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1

do you think D2 developer actually made the game doable in hell?

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Can be used to make Runewords:

7
@ SuperIllu

What are you talking about back in the day there was no guides??

We didnt live in caves lmao. There were plenty of people who figured it all out and systems in place for everything and how to do it. The game has changed patch to patch so plenty isnt as relevant.

Sojs were currency for a very long time, probably more as a result of duping than anything else.

Ever hear of Map Hack? Drop hack?

Glitch where when you die and pick up an item it puts in on your character, so when you die again before grabbing your original body your original body "pops" and all your gear drops on the Ground and can be picked up by anyone? Only new players didnt know that and likely got screwed over a lot. No idea when that was fixed.

The game was always doable in hell and no doubt that the developers played all the "specs" or builds available. There were guides and there were ppl sharing the info with each other online etc. It certainly was harder with immunities which lead to immunities in the interest of build diversity as did synergies. I still with they would go back and consider improving some stuff. I think stuff like
Vengeance
paladin has too many synergies and they should have designed around say hitting level 90 as a way to nearly complete some builds. IT sometimes feels for some builds even now you gotta leave something on the table and it doesnt feel good but you make it work etc.

Millions of us cleared/farmed hell regularly.

Did you know
Secret Cow Level
wasnt always repeatable? Once per character per difficulty? If you wanted to do it after you needed other players to open the portal.

Respecs. If you didnt build your character right out of the gate, sucks for you time to make a new one because respecing, while ALWAYS desired by the original era of players, was never available? Added Cica 2010 1.13 patch which I largely didnt play as I was playing other games etc. Game was 9 years old by then.

Diabloii was a huge resource for this game at one point. I assume it disappeared a long time ago for at least a couple obvious reasons and might have remained around today had anyone known the game would get a refresh.

Iron Maiden
used to be a thing in
Chaos Sanctuary
and was removed. Kind of lame but I get that one.

So many things from days passed now forgotten or not part of discussion as patches have come in and fixed things etc.

They changed how IAS worked from Classic to LOD and it killed the ever popular
Lance
barb.

Anyway I know how I sound in this message but its odd how people think about the past and the misconceptions people have about how things were or might have been, and that applies to any topic not just this game.
7
SuperIllu wrote: 1 year ago
marek22 wrote: 1 year ago
Back in the olden days CS basically put a hard stop on any phys melee character that didn't know how to circumvent it because them skellies still cast
Iron Maiden
which was basically a guaranteed instant Death to any
Whirlwind
barb and the like (ok, not actually a hard stop since at least on SC you could just zerg it over and over and over until hours later you finally made it through).
dear god that was the bane of my existence worst part is i never played necro so it took me ages to figure out why the heck am i dying all the times
yeah, I remember trying to spin extra long distances, so that I could ESC and exit if that happened, since you couldn't die during the WW phase
The SOUND of
Iron Maiden
was so significant whenever I heard that on a barb I died a little inside....and so did my character lol. Unless I got lucky. Seat of the pants experience that is gone but I think its for the better overall.
7
I think because information is hidden from the player, it made hell that much more difficult. Once the game became data mined and botted to Death players were equipped with the correct information to navigate hell. When I first entered Hell at age 13 I didn't know what 'frames' or cast 'rate' was. I also didn't realize the extreme penalty to resistances in Hell, or that the character sheet was famously dubbed the 'lying sheet' because the information was misleading. What the hell is flat damage and why does that matter? So yeah my opinion is that the knowledge gap is what made completing the game so damn difficult back in the day.
7
OP
User avatar

rikus 150

Assassin Americas PC
EnergyDreams wrote: 1 week ago
Diabloii was a huge resource for this game at one point.
i remember fighting and yelling in the forums 25 years ago..
but i disagree about the data, or the difficulty. i rememeber distinctively in hell- wtf? a mere peon can demolish me? why do they hit so hard? wtf? this is bullshit-bye. then coming back again, with sorceress. oh great, immune. now what?? bye!!!!
that was how it was. i even have the poor characters from back in the days before remastered.
i admit, i wasnt the avid fan i am now, but it was because it was insanely hard and weird to tackle it.

i didn't use "guides, tutorials, builds" AT ALL 25 years ago, because mostly myself, and i hope other gamers here as well, study the game as they move along. without using the web. that's how it was. just learning it as we go.

no "runewords" nothing. just placing some gems and runes randomly to make it stronger. which was already weak, if you weren't a "FARMER". we should call this "FARMELIO" not diablo!
normal and nightmare were great. hell..if you don't know wtf you're doing it'll kick you back to other games.

goodluck, and may the RNG god be with you.
7
rikus wrote: 1 week ago
i didn't use "guides, tutorials, builds" AT ALL 25 years ago, because mostly myself, and i hope other gamers here as well, study the game as they move along. without using the web. that's how it was. just learning it as we go.

no "runewords" nothing. just placing some gems and runes randomly to make it stronger. which was already weak, if you weren't a "FARMER". we should call this "FARMELIO" not diablo!
normal and nightmare were great. hell..if you don't know wtf you're doing it'll kick you back to other games.
Just that happened to me in 2009 when I first played Diablo 2 LoD. I didn't have internet at that point in that location and I played "blindly".

After breezing past Normal and a had little challenge in Nightmare it came Hell. I played a
Zeal
Paladin and instantly when I exit
Blood Moor
the first
Zombie
that I came across, killed me. Not to say that I encounter a physical immune and took an Eternity to chisel down his life with just elemental damage that I had in my weapon.

After a very struggling Act I it came Act II and that was it.
rikus wrote: 1 week ago
i didn't use "guides, tutorials, builds" AT ALL
I didn't know that you can go back and farm for gear. I didn't know that are more powerful weapons, didn't know about the runewords (the runes seemed to be almost useless compared to perfec gems).
I could not pass the first pack of beetles and that was the end of the game for 15 years. Only after I played D2R and read a lot of guides I managed to finish the game, exactly 15 year later (plus one day).
7
^ ^ ^
Wow what a blast from the past haha.
I remember playing LOD when it first came out, had no idea about the more accessible RWs, thought the only good items worth holding onto that I could find were rares and uniques, and I was fixated on the RWs that took the nigh inaccessible runes, such as Fort, Faith, Delirium, Grief, BoTD, and I was unaware that +skills on a bowazon suck for giving phys damage, so I was trying to run a Vigermagi/Skulder's + Harmony and Melody in Hell, lmao

I couldn't get past act1, rofl
7
User avatar

Necrarch 2199Moderator

Necromancer Europe PC
Ah, started myself before LoD, so did the whole game with my Bone necro in pure solo mode. At that time, I would probably never have thought of looking on the Internet about build guides or so. Was rather lucky to have realized that
Bone Spear
seemed to be a good skill, because it was one that could bring you to end of Hell, together with a couple of summons. Even synergies were not a question back then... not to mention runes ! My Dream was to get Trang set, and I think I never got a single piece of it !

Image

Main: Necromancer / Second: Assassin / Third: Amazon / Check my stash, my crafts and my many cheap
Annihilus
7
This is a fun topic to try and remember. I cant remember how bad I suffered back in the day but I do remember than at one point early on "Patriarch/Matriarch" was actually a title that was respected and you didnt see those people in PuG games all the time (maybe Pugged in NM more then). Also my first toon was a barb and I remember how Grandfather was like the holy grail for barbs. Friend ran a bowazon and Deathrack felt so OP back then.

Fans had sort of demystified many aspects of the game by the time LoD arrived, but I do remember the runes and runewords becoming a huge thing for us casuals.

Man did I grind NM Meph a lot those days. Like hours and hours of spamming him hoping to get War Travellers, Vipermagis and other BIS stuff. Not on my bard though, switch to a sorc for
Teleport
at one point.
7
EnergyDreams wrote: 1 week ago
@ SuperIllu

What are you talking about back in the day there was no guides??

We didnt live in caves lmao. There were plenty of people who figured it all out and systems in place for everything and how to do it. The game has changed patch to patch so plenty isnt as relevant.

Sojs were currency for a very long time, probably more as a result of duping than anything else.

Ever hear of Map Hack? Drop hack?

Glitch where when you die and pick up an item it puts in on your character, so when you die again before grabbing your original body your original body "pops" and all your gear drops on the Ground and can be picked up by anyone? Only new players didnt know that and likely got screwed over a lot. No idea when that was fixed.

The game was always doable in hell and no doubt that the developers played all the "specs" or builds available. There were guides and there were ppl sharing the info with each other online etc. It certainly was harder with immunities which lead to immunities in the interest of build diversity as did synergies. I still with they would go back and consider improving some stuff. I think stuff like
Vengeance
paladin has too many synergies and they should have designed around say hitting level 90 as a way to nearly complete some builds. IT sometimes feels for some builds even now you gotta leave something on the table and it doesnt feel good but you make it work etc.

Millions of us cleared/farmed hell regularly.

Did you know
Secret Cow Level
wasnt always repeatable? Once per character per difficulty? If you wanted to do it after you needed other players to open the portal.

Respecs. If you didnt build your character right out of the gate, sucks for you time to make a new one because respecing, while ALWAYS desired by the original era of players, was never available? Added Cica 2010 1.13 patch which I largely didnt play as I was playing other games etc. Game was 9 years old by then.

Diabloii was a huge resource for this game at one point. I assume it disappeared a long time ago for at least a couple obvious reasons and might have remained around today had anyone known the game would get a refresh.

Iron Maiden
used to be a thing in
Chaos Sanctuary
and was removed. Kind of lame but I get that one.

So many things from days passed now forgotten or not part of discussion as patches have come in and fixed things etc.

They changed how IAS worked from Classic to LOD and it killed the ever popular
Lance
barb.

Anyway I know how I sound in this message but its odd how people think about the past and the misconceptions people have about how things were or might have been, and that applies to any topic not just this game.
Also no shared storage so transfering items between characters required either having a friend hold them or dropping them on the Ground. People would join public games and throw stuff on the Ground to leave a rejoin with another character, and those in game sometimes went frantically searching for the drop spot.

Storage space was also significantly smaller. Chest was like Horadrdic cube space or maybe slightly bigger if I remember correctly.

Absolutely hated
Iron Maiden
and my first WW barb died so many times before I learned to search for the caster skellies and zerk them before whirling through the packs. There was always one guy hiding somewhere you didnt see who then cast the spell causing immediate suicide.

Also what often fails to get mentioned from the OG game is how brutal the fire enchanted uniques
Corpse Explosion
on Death was for melee builds. If the enemy was fire+cold enchanted that was like a guaranteed one shot. I think it hit about as hard as Nihlatak's skill hits these days except gear and everything was worse so usually you had to be close to full health to survive it.
7
Original d2? or d2r? d2r devs did nothing else than copy-paste the original to new engine and didnt even do a great job at that.
7
Semirotta wrote: 6 days ago
d2r devs did nothing else than copy-paste the original to new engine and didnt even do a great job at that.
I dare to disagree a bit. While they could have done much, much more, they still managed to implement some key changes:
  • class and hireling balancing (2.4) - only to be ruined by Mosaic in 2.6
  • farming zones: more level 85 areas (2.4) and later Terror Zones (2.5)
  • old content available on NLD (but at the same time introduced new LD content)
  • sunders (2.5; I consider it a negative change)
  • tens of bugs fixed (all patches)
7
User avatar

ShadowHeart 2830Moderator

Europe PC
Vandaali83 wrote: 6 days ago
Storage space was also significantly smaller. Chest was like Horadrdic cube space or maybe slightly bigger if I remember correctly.
If you make a classic (non-expansion) character in D2R right now, you get 6x4 pesonal stash space and no shared stash tabs.

I think that's what you had back then as well, but I'm not 100% sure.

I'm in CET (Central European Time), so that's UTC+1 normally and UTC+2 during DST.
My profile says Ladder, but I play both Ladder and Non-Ladder.
7
User avatar

BonyM 68

Necromancer PC
I am pretty sure some earlier version had no skill synergies, nor there were any runes.
Beating the game on hell was quite the challenge.
Doable sure, reasonable? Maybe not, i think they counted on people playing with friends.
7
Trang Oul wrote: 6 days ago
Semirotta wrote: 6 days ago
d2r devs did nothing else than copy-paste the original to new engine and didnt even do a great job at that.
I dare to disagree a bit. While they could have done much, much more, they still managed to implement some key changes:
  • class and hireling balancing (2.4) - only to be ruined by Mosaic in 2.6
  • farming zones: more level 85 areas (2.4) and later Terror Zones (2.5)
  • old content available on NLD (but at the same time introduced new LD content)
  • sunders (2.5; I consider it a negative change)
  • tens of bugs fixed (all patches)
Well yes, true, they have improved many things compared to original and it is nowhere as much of a grind to obtain certain things, but it is still similar bot host machine as the original was and they bother very little to do anything about it. Perhaps its what keeps the game "alive"? dont know.
7
User avatar

ShadowHeart 2830Moderator

Europe PC
BonyM wrote: 6 days ago
I am pretty sure some earlier version had no skill synergies, nor there were any runes.
Beating the game on hell was quite the challenge.
Doable sure, reasonable? Maybe not, i think they counted on people playing with friends.
Yes, synergies were a major change. It wasn't part of D2 originally, not even LoD when LoD first came out, but was patched in at a later point. They did a massive skill revisal in patch 1.10 which added synergies (LoD's launch patch was 1.07).

Runes (and rune words) were added with LoD (patch 1.07). Initially there were only 20 rune words (the original list found here: https://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/i ... inal.shtml), then patch 1.10 added a whole bunch (all the popular endgame/BiS ones), and 1.11 a couple more.

You also have to remember that before 1.10 (the patch that added synergies and all of the endgame/BiS rune words), monsters were much weaker. They buffed monsters significantly in that same patch. You can't look at the monsters as they are today and think what it was like without rune words or synergies. It wasn't like that. Monster stats like HP were increased a lot, from what I recall. I had characters that had beaten Hell before 1.10 and then tried to play on Hell post-1.10 and remember getting pwned by normal mobs.

I'm in CET (Central European Time), so that's UTC+1 normally and UTC+2 during DST.
My profile says Ladder, but I play both Ladder and Non-Ladder.
7
Semirotta wrote: 6 days ago
Trang Oul wrote: 6 days ago
Semirotta wrote: 6 days ago
d2r devs did nothing else than copy-paste the original to new engine and didnt even do a great job at that.
I dare to disagree a bit. While they could have done much, much more, they still managed to implement some key changes:
(...)
Well yes, true, they have improved many things compared to original and it is nowhere as much of a grind to obtain certain things, but it is still similar bot host machine as the original was and they bother very little to do anything about it. Perhaps its what keeps the game "alive"? dont know.
That's what I meant by "much, much more". Literally nothing was done to combat the cheating, neither in-game (botting) nor externally (P2W business).
7
Trang Oul wrote: 5 days ago
Semirotta wrote: 6 days ago
Trang Oul wrote: 6 days ago


I dare to disagree a bit. While they could have done much, much more, they still managed to implement some key changes:
(...)
Well yes, true, they have improved many things compared to original and it is nowhere as much of a grind to obtain certain things, but it is still similar bot host machine as the original was and they bother very little to do anything about it. Perhaps its what keeps the game "alive"? dont know.
That's what I meant by "much, much more". Literally nothing was done to combat the cheating, neither in-game (botting) nor externally (P2W business).
I honestly believe Activision Blizzard has some kind of income from the bots. Just like Fagex at Runescape, they could get rid 99% of the bots, but they provide so much income there is no point banning every bot in a heartbeat as they would not come back as eagerly. Now as they ban few thousand bots here and there, they keep coming back as the owners are not discouraged by the banning.
So as I see it, its just greed.
7
User avatar

ShadowHeart 2830Moderator

Europe PC
Semirotta wrote: 5 days ago
I honestly believe Activision Blizzard has some kind of income from the bots.
I mean, each bot obviously needs an individual BNet account with a copy of the game. That's revenue right there. Cheating hasn't stopped Blizzard from banning people in WoW, a subscription based game unlike D2R where banning someone loses Blizzard steady income. So I'm not sure you're right at all about the motive here - I think it's far more likely that they simply don't care enough, or are understaffed (the whole D2R team moved on years ago - they quit, were let go, or were moved to work on D4 or some other game). Not saying that Blizzard has too few employees to deal with it - I'm saying that they are all (or almost all) assigned to other games/tasks and are not allowed to touch D2R even if they wanted to. It's a management issue.

This is all a bit off-topic though, and I don't want to derail it too much.

I'm in CET (Central European Time), so that's UTC+1 normally and UTC+2 during DST.
My profile says Ladder, but I play both Ladder and Non-Ladder.
9

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