Dream Lightning Sorc?

That's actually an excellent reminder: more expensive build does not mean more effective, just a different gameplay and expectations.

Building a budget Uber/Dclone pally is very cheap yet super efficient for its rôle (though all budget builds can forever be optimized... at a cost!)

Maf wrote: 7 months ago

Maybe my problem with Dream build is that it was my first more expensive build. And I was expecting HUGE things. So that is why I was so dissapointed. I mean if I compare it with my Fury druid? Ok, Metas were little expensive, but the rest of it is IDK, nothing special, BotD, maybe Forti, cannot remember now. But he is still my safest Uber killer. And he really does not wear anything exceptional.

I understand your disappointment, but from a designers' view Dream is perfectly balanced.

Let me put it this way: What is the greatest power?

The greatest power is killing enemies by doing NOTHING. Having an aura so powerful you don't need to lift a finger is definetely worth the investment of several high runes. And of course, this must be limited to solo play to keep a balance to other builds which have to be played more actively.

Back in the past when Dream has been developed there weren't that many overpowered builds we have today. So you shouldn't compare it to mosaic or the "new" nova.

And you can't compare a Fury druid, too. Dream is a crowd killer setup, Fury is a melee hard hitter, who will never reach those levels of mass destruction. Both have their own advantages and intended use. Smiter paladin is the best uber killer, but he is useless in any other scenario.

Maf wrote: 7 months ago

And another reason might be I cannot play well with some characters. I always hear like Hammerdin is awesome... Man, finishing the game with him was terrible pain in the a__ for me. And he had all the stuff prepared. So yeah, you were very true than it would be boring if everyone used only S tiers. So ok, of course anyone can try Dream sorc, but don´t expect too much I would say.

Yeah, of course, we all have personal preferences. I didn't get used to the hammerdin, too. This is why I like this game so much: There are heavy builds which need a lot of attention, and there are chilled AFK builds like Summoners and easy one-button-builds like nova or fist of the heavens.

Maf wrote: 7 months ago

And another reason might be I cannot play well with some characters. I always hear like Hammerdin is awesome... Man, finishing the game with him was terrible pain in the a__ for me. And he had all the stuff prepared. So yeah, you were very true than it would be boring if everyone used only S tiers. So ok, of course anyone can try Dream sorc, but don´t expect too much I would say.

Yeah, hammerdin is a very good example of very powerful and effective, potentially. But it can be extremely difficult to figure out how to play it, and in some places it utterly sucks.
Also very commonly, builds that rely on items you don't have...

Maf wrote: 7 months ago

TBH had dual Dream Lightning Sorc but kinda meh... First act good for farming, but from like 3rd act too weak... Much better go max FCR

Nova...


Of course, the Nova Sorc is stronger and faster overall. Dream Sorc is kind of a trophy build. But if we would restrict ourselves to S-Tier builds only, we could end all conversation about different builds, and play Mosaic, Java and Nova forever.

What are you actually talking about? Did you see our Chaos Runs? The Nova is going full steam hardly picking up anything it's a 3.5 min run.
I spend 15 seconds in River of Flame and get to Diablo in 2 mins exactly so this is a 1:39 Full Clear not rushing.

Maf wrote: 7 months ago

she has a tad more magic find, because she doesn't need to hit that 105 FCR breakpoint. And it's a more laid-back gameplay. Nova has to be played aggressively, Dream Sorc is more on the defensive side. It's a matter of taste in the end.

Again the defensive style is applied to both Nova and Dream. Nova pulses and waits and avoids getting hit. Dream Static Fields and waits near targets for maximum effect and avoids getting hit unnecessarily. I wouldn't really call it defensive overall either as no sorcs want to get hit.

I have 135 FCR on Swap so this is ultra quick when you need to get to Throne etc. She's also geared for over 200% MF at the same time.

D369 wrote: 7 months ago

Maf wrote: 7 months ago

TBH had dual Dream Lightning Sorc but kinda meh... First act good for farming, but from like 3rd act too weak... Much better go max FCR

Nova...


Of course, the Nova Sorc is stronger and faster overall. Dream Sorc is kind of a trophy build. But if we would restrict ourselves to S-Tier builds only, we could end all conversation about different builds, and play Mosaic, Java and Nova forever.

What are you actually talking about? Did you see our Chaos Runs? The Nova is going full steam hardly picking up anything it's a 3.5 min run.
I spend 15 seconds in River of Flame and get to Diablo in 2 mins exactly so this is a 1:39 Full Clear not rushing.

Maf wrote: 7 months ago

she has a tad more magic find, because she doesn't need to hit that 105 FCR breakpoint. And it's a more laid-back gameplay. Nova has to be played aggressively, Dream Sorc is more on the defensive side. It's a matter of taste in the end.

Again the defensive style is applied to both Nova and Dream. Nova pulses and waits and avoids getting hit. Dream Static Fields and waits near targets for maximum effect and avoids getting hit unnecessarily. I wouldn't really call it defensive overall either as no sorcs want to get hit.

I have 135 FCR on Swap so this is ultra quick when you need to get to Throne etc. She's also geared for over 200% MF at the same time.

This run was not "full steam". If I really turn up, I clear the whole CS in 1 minute. Dream sorc can't beat that, because her aura damage is limited to the 2 second pulses. So you do an average of 2k per 2 seconds plus 10k single target damage/second and a single attack melee of ~25k with a maximum of 10 frame attack speed. Nova sorc does 3-4k area of effect damage per 8 frames! This is ~20k damage per 2 seconds.

Dream Sorc has -40% resistance when geared with Crescent Moon Runeword and a single facetted armor. Nova Sorc has around -160% enemy resistance (Infinity, Conviction, Griffon's Eye, Facets), doubling damage against anything non-immune, so we are at 40K average AoE damage per 2 seconds.

Fully geared Nova Sorc has natural 105 FCR, as Dream Sorc has to rely on swap weapons to reach high FCR.

Both have maxed Static Field, so this is an even. Oh no, it's not, because -enemy lightning resist is taken into account here, too.

You really want to say a Dream is stronger than Nova?

LoL.

Nova Sorc can easily solo P8 Chaos in a few minutes. Dream Sorc is cool for solo runs as I said. But Nova is way stronger overall and not as squishy, because she has an Insight merc filling up her Energy Shield as the Dream Sorc has to rely on Warmth... this is 800% (1 pt Warmth included) mana regeneration versus ~400%.

Nova Sorc is one of the top 3 builds in the game!!!

Please, please, please stop talking nonsense.

DasNarf wrote: 7 months ago

This run was not "full steam". If I really turn up, I clear the whole CS in 1 minute. Dream sorc can't beat that, because her aura damage is limited to the 2 second pulses. So you do an average of 2k per 2 seconds plus 10k single target damage/second and a single attack melee of ~25k with a maximum of 10 frame attack speed.

Nova sorc does 3-4k area of effect damage per 8 frames! This is ~20k damage per 2 seconds.

Dream Sorc has -40% resistance when geared with Crescent Moon Runeword and a single facetted armor.

Nova Sorc has around -160% enemy resistance (Infinity,

Conviction,

Griffon's Eye, Facets), doubling damage against anything non-immune, so we are at 40K average AoE damage per 2 seconds.

Fully geared

Nova Sorc has natural 105 FCR, as Dream Sorc has to rely on swap weapons to reach high FCR.

Both have maxed

Static Field, so this is an even. Oh no, it's not, because -enemy lightning resist is taken into account here, too.

You really want to say a Dream is stronger than

Nova?

LoL.

Nova Sorc can easily solo P8 Chaos in a few minutes. Dream Sorc is cool for solo runs as I said. But

Nova is way stronger overall and not as squishy, because she has an Insight merc filling up her

Energy Shield as the Dream Sorc has to rely on

Warmth... this is 800% (1 pt

Warmth included) mana regeneration versus ~400%.

Nova Sorc is one of the top 3 builds in the game!!!

Please, please, please stop talking nonsense.

I don't imply a superior build overall, we know the S-Tier for a long time and Dream is not in this tier. Going on clear speed of these two runs I see one is far longer than the other.

Where is my nonsense spoken here?

DasNarf wrote: 7 months ago

Dream Sorc has to rely on

Warmth... this is 800% (1 pt

Warmth included) mana regeneration versus ~400%.

None of this actually matters. I never have Mana Issues, I don't even notice it's level or notice it's low if I'm taking damage through

Energy Shield. It works flawlessly and how I get it isn't relevant I don't believe.

DasNarf wrote: 7 months ago

Both have maxed

Static Field, so this is an even. Oh no, it's not, because -enemy lightning resist is taken into account here, too.

The problem with

Nova as we all see in your Run is that is has a tiny radius and you have to jump to each pack and pulse individually. Dream casts further out and also Thunderstorm pulses on the fringes too. It's quite useful and makes for a breezy simple run where I don't need 600 FCR to speed up a full clear.

DasNarf wrote: 7 months ago

Dream Sorc has -40% resistance when geared with Crescent Moon Runeword and a single facetted armor

My favorite part here is you purposefully didn't add in my Merc

Conviction here at +85% but did to your own?. I don't think this all really matters when it can do full 1.5 minute relaxed clears of Chaos and Kill Diablo faster than what I saw from your video?. Currently at -135% Res.

DasNarf wrote: 7 months ago

Nova Sorc can easily solo P8 Chaos in a few minutes.

Not every build needs to do that. Dream has it's lane and in its lane it will stay.. You max this build out in around 90 points besides

Energy Shield or your Cold Armor of choice.

You previously went on and on about "Lazy Gameplay" and "What is true power?" going on about pulses and yet here you are talking down a completely lazy build in the Dream Sorc. I feel the build should be appreciated for what it is, and if it does beat another build in one area so be it - that is the joy of this game - soo many ways to have fun and protect Sanctuary!

DasNarf wrote: 7 months ago

So you do an average of 2k per 2 seconds plus 10k single target damage/second and a single attack melee of ~25k with a maximum of 10 frame attack speed

My

Holy Shock Pulses are 1-8400. Thunderstorm is 11K and pulse 1x per second. My Melee is around 50K and Swing speed is slow as you saw in the video, but between the pulses it doesn't need to be maxed each swing as it just takes one high hit to drop Bosses - even though I'd really love high attack speed and AR! When

Baal arrived I killed him in less than 3 seconds, which is faster than the

Nova kill I observed in your video, so it has power.

You two, last warning before post deletions. Stay courteous and correct, re-read what others have said before answering wrongly.

You have been warned - and remember Silence is often a valid answer.

"You can tell a man he is wrong by a look or an intonation or a gesture just as eloquently as you can in words— and if you tell him he is wrong, do you make him want to agree with you? Never! For you have struck a direct blow at his intelligence, his judgment, his Pride, his self-respect. That will make him want to strike back. But it will never make him want to change his mind. You may then hurl at him all the logic of a Plato or an Immanuel Kant, but you will not alter his opinion, for you have hurt his feelings."

-Ben Franklin

Necrarch wrote: 7 months ago

You two, last warning before post deletions. Stay courteous and correct, re-read what others have said before answering wrongly.

You have been warned - and remember Silence is often a valid answer.

Thanks, appreciate the step-in. Have tidied up my comments.

Knappogue wrote: 7 months ago

"You can tell a man he is wrong by a look or an intonation or a gesture just as eloquently as you can in words— and if you tell him he is wrong, do you make him want to agree with you? Never! For you have struck a direct blow at his intelligence, his judgment, his Pride, his self-respect. That will make him want to strike back. But it will never make him want to change his mind. You may then hurl at him all the logic of a Plato or an Immanuel Kant, but you will not alter his opinion, for you have hurt his feelings."

-Ben Franklin

Beautiful.. A real bastion of knowledge you are, and asset to this community. Cheers!