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Description

Description by fredkid
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Can be used to make Runewords:

7
OP
Short answer πŸ˜‰πŸ˜‰: the main target of
Lightning Fury
is taking more damage πŸ‘, but the other 30+ monster hit by the
Bolts
are taking less damage πŸ˜“

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User avatar

mhlg 1016

Americas PC
fredkid wrote: 3 weeks ago
Short answer πŸ˜‰πŸ˜‰: the main target of
Lightning Fury
is taking more damage πŸ‘, but the other 30+ monster hit by the
Bolts
are taking less damage πŸ˜“
I see that a little differently. The point of
Lightning Fury
is mob control which works especially well when pushing forward. For instance, in TZ
Halls of Pain
it's not uncommon to get mobbed by more than one group of Night Lords counting a dozen or more at the same time that can quickly take down a smiter paly. You can choose to take them down by spamming them with
Lightning Fury
, which in my view is an unnecessary reduction of your stack when
Charged Strike
has proven more effective in close quarters. When you run Chaos you don't take down Diablo with
Lightning Fury
, you use
Charged Strike
. The initial throw in
Lightning Fury
includes both physical and lightning damage while the 36
Bolts
that split off are all lightning. With
Pierce
the physical damage of the initial throw will continue damaging everything along its path. With
Charged Strike
you're dealing both lightning and physical damage with each strike and both matter because damage is damage, and even more so if you don't have a Phoenix shield because you need physical for mana and LL. As someone earlier mentioned
Lightning Strike
is better than
Lightning Fury
when running cows or any large disorganized group, but I find it gives slower forward movement than a Fury-
Charged Strike
combo in most areas including Chaos and Worldstone Keep. The only purpose of upping an
Eth
Titan's is to increase its physical damage.

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7
OP
The point is that the increase in physical damage (597-1138.28 | 867.64 avg) is not enough to compensate the lightning damage decrease...

Single bolt damage:
Charged Strike
: 5906.5 avg -> 5199.5 avg, so reduced by 707 (~80% of the physical increase on each bolt... more total damage only if just 1 bolt hit)
Lightning Fury
: 2428.5 avg -> 2150.5 avg, so reduced by 278 (~32% of the the physical increase on each bolt... more total damage only if up to 3 bolt hit on each explosion)
Lightning Strike
: 4760 avg -> 4143.5 avg, so reduced by 616.5 (~71% of the physical increase on each bolt...more total damage only if just 1 bolt hit)

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User avatar

TheDoo 326

Europe PC
The only problem with Phoenix on Javazon is that I don't see it's purpose. I've been using Insight Merc and mana regen is not a problem and about life can't remember when was the last time I used pots in need (usually just use full rejuv when another full rejuv drops and I have like 5-10% less hp). I'd personally rather have more res and total mana on shield than having annoyance of pre-buffing with Treachery and whatnot.
I can see it being used on other builds as a main thing, yes, but on Javazon it's definitely far from needed (just waste of runes).

Ma neeeeeeema veeeeeeeze! xd

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TheDoo wrote: 3 weeks ago
The only problem with Phoenix on Javazon is that I don't see it's purpose. I've been using Insight Merc and mana regen is not a problem and about life can't remember when was the last time I used pots in need (usually just use full rejuv when another full rejuv drops and I have like 5-10% less hp). I'd personally rather have more res and total mana on shield than having annoyance of pre-buffing with Treachery and whatnot.
I can see it being used on other builds as a main thing, yes, but on Javazon it's definitely far from needed (just waste of runes).
I use Phoenix because my merc uses Infinity, not Insight ;-)

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7
OP
TheDoo wrote: 3 weeks ago
The only problem with Phoenix on Javazon is that I don't see it's purpose. I've been using Insight Merc and mana regen is not a problem and about life can't remember when was the last time I used pots in need (usually just use full rejuv when another full rejuv drops and I have like 5-10% less hp). I'd personally rather have more res and total mana on shield than having annoyance of pre-buffing with Treachery and whatnot.
I can see it being used on other builds as a main thing, yes, but on Javazon it's definitely far from needed (just waste of runes).
I use Infinity on merc, so sometimes needed mana potions with Spirit shield (even with
Silkweave
).
and I don't need to pre-buff Treachery with Phoenix (but had to replace a skiller charm ...)

Beside the lower damage (-3 skill), for now I'm sticking with the smooth play of the Phoenix setup.

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User avatar

mhlg 1016

Americas PC
fredkid wrote: 3 weeks ago
The point is that the increase in physical damage (597-1138.28 | 867.64 avg) is not enough to compensate the lightning damage decrease...

Single bolt damage:
Charged Strike
: 5906.5 avg -> 5199.5 avg, so reduced by 707 (~80% of the physical increase on each bolt... more total damage only if just 1 bolt hit)
Lightning Fury
: 2428.5 avg -> 2150.5 avg, so reduced by 278 (~32% of the the physical increase on each bolt... more total damage only if up to 3 bolt hit on each explosion)
Lightning Strike
: 4760 avg -> 4143.5 avg, so reduced by 616.5 (~71% of the physical increase on each bolt...more total damage only if just 1 bolt hit)
I’ve never said there isn’t a difference in damage when you replace a Spirit with Phoenix, but what I am saying is the realized difference isn’t that significant.
Charged Strike
is a melee attack, a blend of lightning and physical per strike, and all hits are 1 hit. It does give off an electrical field that will kill some things in its proximity, but nothing you can rely on. Using your numbers the difference in
Charged Strike
damage is about 12%,
Lightning Fury
11.5%, and
Lightning Strike
13%. So the drop in damage with a Phoenix is somewhere around 12.16%, but what you gain in survivability far outweighs what you lose in damage. I have an
Eth
upped Titan's with Phoenix on Weapons 1, and an
Eth
upped Titan's with a Spirit on swap. So I always have both.

When I run Chaos or Worldstone Keep, I can do it much faster using a Phoenix because it makes the build virtually indestructible and it requires little use of potions. I did a quick video to demonstrate the two shields while clearing
Baal
's waves and taking down
Baal
. In the run I never used a single potion with the Phoenix but used 5 with the Spirit. The first run is with a Phoenix and the second with a Spirit.

Edit: How are you losing +3 skills when a Spirit only gives 2?


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7
OP
mhlg wrote: 2 weeks ago
Charged Strike
is a melee attack, a blend of lightning and physical per strike, and all hits are 1 hit. It does give off an electrical field that will kill some things in its proximity, but nothing you can rely on.
Charged Strike
Bolts
are way far from "nothing you can rely on" πŸ˜›
Beside being a melee attack most damage comes from the
Bolts
.
Charged Strike
may shotgun, like
Charged Bolt
: many
Bolts
can hit the same target (all of them in the correct angle against large monster) and is your boss/single target skill.
Against boss you can do something like 150 - 200K per second (kill Diablo in with few swings)
With my Javazon, while the "stab" deal ~ 7393.5 avg , the stab release 33
Bolts
of 5199.5 avg each where all can hit the main target and is very common to half of then hit the target (situation where the stab damage is like 8% of the full damage)

But even with reduced damage still can farm same places with no problem, and prefer the "quality of life increase" from Phoenix.

Time Zone: GMT-3
Online: workdays (18-21), weekends (09-21)
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7
User avatar

mhlg 1016

Americas PC
fredkid wrote: 2 weeks ago
mhlg wrote: 2 weeks ago
Charged Strike
is a melee attack, a blend of lightning and physical per strike, and all hits are 1 hit. It does give off an electrical field that will kill some things in its proximity, but nothing you can rely on.
Charged Strike
Bolts
are way far from "nothing you can rely on" πŸ˜›
Beside being a melee attack most damage comes from the
Bolts
.
Charged Strike
may shotgun, like
Charged Bolt
: many
Bolts
can hit the same target (all of them in the correct angle against large monster) and is your boss/single target skill.
Against boss you can do something like 150 - 200K per second (kill Diablo in with few swings)
With my Javazon, while the "stab" deal ~ 7393.5 avg , the stab release 33
Bolts
of 5199.5 avg each where all can hit the main target and is very common to half of then hit the target (situation where the stab damage is like 8% of the full damage)

But even with reduced damage still can farm same places with no problem, and prefer the "quality of life increase" from Phoenix.
Beside being a melee attack most damage comes from the
Bolts
.
Each hit from a
Charge
Strike Melee attack includes both lightning and Physical. The
Bolts
that emanate from the attack can take down an enemy but it misses as much as it hits. Notice that lightning damage is an average between 1 and some larger number say 7000, so your odds of hitting with a damage of 1 is as good as hitting with a damage of 7000. A subtle benefit of physical damage is that it has a much more limited range between minimum and maximum damage say 320-3000, meaning it will never do less than 320 damage. So if we take the lightning damage of 1-7000, divide it by 2 for its mean, we get 3500 which means nearly half of its damage will fall within the physical damage range. I think we're both essentially reasoning more or less the same point with only our interpretations being different. Question: How does using the Phoenix cost you +3 skill points?

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7
OP
mhlg wrote: 2 weeks ago
Question: How does using the Phoenix cost you +3 skill points?
-2 from the Spirit
-1 from a skiller charm (replace for a 15@ to keep fr/cr/lr at max 85/74/80 with Phoenix)

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User avatar

mhlg 1016

Americas PC
fredkid wrote: 2 weeks ago
mhlg wrote: 2 weeks ago
Question: How does using the Phoenix cost you +3 skill points?
-2 from the Spirit
-1 from a skiller charm (replace for a 15@ to keep fr/cr/lr at max 85/74/80 with Phoenix)
I think with the Phoenix you'll find that max resistance isn't all that important. I was playing around with an Enigma and Cat's Eye yesterday which dropped all resistances to around 50 or less and I ran Chaos with no issue whatsoever. The build with a Phoenix is nearly unkillable. :D

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