Thought on Heralds

RackAnewShoe wrote: 4 days ago

sbn wrote: 5 days ago

With the correct amount of MF you can farm new Bobbys on a nightly basis..

Teach me how I can get enough MF for nightly Bobby-farming sessions. I seem to have that game mode still locked.

Well, I can tell you completing the runs in 1-2 minutes as sbn mentioned earlier probably won't lead to, erm, satisfying results.

Has anyone else experienced 2 Heralds at the same time? I have experienced this a few times:

In

Cold Plains after Ire stack in

Tristram
Cows after Ire stack in Trav
Catacombs lvl 3 after Ire stack in Trav

I tried to get them closer to each other in 3rd picture but already died once jumping back and forth over the wall. You can see the purple halos.

This is not a system, just dumb luck. Most of the time I never see an Ire alert in Trav. Stacks happen in small areas.

I always have Act 1 TZ.
I start by TZ Act 5 and kill

Baal and work my way down Act 5 then TZ Act 4, Act 3 ... I go to Act 1 when a 5th level Ire alert shows up. Heralds usually show up soon but not always.

Looking for a better strategy

I had two ires stacked and a

Herald spawned. Before I found it I had the second one spawned. I killed both of them but they were not so close like yours.
The most stacked ires were three.

imrd2u wrote: 21 hours ago

Has anyone else experienced 2 Heralds at the same time? I have experienced this a few times:

In

Cold Plains after Ire stack in

Tristram
Cows after Ire stack in Trav
Catacombs lvl 3 after Ire stack in Trav

I tried to get them closer to each other in 3rd picture but already died once jumping back and forth over the wall. You can see the purple halos.

This is not a system, just dumb luck. Most of the time I never see an Ire alert in Trav. Stacks happen in small areas.

I always have Act 1 TZ.
I start by TZ Act 5 and kill

Baal and work my way down Act 5 then TZ Act 4, Act 3 ... I go to Act 1 when a 5th level Ire alert shows up. Heralds usually show up soon but not always.

Looking for a better strategy

If the idea is to make the heralds as easy to kill as possible, don't go to act 1. Spawn them in maggot lair. At least while you still have unexplored corners in it.
When a

Herald spawns in maggot lair and ends up as one of them insect

Swarm things (which they do a lot in there), even a T5

Herald literally dies in a single hit. Every time. And even if they end up a beetle or something, the lair tunnels still ensure you never get crowded as only the

Herald or one of his adds can touch you at a time, due to them all just blocking each other.

Yesterday I spawned the third time a

Herald in

Chaos Sanctuary while only popping seals - of course no Sunder Other times I had cleaned whole TZ levels (Tower, Catacombs etc.) and did not even get an ire. In my opinion this whole mechanic is simply nuts and has to be completely reworked...

But I also got "weak" yesterday and did it... Got an offer for a

Renewed Cold Rupture I could not resist (one of perfect on the -TECR) I had decided not to pay more than 5

Jah and buy only one on which all stats are useful for me (e. g. even with a perfect roll on FHR I could not reach the next breakpoint). I would have prefered Life but Mana is fine as well. I also wanted MF instead of EGFM and FRW is also a nice addition because my Sorc does not use Enigma. Here is what I got:

Long time D2 player, first time poster here.

Just needed a place to vent my frustration on this

Herald nonsense.

The

Herald system implemented in RotW feels like it intentionally disrespects the time of the player. If I play for 2 hours just farming Andy, Meph, or Chaos Sanc, the time I spend doing so feels more rewarding (even if I hardly get an item out of it) than Terrorizing an entire act and moving from zone to zone trying to get a

Herald to spawn. It slows the pace of the game down to unbearable levels where I just don't want to play for days because I feel like I've just wasted time.

Thoughts on how to potentially fix this? Blizzard gave us the means to terrorize entire acts so we would spend time going through each and every area to kill champions for a slim chance that a

Herald may spawn.
Instead of spending 5 hours roaming through every single area, Heralds should have a low chance to spawn from any champion Death from any non-terrorized zone in the game.

Let's say that you are farming

Mephisto. On your way down to him, you may kill a pack or two of champions, or even kill the council members before killing Meph. Every champion/boss kill gives you a very very low % chance of getting the "Heralds Ire" message. Once you get the message, you then use one of the WSS to terrorize an act, and immediately the game tells you, "A

Herald is hunting you in ----- terrorized zone". Once you go to that are and kill the

Herald, "A

Herald is hunting you in --------". Level 2

Herald spawns in a different zone, all the way up to a Level 5

Herald. After defeating a level 5

Herald, you no longer find any heralds in your game, and must start a new one for it to start again.

Why would this be effective? People can continue doing their farming methods the way they want to where they won't feel like their time is wasted. If a

Herald message pops up, they use the items that Blizzard has added for terrorizing specifically for this event. Players would be guaranteed a shot at getting to Lvl 5 Heralds if they can defeat them, allowing them a chance at receiving a sunder charm or whatever loot table they possess. Afterwards, they can continue on with farming or playing the game the way they want to with the hopes of getting a

Herald message again in another game.

Do I expect blizzard to do anything about the current

Herald situation? no, but I'd rather toss around some better ideas in the hopes that they realize that their current system is aggravating some of their player base to the point of not even enjoying the game anymore.

Thanks for coming to my ted talk

if you do simple math, you need about 400 heralds * 100 elites * ~10 elites per non-elite = 400k kills to find any charm, which is close to the

Ber drop chance if I'm not mistaken. coincidence? don't think so
every time i tried to target farm the charms, terrorized 1-2 acts and killed a dozen heralds, i felt so exhausted and frustrated that i pledged never to do it again

DeadManLaughing wrote: 7 hours ago

Thoughts on how to potentially fix this? Blizzard gave us the means to terrorize entire acts so we would spend time going through each and every area to kill champions for a slim chance that a

Herald may spawn.
Instead of spending 5 hours roaming through every single area, Heralds should have a low chance to spawn from any champion Death from any non-terrorized zone in the game. [...]

Interesting thoughts. Only one objection: I would prefer to keep the possibility to stack them further to get more T5 Heralds in a game.

In my opinion the bread and butter of this game was that you could farm what you want any time you want (and in many different places). They have to bring this back for Heralds/Sunder Charms and Statues. On the details I am not picky unless the basic mechanic is back

I really like the heralds mechanic. It feels a lot like mapping from POE, which was/is one of its strong points imo.
Also not game swapping every 3 minutes is great too.

The heralds spawn rate is atrocious. It should be at minimum 1 per map area. Monster density is also a problem. Some areas are okay, but

Burial Grounds and

Blood Moor are terrible.

Terrorised acts should also persist across game sessions, until the boss act is killed.
To avoid abuse, simply make heralds spawn only once and not respawn after being killed.

ganseng wrote: 6 hours ago

if you do simple math, you need about 400 heralds * 100 elites * ~10 elites per non-elite = 400k kills to find any charm, which is close to the

Ber drop chance if I'm not mistaken. coincidence? don't think so
every time i tried to target farm the charms, terrorized 1-2 acts and killed a dozen heralds, i felt so exhausted and frustrated that i pledged never to do it again

Assuming Pavke's numbers are to be believed, that math don't quite math I dare say. Or rather, it only maths in a very specific scenario.

If you're actually trying to find sunders, odds are you're running shards and odds are you're alone in your area so it doesn't get stolen.

MF varies. Player count varies. And the actual number of acts you'll shard also varies I suppose.
Using Pavke's numbers for elites and drop rates and averaging out, assuming you can trigger every ire (which you should be able to when sharding), we'd get something along the following:
So P1 at 0 mf and only sharding act 1, you'd need an average of 1090 heralds for a sunder at 4.4 heralds per game. Or one sunder every ~248 games.
At P7+ with egged MF, you're looking at 121 heralds for a sunder at 16.92 per game. Or one sunder every ~7 games.

More realistically, considering all of the multiplayer issues, let's assume us online folk are stuck with P1 for it. And let's assume you're running a "normal" build which typically ends up close to 150 mf at least.
Realistically, I dare say sharding A1+2 or A1-3 is probably the best conservative approach as A4 doesn't offer too much (hence the exclusion above as its own thing) and A5 shards remain fairly rare.
Up to A2 is then something like one sunder every 41 games.
And through to A3 is somewhere around one sunder every 26 games.
Averaged out of course. And give or take a few, depending on rotational TZ's added on.

Either way, the drop odds aren't exactly great to put it mildly.

Though it is interesting that you really don't gain thaaaaaaat much from going public.
The same assumptions applied to P7 give you 33 games instead of 41 or 19 instead of 26.
Sure, that is noticeably better in terms of raw drop odds. But you're also at a 1 in 7 chance of you being the one who got that

Herald dropping the sunder which makes it significantly worse in the end. Not yet counting the organizational effort and odds of it getting stolen.

Imo, most of the "this sucks!" issues could be solved by giving normal mobs something like a 0.2% chance of triggering an ire (exact percentage up for debate of course). Basically, make normal mobs worth killing as well so you're actually clearing the game, rather than being asked to "shard the whole game and go through the whole game but mindlessly

Teleport past and don't interact with 95%+ of the mobs in it". It'd also make it far more viable for non-tele builds.


Disclaimer:
Lacking coffee today so take numbers with a grain of salt.

Schnorki wrote: 4 hours ago

ganseng wrote: 6 hours ago

if you do simple math, you need about 400 heralds * 100 elites * ~10 elites per non-elite = 400k kills to find any charm, which is close to the

Ber drop chance if I'm not mistaken. coincidence? don't think so
every time i tried to target farm the charms, terrorized 1-2 acts and killed a dozen heralds, i felt so exhausted and frustrated that i pledged never to do it again

Assuming Pavke's numbers are to be believed, that math don't quite math I dare say. Or rather, it only maths in a very specific scenario.

If you're actually trying to find sunders, odds are you're running shards and odds are you're alone in your area so it doesn't get stolen.

MF varies. Player count varies. And the actual number of acts you'll shard also varies I suppose.
Using Pavke's numbers for elites and drop rates and averaging out, assuming you can trigger every ire (which you should be able to when sharding), we'd get something along the following:

image.png

So P1 at 0 mf and only sharding act 1, you'd need an average of 1090 heralds for a sunder at 4.4 heralds per game. Or one sunder every ~248 games.
At P7+ with egged MF, you're looking at 121 heralds for a sunder at 16.92 per game. Or one sunder every ~7 games.

More realistically, considering all of the multiplayer issues, let's assume us online folk are stuck with P1 for it. And let's assume you're running a "normal" build which typically ends up close to 150 mf at least.
Realistically, I dare say sharding A1+2 or A1-3 is probably the best conservative approach as A4 doesn't offer too much (hence the exclusion above as its own thing) and A5 shards remain fairly rare.
Up to A2 is then something like one sunder every 41 games.
And through to A3 is somewhere around one sunder every 26 games.
Averaged out of course. And give or take a few, depending on rotational TZ's added on.

Either way, the drop odds aren't exactly great to put it mildly.

Though it is interesting that you really don't gain thaaaaaaat much from going public.
The same assumptions applied to P7 give you 33 games instead of 41 or 19 instead of 26.
Sure, that is noticeably better in terms of raw drop odds. But you're also at a 1 in 7 chance of you being the one who got that

Herald dropping the sunder which makes it significantly worse in the end. Not yet counting the organizational effort and odds of it getting stolen.

Imo, most of the "this sucks!" issues could be solved by giving normal mobs something like a 0.2% chance of triggering an ire (exact percentage up for debate of course). Basically, make normal mobs worth killing as well so you're actually clearing the game, rather than being asked to "shard the whole game and go through the whole game but mindlessly

Teleport past and don't interact with 95%+ of the mobs in it". It'd also make it far more viable for non-tele builds.


Disclaimer:
Lacking coffee today so take numbers with a grain of salt.

hmm thanks for the detailed answer. oversimplified, I understand that the odds are closer to 600-700k, or less than for a

Ber rune. doesn't really change the perception for me, since i pesonally never found a

Ber rune

ganseng wrote: 2 hours ago

Schnorki wrote: 4 hours ago

ganseng wrote: 6 hours ago

if you do simple math, you need about 400 heralds * 100 elites * ~10 elites per non-elite = 400k kills to find any charm, which is close to the

Ber drop chance if I'm not mistaken. coincidence? don't think so
every time i tried to target farm the charms, terrorized 1-2 acts and killed a dozen heralds, i felt so exhausted and frustrated that i pledged never to do it again

Assuming Pavke's numbers are to be believed, that math don't quite math I dare say. Or rather, it only maths in a very specific scenario.

If you're actually trying to find sunders, odds are you're running shards and odds are you're alone in your area so it doesn't get stolen.

MF varies. Player count varies. And the actual number of acts you'll shard also varies I suppose.
Using Pavke's numbers for elites and drop rates and averaging out, assuming you can trigger every ire (which you should be able to when sharding), we'd get something along the following:

image.png

So P1 at 0 mf and only sharding act 1, you'd need an average of 1090 heralds for a sunder at 4.4 heralds per game. Or one sunder every ~248 games.
At P7+ with egged MF, you're looking at 121 heralds for a sunder at 16.92 per game. Or one sunder every ~7 games.

More realistically, considering all of the multiplayer issues, let's assume us online folk are stuck with P1 for it. And let's assume you're running a "normal" build which typically ends up close to 150 mf at least.
Realistically, I dare say sharding A1+2 or A1-3 is probably the best conservative approach as A4 doesn't offer too much (hence the exclusion above as its own thing) and A5 shards remain fairly rare.
Up to A2 is then something like one sunder every 41 games.
And through to A3 is somewhere around one sunder every 26 games.
Averaged out of course. And give or take a few, depending on rotational TZ's added on.

Either way, the drop odds aren't exactly great to put it mildly.

Though it is interesting that you really don't gain thaaaaaaat much from going public.
The same assumptions applied to P7 give you 33 games instead of 41 or 19 instead of 26.
Sure, that is noticeably better in terms of raw drop odds. But you're also at a 1 in 7 chance of you being the one who got that

Herald dropping the sunder which makes it significantly worse in the end. Not yet counting the organizational effort and odds of it getting stolen.

Imo, most of the "this sucks!" issues could be solved by giving normal mobs something like a 0.2% chance of triggering an ire (exact percentage up for debate of course). Basically, make normal mobs worth killing as well so you're actually clearing the game, rather than being asked to "shard the whole game and go through the whole game but mindlessly

Teleport past and don't interact with 95%+ of the mobs in it". It'd also make it far more viable for non-tele builds.


Disclaimer:
Lacking coffee today so take numbers with a grain of salt.

hmm thanks for the detailed answer. oversimplified, I understand that the odds are closer to 600-700k, or less than for a

Ber rune. doesn't really change the perception for me, since i pesonally never found a

Ber rune

Not quite. Even 0 mf, T1, P1 apparently still has a 1 in 1,939 chance to drop one.
At a 2% ire rate, that'd make it 1 sunder in 96,950 elites even if you only ever kill T1 heralds by yourself with 0 mf (i.e. the worst case scenario). So long as you convert your ires at least.

The odds of actually getting the sunder you want, let alone ever rolling the stats you need..now that's a different story entirely.

Blizzard has made the sunder charms obsolete. A cursing Hephasto kills everything. I have no use for sunder charms anymore. The same applies to heralds.

and if we do all five heralds at 150 mf it's closer to 35-40k elites or 400k kills which is consistent with my initial estimate

thx for the 2% hint, I thought it was 1% for triggering ire and 2% for transforming a

Herald

Schnorki wrote: 1 hour ago

ganseng wrote: 2 hours ago

Schnorki wrote: 4 hours ago

Assuming Pavke's numbers are to be believed, that math don't quite math I dare say. Or rather, it only maths in a very specific scenario.

If you're actually trying to find sunders, odds are you're running shards and odds are you're alone in your area so it doesn't get stolen.

MF varies. Player count varies. And the actual number of acts you'll shard also varies I suppose.
Using Pavke's numbers for elites and drop rates and averaging out, assuming you can trigger every ire (which you should be able to when sharding), we'd get something along the following:

image.png

So P1 at 0 mf and only sharding act 1, you'd need an average of 1090 heralds for a sunder at 4.4 heralds per game. Or one sunder every ~248 games.
At P7+ with egged MF, you're looking at 121 heralds for a sunder at 16.92 per game. Or one sunder every ~7 games.

More realistically, considering all of the multiplayer issues, let's assume us online folk are stuck with P1 for it. And let's assume you're running a "normal" build which typically ends up close to 150 mf at least.
Realistically, I dare say sharding A1+2 or A1-3 is probably the best conservative approach as A4 doesn't offer too much (hence the exclusion above as its own thing) and A5 shards remain fairly rare.
Up to A2 is then something like one sunder every 41 games.
And through to A3 is somewhere around one sunder every 26 games.
Averaged out of course. And give or take a few, depending on rotational TZ's added on.

Either way, the drop odds aren't exactly great to put it mildly.

Though it is interesting that you really don't gain thaaaaaaat much from going public.
The same assumptions applied to P7 give you 33 games instead of 41 or 19 instead of 26.
Sure, that is noticeably better in terms of raw drop odds. But you're also at a 1 in 7 chance of you being the one who got that

Herald dropping the sunder which makes it significantly worse in the end. Not yet counting the organizational effort and odds of it getting stolen.

Imo, most of the "this sucks!" issues could be solved by giving normal mobs something like a 0.2% chance of triggering an ire (exact percentage up for debate of course). Basically, make normal mobs worth killing as well so you're actually clearing the game, rather than being asked to "shard the whole game and go through the whole game but mindlessly

Teleport past and don't interact with 95%+ of the mobs in it". It'd also make it far more viable for non-tele builds.


Disclaimer:
Lacking coffee today so take numbers with a grain of salt.

hmm thanks for the detailed answer. oversimplified, I understand that the odds are closer to 600-700k, or less than for a

Ber rune. doesn't really change the perception for me, since i pesonally never found a

Ber rune

Not quite. Even 0 mf, T1, P1 apparently still has a 1 in 1,939 chance to drop one.
At a 2% ire rate, that'd make it 1 sunder in 96,950 elites even if you only ever kill T1 heralds by yourself with 0 mf (i.e. the worst case scenario). So long as you convert your ires at least.

The odds of actually getting the sunder you want, let alone ever rolling the stats you need..now that's a different story entirely.