act 1, 3 and 4 mercs

We all know that for any top tier build you usually use some kind of desert son merc as your trusty sidekick. Usually equipped with Infinity or ethereal reaper’s toll, ethereal Fortitude and

Andariel’s visage (yes, I know, a lot of people will disagree here, but please bear with me for a minute...)
But d2r is still a game and supposed to be fun! And playing a not top tier build is sometimes even more fun - or necessary, if your rng is not the best.
Hence this question/topic: What do you think for which build(s) are the act 1, 3 and 4 mercs effective or fun? Still with the rng in mind, so not equipped with any gear of

Jah/

Ber worth. I have read the manic Dream pixie post - that is not what I am talking about.

Just wondering about your thoughts?

What would define 'fun' for you?

Speaking from a performance perspective and ignoring the "no

Jah/

Ber worth" limitation, A2 wins 99.999999999999999999999999999% of the time. A5 would win a few more if their hit chance wasn't so utterly abysmal (and based on any perception vs theory flat out bugged to make it that bad). And A1 really only wins if you're on a build that gets more out of fana on the merc than from a stacked A2 merc which is very, very few of them. A3..isn't even worth going into detail on.

So if performance/optimization = fun then A2 is typically it.

If you're talking about gimmicky stuff that works with other mercs (e.g. various procs) then even that largely overlaps with A2 and doesn't make them any better (read: leaves a2 the better choice as they still add auras on top) and personally, I'd say a lot of the things that should make the others stand out and more "fun via variety" are too bad to still be fun. A3 lightning is a perfect example. If they had actually improved upon the AI and made him reliably cast static a couple of times as an opener, that merc might genuinely be good. And fun because you're finally looking at something different. But instead watching him

Charge bolt a full life target until you hurt it and then finally cast a static when everything is already so low that it doesn't do anything anymore...that's not fun imo, that's just depressing.

I would genuinely love to make other mercs work at comparable levels, both from a performance and a fun perspective, and have tried countless of times in various builds/approaches. But as is, I sadly just don't see it. And as a result, fun for me really only stems from the char itself and has precious little to do with the merc.

The one exception to all of the above I would say is A1 Insight while leveling as they are far easier to keep alive than a no-gear A2 merc.

Haha nice, I was just about to make a new topic: merc tier list, but schnorki said it well and it turns into something like this:

S tier: act 2 might (works with nearly all builds, many gear set-ups)
A tier: act 2

Holy Freeze, act 2

Prayer (works with lots of builds, lots of gear set-ups)
B tier: act 1 Ice, act 5

Frenzy (works with some builds, limited gear set-ups)
C tier: act 3 lightning, act 2

Defiance &

Blessed Aim (works with specific builds, specific gear set-ups)
D tier: act 3 fire and Ice, act 1 fire, act 2

Thorns (only works when the build is centred around the merc, only like 1 gear set to make it work)
F tier: all others (just a hassle, the merc won’t contribute to gameplay and will bankrupt you by the constant resurrection costs)

At least it’s a starting point,

I’ve done an act 3 fire merc back in 2.4, it was fun, just required a specific build and play style. Testing out unconventional merc set-ups is a fun end-game activity when you get sick of farming/grinding or you find a crazy unique/rare like an

Eth Kira’s guardian or hone Sudan

I am building a FoH Pala and I am thinking about keeping my act1 merc. Klaudia is already like a part of the family, you know?
Are there guides out there in hier top best gear up B tier mercs?

knightfall1985 wrote: 1 year ago

We all know that for any top tier build you usually use some kind of desert son merc as your trusty sidekick. Usually equipped with Infinity or ethereal reaper’s toll, ethereal Fortitude and

Andariel’s visage (yes, I know, a lot of people will disagree here, but please bear with me for a minute...)
But d2r is still a game and supposed to be fun! And playing a not top tier build is sometimes even more fun - or necessary, if your rng is not the best.
Hence this question/topic: What do you think for which build(s) are the act 1, 3 and 4 mercs effective or fun? Still with the rng in mind, so not equipped with any gear of

Jah/

Ber worth. I have read the manic Dream pixie post - that is not what I am talking about.

Just wondering about your thoughts?

funnily enough, I think none of my mercs has an Infinity (or maybe one, I would have to check, seriously). the opinion about infi is just way too off from the game in my opinion.
I have a few act2 mercs, only because they have the biggest benefit for the build. the rest is act1 and I think I have one barb as merc. act3 I still consider useless (some people put Dream on an act3 merc or stuff like that, for me personally still useless).

My Screamer Barb uses an Act 1 fire merc. I didn't feel like burning the skill points to get

Berserk so she kills ghosts for me with her

Grand Matron Bow Insight. It's not fast, by any means (if I could give an Insight to an Act 3 I'd have done that) but it does work.

Schnorki wrote: 1 year ago

What would define 'fun' for you?

Speaking from a performance perspective and ignoring the "no

Jah/

Ber worth" limitation, A2 wins 99.999999999999999999999999999% of the time. A5 would win a few more if their hit chance wasn't so utterly abysmal (and based on any perception vs theory flat out bugged to make it that bad). And A1 really only wins if you're on a build that gets more out of fana on the merc than from a stacked A2 merc which is very, very few of them. A3..isn't even worth going into detail on.

So if performance/optimization = fun then A2 is typically it.

If you're talking about gimmicky stuff that works with other mercs (e.g. various procs) then even that largely overlaps with A2 and doesn't make them any better (read: leaves a2 the better choice as they still add auras on top) and personally, I'd say a lot of the things that should make the others stand out and more "fun via variety" are too bad to still be fun. A3 lightning is a perfect example. If they had actually improved upon the AI and made him reliably cast static a couple of times as an opener, that merc might genuinely be good. And fun because you're finally looking at something different. But instead watching him

Charge bolt a full life target until you hurt it and then finally cast a static when everything is already so low that it doesn't do anything anymore...that's not fun imo, that's just depressing.

I would genuinely love to make other mercs work at comparable levels, both from a performance and a fun perspective, and have tried countless of times in various builds/approaches. But as is, I sadly just don't see it. And as a result, fun for me really only stems from the char itself and has precious little to do with the merc.

The one exception to all of the above I would say is A1 Insight while leveling as they are far easier to keep alive than a no-gear A2 merc.

I would argue that an amazon with an act1 Mist (or Faith) +

Windforce rips and for a dreamer and act1 merc with Ice or Faith also is a nice bonus (not a must tho, as a dreamer is a machine by him/herself). I gave my poison necro an act1 merc with Insight. dies a lot less, stays out of trouble and a surviving merc is a good merc.
I would argue that if you need an Insight only for your build you can go with act1 easily.

I know it wasn't included in your topic title, but feel it's worthy of mention: A5 merc with 2x Last Wish is incredible for dmg + survivability. Instant

Life Tap where ever I go + Lvl 34 Might Aura. So good for Trav barb with

Berserk. Just use a 1 point Physical damage attack such as

Concentrate or

Whirlwind and instantly back up to full health. Makes it possible to do P3+ Terrorized Trav (and other areas) fairly easily with 700%+ Magic Find, whereas before with A2 merc builds I was struggling to survive against certain enemy affixes while using MF gear. Might also be good for a Smiter build against Ubers and planning to test that soon to see if merc can actually survive.

And I also know people don't think MF is good for Trav, but with 700%+ and getting usually 1-3 uniques per run, I've seen some awesome drops. Got a nice rolled

Ormus last night from there. Makes it a lot more bearable farming it for hours on end, rather than just aiming for runes. Completing my Grail may actually be possible at this rate!

Whew I’ll bet dual Last Wish rocks!

You doing those runs when trav is terrorized too?

Nate wrote: 1 year ago

Whew I’ll bet dual Last Wish rocks!

You doing those runs when trav is terrorized too?

Yep, always trying to catch tz trav! Got a

Tyrael's Might there a week or two ago. Took a long time to get those Jahs and Bers to make both LWs but was definitely worth the investment for myself. And neither my merc nor I have died yet using this setup after thousands of runs on P3 with 600-700% MF and 77-78%

Find Item chance.

A1 with Ice : it's really good when paired with Delirium / Treachery in the Manic Pixie Dreamgirl build described here:

forums/manic-pixie-dreamgirl-an-alterna ... 65231.html

Have you tried her ? Really enjoy her with my sin for huge crowd control.

Just for OP, Barb is A5, not A4

Nate, you have not mentioned A2

Blessed Aim and

Defiance. Should probably be B or C.

Blessed Aim is excellent also for Barbs struggling with Attack Rating at start of hell.

Necrarch wrote: 1 year ago

A1 with Ice : it's really good when paired with Delirium / Treachery in the Manic Pixie Dreamgirl build described here:

forums/manic-pixie-dreamgirl-an-alterna ... 65231.html

Have you tried her ? Really enjoy her with my sin for huge crowd control.

Just for OP, Barb is A5, not A4

Nate, you have not mentioned A2

Blessed Aim and

Defiance. Should probably be B or C.

Blessed Aim is excellent also for Barbs struggling with Attack Rating at start of hell.

and

Defiance is amazing for a hamadin with Enigma, for example. you can

Teleport into mob groups without a care and have huge defence on you and the merc.

Yea I could probably add

Blessed Aim and

Defiance to D tier, no doubt they’re good for the builds you said, but probably not good enough for others. I’d argue barbs are still better with might and changing some gear/stats to address ar issues.

I’ve never tried

Defiance to be honest, so maybe I will, it’s been awhile since I’ve used my hammerdin (I retooled him to support my merc solo hell challenge).

knightfall1985 wrote: 1 year ago

I am building a FoH Pala and I am thinking about keeping my act1 merc. Klaudia is already like a part of the family, you know?

Does your wife know about it?

Fair question, but she doesn‘t know about Emilio and Fassel either. Feels like that conversation should happen first…

Nate wrote: 1 year ago

Yea I could probably add

Blessed Aim and

Defiance to D tier, no doubt they’re good for the builds you said, but probably not good enough for others. I’d argue barbs are still better with might and changing some gear/stats to address ar issues.

I’ve never tried

Defiance to be honest, so maybe I will, it’s been awhile since I’ve used my hammerdin (I retooled him to support my merc solo hell challenge).

Would tend to consider them as better than

Thorns, honestly. Except if you have an Exile in the party,

Defiance impact on not being hit is important, and even if

Blessed Aim is situational it's impact is significant.
More B or C.

Updated! Sorry knightfall1985 for hijacking the topic

Necrarch wrote: 1 year ago

A1 with Ice : it's really good when paired with Delirium / Treachery in the Manic Pixie Dreamgirl build described here:

forums/manic-pixie-dreamgirl-an-alterna ... 65231.html

Have you tried her ? Really enjoy her with my sin for huge crowd control.

Zod

Jah or

Ber are needed for her. Pretty much what I wrote I don‘t have…

Nate wrote: 1 year ago

Updated! Sorry knightfall1985 for hijacking the topic

That‘s okay. I got the message „don‘t ever do it!“ loud and clear…

knightfall1985 wrote: 1 year ago

Necrarch wrote: 1 year ago

A1 with Ice : it's really good when paired with Delirium / Treachery in the Manic Pixie Dreamgirl build described here:

forums/manic-pixie-dreamgirl-an-alterna ... 65231.html

Have you tried her ? Really enjoy her with my sin for huge crowd control.

Zod

Jah or

Ber are needed for her. Pretty much what I wrote I don‘t have…

Not quite.
Ice is damn expensive, grant you, and only could get it because a friend gave me a

Jah.
But before I was running upped

Wizendraw, and then good ol' Edge - worked like a charm. Treachery and Delirium are cheap (2

Lem + 1

Ist).

Sure with Edge she kills much less and does a bit less damage control than with Ice, but she definitely does decently already. DClone and Ubers are hard without Ice or BotD, but all the "normal" content works fine with Edge.