Time to roll my first Infinity

While having played the game for a long time I'm fairly new to trading, so I started building Wealth only recently. But now I've recently acquired my second Ber (well technically my third as I've got an Enigma already), and that means its time to roll my first Infinity.

The question is only, which base?

The answer to that question of course depends on my uses. Here is my current priority list of uses:

1. Most immediately, I plan to share it between the A2 mercs of my elementalists (Sorcs, LF Javazon, Trapsin)
2. I'm also leveling a lightning Spearzon for self-wield, and that is on the shorter time horizon
3. I'd also like to try a self-wield Nova sorc some time in the future, but that project is no hurry as I have several builds before it on my list

My current thinking is to roll it in a non-superior (for the repair cost) and non-ethereal Mancatcher, to which is to optimize for uses (2) + (1), and save (3) for future Ber s. Then I would share it between mercs and the spearzon for now, and it will eventually end up with the spearzon. This strategy is based on the idea that Mancatcher is actually best base for the spearzon, as it is faster than the zon spears (-20 vs 0). I guess the open question about this strategy is, am I mistaken and is it actually better to have the +3 of an amazon Spear despite a slower base?

Another option is to roll it in a Brandistock (also speed = -20) as to make it viable for all three uses (and even for self-wield with a trapsin if I would like). However, in the short term, would that hurt the life/mana leech of the mercs and the spearzon too much?

The Brandistock would otherwise be my second Infinity, then primarily for the future Nova sorc (I know Scythe is an option too).

I also foresee getting a third Infinity in an ethereal elite base for mercs, but then the minus res roll won't matter as much, so to that end I can probably buy a mediocre -res roll for the equivalent of Jah + small change. For the two self-wield uses I outline above I definitely want to roll it myself, to have the chance of a high roll!

So, I'm basically thinking aloud and I'm curious to hear if anyone has input on my reasoning. It is not really a high-stakes decision but I still want to make sure it is reasonably thought through

Thanks!

leox wrote: 2 months ago

...
Javazon : use Jab or Charged Strike, mainly use Spear hit directly. not throw.

Mancatcher
Sorcs, V
Javazon, O
Trapsin V
Self- Nova X

+3 of an amazon Spear
Sorcs, X
Javazon, O
Trapsin X
Self- Nova X


Eth Tresher / Mancatcher
Sorcs, O
Javazon, X
Trapsin O
Self- Nova V

+3 of an amazon Spear vs Mancatcher
Charged Strike X O
Fend O X
Impale/ Jab ?
You need to run calculator to check your ias with it. If ias is same amazon Spear wins all.

Thanks for the breakdown, it kind of confirms my intuition (though I didn't get what you meant by the Javazon using an Infinity Spear?). You are right about the IAS, I should check the breakpoints although I don't really have the planned spearzon geared out yet. That's one reason why I think of the Mancatcher as first choice, it will be less dependent on other gear. Also good point about the Colossus Voulge often 1-shotting enemies, I didn't think of that.

feitan1206 wrote: 2 months ago

id go schythe in case you wanna selfwield, with javazon you dont need merc dmg

Right, I thought about merc survivability (through life leech) but maybe that too is a non-issue with Conviction+javazon

justinman114 wrote: 2 months ago

If you are going to self-wield, I would definitely use a Scythe, Mancatcher has way to high dex (and str) requirements. If for a merc, I prefer ethereal Mancatcher for its high attack speed, but ethereal Thresher or Giant Thresher are also great ( Colossus Voulge and Stygian Pike also could be considered).

Yes, I agree Scythe is better than the alternatives for self-wield sorc (I never considered the Mancatcher for that use, but possibly the Brandistock). As I'll roll for at least one self-wield use the ethereal elite alternatives will have to wait for now.

leox wrote: 2 months ago

javzon, sorry, I mean to say spearzon. amazon use Spear to hit monster directly, not throw style.

anyway, go check ias and decide.

Thanks, then it makes sense!

I did some back-of-napkin math using the IAS calculator on this site, on the IAS needed for the Amazon to reach 9FPA with each weapon:

Reaching 9 frames per attack...

Without Burst of Speed or Fanaticism:
Matriarchal spear (speed 0): 125 IAS (!)
Mancatcher (speed -20): 63 IAS

With lvl 12 Fanaticism from a Faith merc (if they stay in range):
Matriarchal spear (speed 0): 40 IAS
Mancatcher (speed -20): 11 IAS

With lvl 1 Burst of Speed from Hustle weapon on swap:
Matriarchal spear (speed 0): 60 IAS
Mancatcher (speed -20): 24 IAS

So without Faith/BoS it looks like Mancatcher wins, assuming realistic gear. With Faith on the merc the amazon Spear might be better. Without Faith but BoS from Hustle (somewhat cumbersome to re-proc) the zon Spear is doable, but limits gear options quite a lot.

All this is from only considering the self-wield spearzon obviously. For now it looks like I will stick with the Mancatcher plan for the self-wield lightning spearzon, to make her a lot easier to gear up. This also synergizes well with sharing the weapon with A2 mercs for other chars, as I outlined above (which would not have been possible with an amazon Spear).

I went with the Mancatcher and I figured I'd post the results. -54% resist, 268% ed. Nothing to complain about there!
The RNG gods were considerate and put the effort where it mattered, given my plan of a future self-use spearzon - on minus res rather than ED.

So far I tried it on the A2 Merc of my Chain Lightning/ Hydra sorc (so not really making use of the minus res yet). With her current gear - full Tal set with Wall of the eyeless (Edit: sorry I meant Lidless Wall) and speed/res Boots - she becomes a tad too mana-hungry (the CL part) to really shine without Insight. So I have some adjustment to do before taking full advantage of the Conviction with her. Maybe switch to Spirit shield and Silkweave as a starting point, and see how it goes.

mikelessar wrote: 2 months ago

Gratz!

Yes, switch to Spirit, the extra Str points needed are well spent. Wall of the Eyeless is rather weak.

An Amazon can use a Mancatcher, for sure, but an Amazon Spear with +3 skills would be better. Maybe that's the next Infi for you. Or you trade for it. Some are as cheap as just 1 Ber.

Thanks! I realized I mixed up the shields, it is actually Lidless Wall I'm currently using. But I think your advice would be the same regardless

W.r.t. the Spear choice, that was actually part of my original question. I went with the Mancatcher for two reasons, the main one was to be able to use it with many chars (as @leox already mentioned), the other was based on my calculation above that my future spearzon will realistically be at least one IAS breakpoint behind with a Matriarchal Spear compared to the Mancatcher. But maybe the +3 of a zon- Spear would actually be worth the loss of one or two frames per attack?

Either way, for my first roll I still the prefer the flexibility of a weapon that A2 mercs can use as well as amazons.