Easiest way to verify new jewel performance.
1. equip Guillaume's Face with no jewel , do run
vs
2. Guillaume's Face with jewel
1 jewel difference should be huge, if it still no difference....you may consider put ias or defense jewel, not offensive.
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Schnorki
Can be used to make Runewords:
Some Trade is available for both rotw and LoD, Most rune , Perfect Gems is only in LoD side.
I will busy at us Stock market open time. 9:30 a.m. ET
I will busy at us Stock market open time. 9:30 a.m. ET
Alright, after way too much theorycrafting, number crunching and playtesting, me thinks that response needs to be revised.
Absolutely happy now, Windforce is back and better than ever! Finally get to have my cake and eat it, too!
(Took some serious iterating though..and one insanely helpful random dude who was actually able to hook me up with every still missing piece for my live zon in 1 trade to finish getting her re-worked)
Can you share your Windforce build with Stone?Schnorki wrote: 2 months agoAlright, after way too much theorycrafting, number crunching and playtesting, me thinks that response needs to be revised.
Absolutely happy now, Windforce is back and better than ever! Finally get to have my cake and eat it, too!
(Took some serious iterating though..and one insanely helpful random dude who was actually able to hook me up with every still missing piece for my live zon in 1 trade to finish getting her re-worked)
I currently have a 120ias Windforce zon that's just about BIS in everyway. I just got a killer protectors Stone with -10 /48ed that I'm thinking of putting in a Windforce. A little nervous since the Stone is so valuable.
Do you think it's worth it? How did you deal with loosing 15ias on Windforce? I'm thinking of using Hustle on switch to make up that 15ias, but I'm going to miss having Harmony on switch.
Always accepting Worusk's End and Korlic's Pain statues for trades. Also accept keys for trades.
i really don't get why people neglect Mist + Faith on merc. Mist has max attack speed on Strafe / gmb and 100% Pierce, without investing dozens of jahs into multiple 15/40 jewels. everything but t5 heralds and Baal dies instantly. Valkyrie is immortal and holds everything at bay. and for t5 heralds, just swap bows with merc and Strafe them down. although i don't notice much difference between Faith and Mist in this case, both a bit slow (and shame that Valkyrie dps is so low)
But figuring out the build is half the fun! Or..most of the fun even. ^^brownSys wrote: 1 month ago[..]
Can you share your Windforce build with Stone?
I currently have a 120ias Windforce zon that's just about BIS in everyway. I just got a killer protectors Stone with -10 /48ed that I'm thinking of putting in a Windforce. A little nervous since the Stone is so valuable.
Do you think it's worth it? How did you deal with loosing 15ias on Windforce? I'm thinking of using Hustle on switch to make up that 15ias, but I'm going to miss having Harmony on switch.
I'd say it is absolutely worth it. At least if you enjoy a phys bowzon in general. Properly adjusted for, a stoned WF zon is just brilliant. What that means exactly depends a bit on your play style and preferences though as there is no "1 build fits all" if we're being honest. So things like " Strafe v. multi v. both", res capped or not, "full dex v. full vit v. middle Ground" and so on and so forth (though personally I never got the appeal of full vit on a zon..unnecessary and counterproductive imo).
It's a bit off-topic, but seeing as we have some bow enthusiasts here: my Enchant sorceress is rocking a Demon Machine with a 20% IAS jewel. Since I'll have to make them for the chronicle anyway, would Faith or Brand improve her damage output?
NOT PLAYING MUCH LATELY; ON MY MINECRAFT/MELEE GRIND
You can always make alternative offers with Keys.
I don't really trade in pgems.
Can trade on PC and Switch
second account JuliePayette#1511
You can always make alternative offers with Keys.
I don't really trade in pgems.
Can trade on PC and Switch
second account JuliePayette#1511
@Schnorki
I'm going to second this.
I'm going to second this.
Question - why do people always pair the bowazon with an act 1 merc? I mean I like the feeling of it - all bow / ranged. But wouldn’t an act 2 might merc with Pride/ Concentration be more effective, especially if running Faith/ Fanaticism on the main?Schnorki wrote: 3 months agoThose who have been around for a while and read through the occasional Amazon topic here might recall that I tend to be on the "die hard Windforce side" of things. But I figured let me depart from that for a minute and give some credit where credit is due.
For one, Protector's Stone has very much shifted the eternal debate between WF and Faith from "matter of taste, they're too close to ever get a clear winner" to what in every new top-end variation I can come up with so far typically results in "Faith now wins by a decent margin in the all-rounder builds, at least/especially when focusing on multi shot" and "WF utterly crushes Faith in full-on dmg, pure dex builds, especially for Strafe". Which makes sense I guess, seeing how Faith has a far easier time squeezing in a Stone without giving up too many other things but WF benefits far more from it when you do fit it in as it becomes pure weapon dmg (which then gets further amplified by the extra dex-ed in full dex builds).
For another, theorycrafting aside, the chronicle had me make a new Faith anyways so I figured might as well give the reality of it a go and do some proper shard running with it.
To no surprise, much like WF before it, it completely annihilates any TZ96 mobs that dare stand in range. With the only obvious exception being some higher tier heralds though even those largely drop disturbingly fast to a bowzon. And off-screen if you have the room.
What did surprise me though and I guess what I'm making this post to give some credit for is that I noticed something that I never noticed before as pre- Herald, mobs just fell over dead too fast for it to ever become a factor:
Those undead Bobs Faith summons are actually crazy good tanks. Just multi-shotting down the adds around a Herald tends to pop up a handful of them and as it turns out, they can actually full on Swarm and face tank most T5 heralds:
image.png
Only came up against 2 heralds that didn't get "Faith swarmed". One because I got unlucky and not a single one got spawned off the adds. And one that actually rolled so much dmg that it did finally manage to chew through them.
But those two aside, can't help but be genuinely surprised by how good they are at keeping heralds busy so you can shred them in Peace.
Given, I'm still trying to figure out a better way to get WF back into all-rounder builds as well and really the only reason WF doesn't crush Faith across the board with a Stone is that A1 mercs utterly fail at staying in fana range if you try to use those on a proper build but hey, that's a separate topic.
Depends on the build.varangium wrote: 3 hours agoQuestion - why do people always pair the bowazon with an act 1 merc? I mean I like the feeling of it - all bow / ranged. But wouldn’t an act 2 might merc with Pride/ Concentration be more effective, especially if running Faith/ Fanaticism on the main?Schnorki wrote: 3 months agoThose who have been around for a while and read through the occasional Amazon topic here might recall that I tend to be on the "die hard Windforce side" of things. But I figured let me depart from that for a minute and give some credit where credit is due.
For one, Protector's Stone has very much shifted the eternal debate between WF and Faith from "matter of taste, they're too close to ever get a clear winner" to what in every new top-end variation I can come up with so far typically results in "Faith now wins by a decent margin in the all-rounder builds, at least/especially when focusing on multi shot" and "WF utterly crushes Faith in full-on dmg, pure dex builds, especially for Strafe". Which makes sense I guess, seeing how Faith has a far easier time squeezing in a Stone without giving up too many other things but WF benefits far more from it when you do fit it in as it becomes pure weapon dmg (which then gets further amplified by the extra dex-ed in full dex builds).
For another, theorycrafting aside, the chronicle had me make a new Faith anyways so I figured might as well give the reality of it a go and do some proper shard running with it.
To no surprise, much like WF before it, it completely annihilates any TZ96 mobs that dare stand in range. With the only obvious exception being some higher tier heralds though even those largely drop disturbingly fast to a bowzon. And off-screen if you have the room.
What did surprise me though and I guess what I'm making this post to give some credit for is that I noticed something that I never noticed before as pre- Herald, mobs just fell over dead too fast for it to ever become a factor:
Those undead Bobs Faith summons are actually crazy good tanks. Just multi-shotting down the adds around a Herald tends to pop up a handful of them and as it turns out, they can actually full on Swarm and face tank most T5 heralds:
image.png
Only came up against 2 heralds that didn't get "Faith swarmed". One because I got unlucky and not a single one got spawned off the adds. And one that actually rolled so much dmg that it did finally manage to chew through them.
But those two aside, can't help but be genuinely surprised by how good they are at keeping heralds busy so you can shred them in Peace.
Given, I'm still trying to figure out a better way to get WF back into all-rounder builds as well and really the only reason WF doesn't crush Faith across the board with a Stone is that A1 mercs utterly fail at staying in fana range if you try to use those on a proper build but hey, that's a separate topic.
If you run Faith on the zon then yeah, A1 is just a waste.
The real point of A1 is to give a WF zon access to fana by slapping Faith onto the merc in which case it can beat an A2 conc/might merc.
Though even then, the problem is that A1 mercs tend to run away a lot, their run speed (even fully geared for it) sucks compared to a runner-zon and fana's range sucks so even for many a WF zon build, A2 wins hands down because A1 is just hardly ever close enough to actually grant the fana you hire her for.
admittedly my zon is not a runner (but still 70 frw from Enigma and war trav), and yet, I don't see being out of fana range as a problem - happens very rarely with lvl 13 fana
not uncommon that the rogue sleeps on the job and does nothing or shoots into wall, but I'm almost always in range of fana
not uncommon that the rogue sleeps on the job and does nothing or shoots into wall, but I'm almost always in range of fana
Schnorki wrote: 3 hours agoDepends on the build.varangium wrote: 3 hours agoQuestion - why do people always pair the bowazon with an act 1 merc? I mean I like the feeling of it - all bow / ranged. But wouldn’t an act 2 might merc with Pride/ Concentration be more effective, especially if running Faith/ Fanaticism on the main?Schnorki wrote: 3 months agoThose who have been around for a while and read through the occasional Amazon topic here might recall that I tend to be on the "die hard Windforce side" of things. But I figured let me depart from that for a minute and give some credit where credit is due.
For one, Protector's Stone has very much shifted the eternal debate between WF and Faith from "matter of taste, they're too close to ever get a clear winner" to what in every new top-end variation I can come up with so far typically results in "Faith now wins by a decent margin in the all-rounder builds, at least/especially when focusing on multi shot" and "WF utterly crushes Faith in full-on dmg, pure dex builds, especially for Strafe". Which makes sense I guess, seeing how Faith has a far easier time squeezing in a Stone without giving up too many other things but WF benefits far more from it when you do fit it in as it becomes pure weapon dmg (which then gets further amplified by the extra dex-ed in full dex builds).
For another, theorycrafting aside, the chronicle had me make a new Faith anyways so I figured might as well give the reality of it a go and do some proper shard running with it.
To no surprise, much like WF before it, it completely annihilates any TZ96 mobs that dare stand in range. With the only obvious exception being some higher tier heralds though even those largely drop disturbingly fast to a bowzon. And off-screen if you have the room.
What did surprise me though and I guess what I'm making this post to give some credit for is that I noticed something that I never noticed before as pre- Herald, mobs just fell over dead too fast for it to ever become a factor:
Those undead Bobs Faith summons are actually crazy good tanks. Just multi-shotting down the adds around a Herald tends to pop up a handful of them and as it turns out, they can actually full on Swarm and face tank most T5 heralds:
image.png
Only came up against 2 heralds that didn't get "Faith swarmed". One because I got unlucky and not a single one got spawned off the adds. And one that actually rolled so much dmg that it did finally manage to chew through them.
But those two aside, can't help but be genuinely surprised by how good they are at keeping heralds busy so you can shred them in Peace.
Given, I'm still trying to figure out a better way to get WF back into all-rounder builds as well and really the only reason WF doesn't crush Faith across the board with a Stone is that A1 mercs utterly fail at staying in fana range if you try to use those on a proper build but hey, that's a separate topic.
If you run Faith on the zon then yeah, A1 is just a waste.
The real point of A1 is to give a WF zon access to fana by slapping Faith onto the merc in which case it can beat an A2 conc/might merc.
Though even then, the problem is that A1 mercs tend to run away a lot, their run speed (even fully geared for it) sucks compared to a runner-zon and fana's range sucks so even for many a WF zon build, A2 wins hands down because A1 is just hardly ever close enough to actually grant the fana you hire her for.
And that would be why it works for you.
If you go for actual run speed and a proper damage-focused build though (in which the added run speed makes up for loss of Enigma, to some extent), come proper gear, you end up clearing and moving so quickly that A1 mercs just don't keep up and offer close to no fana uptime whatsoever. Tested that time and time again but even while maxing out the merc's run speed, it just doesn't work for a proper endgame non-tele zon.
sure. however, you kill everything so fast that Fanaticism only matters when you meet tougher targets, and for them you normally stand long enough for the merc to catch up?
Schnorki wrote: 1 hour agoAnd that would be why it works for you.
If you go for actual run speed and a proper damage-focused build though (in which the added run speed makes up for loss of Enigma, to some extent), come proper gear, you end up clearing and moving so quickly that A1 mercs just don't keep up and offer close to no fana uptime whatsoever. Tested that time and time again but even while maxing out the merc's run speed, it just doesn't work for a proper endgame non-tele zon.
Merc doesn't catch up until you hit a boss or Herald. And even then, it depends on the map/location as they get stuck on some random corner far too easily, leaving you with no merc regardless of how long you wait.ganseng wrote: 1 hour agosure. however, you kill everything so fast that Fanaticism only matters when you meet tougher targets, and for them you normally stand long enough for the merc to catch up?
Schnorki wrote: 1 hour agoAnd that would be why it works for you.
If you go for actual run speed and a proper damage-focused build though (in which the added run speed makes up for loss of Enigma, to some extent), come proper gear, you end up clearing and moving so quickly that A1 mercs just don't keep up and offer close to no fana uptime whatsoever. Tested that time and time again but even while maxing out the merc's run speed, it just doesn't work for a proper endgame non-tele zon.
A2 on the other just works. Not because they're that much quicker or don't get stuck (same issues really) but simply because their aura range is massively higher so they tend to have you covered even while mostly outpacing them or from most corners they're stuck behind.
Given, A2 still doesn't offer 100% uptime to a proper run/dmg build but they at least get close.
And I get your line of thinking with "you'll still get fana when you need it for real targets" and in terms of the ED boost, that's true and valid. The problem is that if you want to really make use of fana, you're not just looking at ED but you're intentionally slacking on IAS because you're building around having fana. So anytime you don't have it, you tend to lose 3 full frames on multi/GA and even more on Strafe. That kills your clear speed, even on trash and even with otherwise still overkill dmg. And if you get the IAS anyways to avoid that then there's no point to fana on heralds/bosses either as conc/might then outperforms it since you're not gaining the full IAS aspect anymore because you gave up most of the gearing advantage to avoid the trash-slowdown.
all true except, subjectively, when fighting heralds or Baal, rogue always sticks close enough to me
it's just losing a few frames on killing mobs isn't really material for me as i'm not aiming for top machine-like performance.. and waste much more time shuffling trash in the cube or kicking amphoras in the tombs
my conclusion is that Faith//Mist/ Windforce was a very close call before the uber jewels, but with the uber jewel Windforce pulls too far ahead
now we just need a persistent Valkyrie with equippable gear (Pride), and an improved Metalgrid with survivable Iron Golem (Last Wish)
it's just losing a few frames on killing mobs isn't really material for me as i'm not aiming for top machine-like performance.. and waste much more time shuffling trash in the cube or kicking amphoras in the tombs
my conclusion is that Faith//Mist/ Windforce was a very close call before the uber jewels, but with the uber jewel Windforce pulls too far ahead
now we just need a persistent Valkyrie with equippable gear (Pride), and an improved Metalgrid with survivable Iron Golem (Last Wish)
Schnorki wrote: 26 minutes agoMerc doesn't catch up until you hit a boss or Herald. And even then, it depends on the map/location as they get stuck on some random corner far too easily, leaving you with no merc regardless of how long you wait.ganseng wrote: 1 hour agosure. however, you kill everything so fast that Fanaticism only matters when you meet tougher targets, and for them you normally stand long enough for the merc to catch up?
Schnorki wrote: 1 hour ago
And that would be why it works for you.
If you go for actual run speed and a proper damage-focused build though (in which the added run speed makes up for loss of Enigma, to some extent), come proper gear, you end up clearing and moving so quickly that A1 mercs just don't keep up and offer close to no fana uptime whatsoever. Tested that time and time again but even while maxing out the merc's run speed, it just doesn't work for a proper endgame non-tele zon.
A2 on the other just works. Not because they're that much quicker or don't get stuck (same issues really) but simply because their aura range is massively higher so they tend to have you covered even while mostly outpacing them or from most corners they're stuck behind.
Given, A2 still doesn't offer 100% uptime to a proper run/dmg build but they at least get close.
And I get your line of thinking with "you'll still get fana when you need it for real targets" and in terms of the ED boost, that's true and valid. The problem is that if you want to really make use of fana, you're not just looking at ED but you're intentionally slacking on IAS because you're building around having fana. So anytime you don't have it, you tend to lose 3 full frames on multi/GA and even more on Strafe. That kills your clear speed, even on trash and even with otherwise still overkill dmg. And if you get the IAS anyways to avoid that then there's no point to fana on heralds/bosses either as conc/might then outperforms it since you're not gaining the full IAS aspect anymore because you gave up most of the gearing advantage to avoid the trash-slowdown.
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