privacy and trade sniping

Can't say I agree with OP either. Leave the PM as it is. If the community doesn't like it, then the community can decide to not deal with people who make a habit of trading via PMs.

Most of my dealing have been good and honorable. I've traded via PM before, but ONLY when there were no other offers. I've also usually taken the first offer in a thread, even if later a second higher offer comes out. I said usually. Once accepted, I stick with the offer and buyer even if it takes a few days to link up due to being on different sides of the world. Most people I've dealt with have done the same, and I have never joined a game to do a final trade and had someone offer an item with different stats (low def armor) or tried at the last minute to renegotiate for a better deal.

All that to say, I think the outlook that "people with high trust and long membership time are not honorable" and are flipper and grifters is not only false, but not productive. With that kind of perspective, any missed trade is due to cheating, and any counteroffer is trying to scam. If there is that fundamental distrust to the system, I don't see how one can productively trade here.

Voyager wrote: 2 years ago

Ironembraced wrote: 2 years ago

Voyager wrote: 2 years ago

what positives does it have?

This isn't just a trade site, this is a growing community of players.

Communication is paramount to a healthy community.

This is mainly trading site and removing PM doesn't remove the ability to communicate

Speak for yourself. I don’t play anymore but I still like reading and posting here.

Seems like voyager has been burnt and is feeling sooky about it.

I have PM'd offers and have others PM'd me theirs. Some people prefer PMs as they are unsure of prices and is embarrassed to post publicly (yes, true story).

If I am buying an item and the seller tells me to increase my offer because there's a hidden offer, it is UP TO ME to trust or call their bluff. Just like when I'm privately negotiating for a house and the sales agent tells me there's another buyer who is placing a higher bid, its up to me to UP my offer or walk away.

what ERKs me is ...when buyers say they're going to sell at a certain time but keeps extending to get the highest bid. Can they do that? Of course! Will I trust them and buy from them again? No.

I might perhaps be considered a "trader tycoon" by trade volume (more or less 200 in the last months).
So let me share my experience.
Are all people honorable players/traders you'd like to interact with? Yeah, in your dreams. I found some good guys i kept in touch with, to chat and exchange stuff, but many are just there to get what they can from you and then just send you to get bent when they got they item at the price they think is advantageous for em. Do any people at least have decent standard social interaction when you chat for trading? Again, Dream about it. Greeting and saying good bye, which i don't think can be regarded as politeness but just as being some sort of human, is as frequent as dropping a

Ko rune, let alone have a simple light chat on a videogame that should be a common Passion in between exchanging runes and items.
Now, thanks to trading and some luck in drop i can regularily run ubers, because that's my ultimate goal in trading, having runes to buy keys to play, because PLAYING IS FUN AND TRADING IS NOT. Trading is so not fun fun that yesterday i decided to take a break from it, i deleted all my WTS becaus yes, trading wore me off. I am so sick of these kind of interactions that, as i said, i really need a break.
So i see the OP point on the people you meet and trade with.
Said that, what's the problem of this site? It works very fine, very user friendly, easy to use and nice looking (thanks to the REALLY good people working and mantaining it), the problem is not the platform, the problem is the people taking unfair advantage from it, scamming as many newcomers as they can (have a look at the WTB and try not to feel ashamed by the crazy request for rare items in exchange of practically nothing).

Voyager wrote: 2 years ago

make stash visible to account owner even when hide stash option is On

So like, still visible to you but hidden to everyone else? Possible to do, yes, but why would you want this? The whole point of this option in the first place was so that non-trading members here wouldn't have the big wide stash taking up space on their profile. There are lots of people here who don't actually trade here - they might use other sites for trading, and use this place for the db or forums for example.

Your stash is an important part of your trading profile that lets people know what else you have on offer or need. I've heard loads of stories of that happening - it's almost natural because that's how it used to work in D2 legacy (put all your gear into the trade window so people could browse it and have a look if no firm offer was there).

I'm open to discussing this more, just curious as to why it is a desired feature and how many other people would use it. I don't usually spend my time coding things to satisfy one individual (it has to benefit many for it to be worthwhile in the busy development schedule I have).

Voyager wrote: 2 years ago

add an option to hide post history

Same as before - would be cool to see an explanation for why this might be useful for people and what the use cases are.

Voyager wrote: 2 years ago

and please remove private messaging to make trade sniping harder

I know it's frustrating getting out-competed by people sending in PMs to the listing owner, I get it.

But this is like trying to push back the sea - market competition is inevitable, and if this kind of stuff doesn't take place in PMs it would take place elsewhere.

For example let's say all the trading sites took away their private messaging systems (Traderie, Jsp and here) - people would just move that private messaging to battle.net private messages.

Or they'd start to use the trade listings more often (and get squelched - a feature that this site has because I listened to my users concerns and built it to stop in-listing 'sniping' and 'jacking').

People will always find a way to try and gain a competitive and underhanded advantage over each other - creators like me can't do anything about that, it's just the way things go.

No matter how many squelch features I build, you're going to find people out-competing you.


Edit: And just for the record, I know a lot of people come here just to trade, but this place really isn't just a trading site. It's a relational game database and forum community too. It was these things long before trading came about.

Voyager wrote: 2 years ago

...
it's better to post it on the trade directly
the trade poster gets a free bump
and everyone else gets more detail information about the trade

I'm completely with the OP here. Also this doesnt sound rude or anything.

But I wouldn't touch the PM feature for this though.

Just to be fair and balance this out a little...

Gunar wrote: 2 years ago

Voyager wrote: 2 years ago

...
it's better to post it on the trade directly
the trade poster gets a free bump
and everyone else gets more detail information about the trade

I'm completely with the OP here. Also this doesnt sound rude or anything.

But I wouldn't touch the PM feature for this though.

Just to be fair and balance this out a little...

I just had a 5 pm exchange with a seller about when we meet up to do the trade etc. if there was no pm system, i would have been post spamming the thread about useless talk while bumping the thread.

Think about it, if everyone is doing what i did, most certainly will due to the fact that we all have diffferent schedule, then everyone’s trade thread will be attempting to be bump’d to fist, who knows, this even might cause some issues for the database since alot of requests will happen at once…
So to reiterate my stance, removing pm is bad and no good will come out of this

Steccothal wrote: 2 years ago

... Do any people at least have decent standard social interaction when you chat for trading? Again, Dream about it. Greeting and saying good bye, which i don't think can be regarded as politeness but just as being some sort of human, is as frequent as dropping a

Ko rune, let alone have a simple light chat on a videogame that should be a common Passion in between exchanging runes and items. ...

I like your post and agree on the trading-is-anything-but-fun-part, but my milage has varied a little...
Maybe this is you beeing a trading tycoon, which involves moving ridiculously amounts of Wealth I guess, in contrast to "Offer

Bloodfist LF

Lum?".
In my experience, people of the latter category and well beyond that, are outstandingly kind and you can chat with them as long as you want, while the

Ber+-traders are mostly more like "hi" and "tft". But at least so.
Sadly I tend to not care about Lums and Bloodfists anymore, so my experience is also noticeably changing.

d2rppa69 wrote: 2 years ago

Gunar wrote: 2 years ago

...
But I wouldn't touch the PM feature for this though.
...

... removing pm is bad and no good will come out of this

Did you even read what I wrote? ... Hey I'm joking
But yeah, I would NOT remove the PM feature for exact the reason you are describing, despite the OP having a valid point.

Gunar wrote: 2 years ago

Steccothal wrote: 2 years ago

... Do any people at least have decent standard social interaction when you chat for trading? Again, Dream about it. Greeting and saying good bye, which i don't think can be regarded as politeness but just as being some sort of human, is as frequent as dropping a

Ko rune, let alone have a simple light chat on a videogame that should be a common Passion in between exchanging runes and items. ...

I like your post and agree on the trading-is-anything-but-fun-part, but my milage has varied a little...
Maybe this is you beeing a trading tycoon, which involves moving ridiculously amounts of Wealth I guess, in contrast to "Offer

Bloodfist LF

Lum?".
In my experience, people of the latter category and well beyond that, are outstandingly kind and you can chat with them as long as you want, while the

Ber+-traders are mostly more like "hi" and "tft". But at least so.
Sadly I tend to not care about Lums and Bloodfists anymore, so my experience is also noticeably changing.

just to be clear, i might perhaps be considered a trading tycoon by volume of trades, surely not for the Wealth i moved. My highest trade i think have been a couple of sorc torch, which i personally ripped from uber diablo's bottom with my axes, but most of my trades have been "4 os

Flail for 10 pgems" kind, so no really pro trader with bigh Wealth here. since i started doing ubers i almost only sold torches, but again, mostly have been necro 10/18 torch for

Mal (assa torches really can t get sold for anything).
I found nice guys trading flails for pgems but you re right, no one among those who bought anything for more than an

Ist, they are more like not saying anything or just stfuing you if you try to ask some really deep questions like "hey how's it going?". But my worst experiences have been with those cheap mf'ers (and i mean of course magic finders) putting up wtbs with no price, then you offer the item they look for, add you and just come on bnet saying i give you 1 pgem for that, and while you try to object that, well, a pgem is not even worth going through mules to find the item, they start insulting you that you ve no idea of item values and that they can easily get the item by themselves (which you can say about anything in game, from a

Quilted Armor to a

Zod), then send you to tuck yourself in and delete you on bnet, not giving you the chance to say "ok, maybe next time we'll find a deal". Don't make me say names, just have a look at wtbs and you'll easily spot them. Basically these guys only trade/rip off newcomers.
So that's mostly what made me stop looking for WTB and in the end wore me off with trading.

Coming to think about it, you‘re spot on with trade

Mal and you‘ll meet some nice people playing d2, and trade a

Gul and you‘re doing business.

Start ignoring WTBs, was the first thing I did here. Found it to be pointless to annoying. Wouldn‘t miss that feature.

My experience mirrors the general consensus. Vast majority of trades for me have been an overall friendly experience. It's definitely frustrating to lose a trade when you think it's a done deal, but I don't think this is reason enough to change how the site operates and eliminate features that we use and enjoy (as others have pointed out). I also agree that this isn't simply a trading site, it's a community. Trading is a core function of the site, but it serves a wider range of purposes, encouraging discussion and conversations about a game we love.

Droid wrote: 2 years ago

Edit: What is a Trade Tycoon btw?? You mean the people here like me (sales: 35), d2rppa69 (sales: 28), worstd2playerever (sales: 17)? These are ALL-TIME counts. Not really big traders here you want to show, right? Ok theres two others with 91 and 59 sales which is a bit more but still not that much considering they are using this site for more than 3 months (1 trade per day...) now. So you're just making wild accusations and overly generalise things to support your statements which is just childish, sorry.

That last part actually makes a lot of sense when you think about it. The bad apples are going to be much less likely to read/comment here. Both because they are busy out scamming, and because why would they want to draw attention to themselves? If they post on here and someone they have scammed calls them out, it could foil future scams. better just to lurk and go unnoticed. The people commenting in the forums are more likely to be the people who just genuinely enjoy the game and like discussing it with others who also enjoy it.

I've lost so many trades due to snipers, but that's just the nature of the market and mostly the seller's fault for being naive. Best bet is to educate sellers when it happens and let them know they could've gotten A LOT more if they let a bid war play out in a public forum. Common sense ain't so common for a lot of these traders! Removing PM system isn't the solution here IMO.

Seamus McNugget wrote: 2 years ago

Droid wrote: 2 years ago

Edit: What is a Trade Tycoon btw?? You mean the people here like me (sales: 35), d2rppa69 (sales: 28), worstd2playerever (sales: 17)? These are ALL-TIME counts. Not really big traders here you want to show, right? Ok theres two others with 91 and 59 sales which is a bit more but still not that much considering they are using this site for more than 3 months (1 trade per day...) now. So you're just making wild accusations and overly generalise things to support your statements which is just childish, sorry.

That last part actually makes a lot of sense when you think about it. The bad apples are going to be much less likely to read/comment here. Both because they are busy out scamming, and because why would they want to draw attention to themselves? If they post on here and someone they have scammed calls them out, it could foil future scams. better just to lurk and go unnoticed. The people commenting in the forums are more likely to be the people who just genuinely enjoy the game and like discussing it with others who also enjoy it.

I just want to make it clear that trading and getting the best deal isnt a scam, if someone sell me a

Lo and i offer an

Ist and the seller agrees, it wouldnt be a scammed. U can say they are mis-informed in the market. If the there is an agreement between seller and buyer, regardless what the amount is, i dont consider that is a scam…

Unless u meant by scamming = someone who literally there to deceive and scam the item off another : ei - trade window swapping, not paying on the agreed amount, etc

d2rppa69 wrote: 2 years ago

... If the there is an agreement between seller and buyer, regardless what the amount is, i dont consider that is a scam…

There might be a broader definition for "scam", which involves exactly that.

I know, it's just a game and all, and when someone "misinformed" is in desparate need of a

Shako and has a spare

Jah and is happy with the trade, than so be it, I get that.

But if you carry this over into a real world - real money - example, with someone in need of food or something, well, calling him misinformed in the market would sound a bit cynical to me.

d2rppa69 wrote: 2 years ago

Seamus McNugget wrote: 2 years ago

Droid wrote: 2 years ago

Edit: What is a Trade Tycoon btw?? You mean the people here like me (sales: 35), d2rppa69 (sales: 28), worstd2playerever (sales: 17)? These are ALL-TIME counts. Not really big traders here you want to show, right? Ok theres two others with 91 and 59 sales which is a bit more but still not that much considering they are using this site for more than 3 months (1 trade per day...) now. So you're just making wild accusations and overly generalise things to support your statements which is just childish, sorry.

That last part actually makes a lot of sense when you think about it. The bad apples are going to be much less likely to read/comment here. Both because they are busy out scamming, and because why would they want to draw attention to themselves? If they post on here and someone they have scammed calls them out, it could foil future scams. better just to lurk and go unnoticed. The people commenting in the forums are more likely to be the people who just genuinely enjoy the game and like discussing it with others who also enjoy it.

I just want to make it clear that trading and getting the best deal isnt a scam, if someone sell me a

Lo and i offer an

Ist and the seller agrees, it wouldnt be a scammed. U can say they are mis-informed in the market. If the there is an agreement between seller and buyer, regardless what the amount is, i dont consider that is a scam…

Unless u meant by scamming = someone who literally there to deceive and scam the item off another : ei - trade window swapping, not paying on the agreed amount, etc

When i am saying scammers, i am talking about both straightforward deception (trade window swapping, etc) and predatory behavior. For example the

Lo for an

Ist you described would not necessarily be bad. but someone who intentionally seeks out people that don't seem to know very much for the expressed purpose of trying to get them to sell items/runes for much less than they are worth would be scamming. there is a certain amount of mens rea at play that would be incredibly difficult to prove/regulate. My point was just that the people knowingly and purposefully seeking to take advantage of the ignorance of others is wrong, and those doing wrong generally try to avoid detection by posting on forums. However, you are correct in that shopping around and haggling for a good deal is not inherently a scam. they might need an

Ist for something specific and be willing to pay a

Lo, nothing wrong with that. That is the free market at work

Got my eBotD zerker through pm, want messaging to stay as is, just my 2 cents.

I'll just add from my experience as primarily a standard HC seller.

I find most buyers use the forum but there have been few that reach out directly via battle.net - so even if you remove PM -- battle.net whispers will always be there to bypass them if they want to.

I try to be fair and always respond to the first person that reached out to me first regardless of how they initiated the conversation.

The only reason I prefer they use the forum trade post is so I can easily link them as the buyer and give them +1 trust easily.

Since I see Teebling's watching, I'll say I disagree with OP's suggestions as well. When people PM me to discuss trades, I just reply that I don't transact via PM and to put the offer in the trade thread. But that's how I operate. Trades don't always go my way. It is a game, though, probably advisable to keep that in mind.