that's what it mean.

You guys sure like to debate quite hotly over my interpretation of Hustle being an odd word for my own perceived reasons for such based on slang usage of said word. Keep up the good work, I am mildly amused and slightly confused at the fervor however.