Defense went down after upgrading Unique from exceptional to elite..???

Upgraded an exceptional Vampire Gaze Grim Helm to an elite Bone Visage and my defense stats went from 252 to 208. Nothing else changed that shouldn't have changed: strength and level required -both increased, as you would expect, but the defense dropped to 208. Does anyone have an explanation that might help me cope with this, very semi, tragic event? I did zero work to get that item so I'm not heartbroken, but had I poured months into it...well I would be upset. Hover over > Vampire Gaze < to see what it looked like before.

i believe it rerolls the base defense stat. vamp gaze is locked to always have the same defense (max roll for a Grim Helm +100%, so 126x2), while there's significant overlap for the Bone Visage.

i think you rolled a low def visage, which range from like 100-157.

mcfondle wrote: 4 years ago

i believe it rerolls the base defense stat. vamp gaze is locked to always have the same defense (max roll for a Grim Helm +100%, so 126x2), while there's significant overlap for the Bone Visage.

i think you rolled a low def visage, which range from like 100-157.

I've upgraded many uniques and rares and that is a first for me. Appreciate your input, but the fact that it can drop after spending runes and pgems is troubling. If it had to happen I'm glad it was on this. Cheers! (will be looking at the upgrade item limitations from now on to see what my outcomes may be)

Squishydevil666 wrote: 4 years ago

mcfondle wrote: 4 years ago

i believe it rerolls the base defense stat. vamp gaze is locked to always have the same defense (max roll for a Grim Helm +100%, so 126x2), while there's significant overlap for the Bone Visage.

i think you rolled a low def visage, which range from like 100-157.

I've upgraded many uniques and rares and that is a first for me. Appreciate your input, but the fact that it can drop after spending runes and pgems is troubling. If it had to happen I'm glad it was on this. Cheers! (will be looking at the upgrade item limitations from now on to see what my outcomes may be)

Always look at the bases before you upgrade to make sure it is worth it. You had a high base def Grim Helm and rolled a low Bone Visage with 104 def. I've rolled an Arreat's Face on my barb and only added like 10 def while putting the str through the roof, ive seen better non upped arreats than the one im using :/.... its one of the reason people will pay a premium for some upped items that roll high def.

Azer-Archon wrote: 4 years ago

Squishydevil666 wrote: 4 years ago

mcfondle wrote: 4 years ago

i believe it rerolls the base defense stat. vamp gaze is locked to always have the same defense (max roll for a Grim Helm +100%, so 126x2), while there's significant overlap for the Bone Visage.

i think you rolled a low def visage, which range from like 100-157.

I've upgraded many uniques and rares and that is a first for me. Appreciate your input, but the fact that it can drop after spending runes and pgems is troubling. If it had to happen I'm glad it was on this. Cheers! (will be looking at the upgrade item limitations from now on to see what my outcomes may be)

Always look at the bases before you upgrade to make sure it is worth it. You had a high base def Grim Helm and rolled a low Bone Visage with 104 def. I've rolled an Arreat's Face on my barb and only added like 10 def while putting the str through the roof, ive seen better non upped arreats than the one im using :/.... its one of the reason people will pay a premium for some upped items that roll high def.

If I were imbuing an item I would know the details of a base, gambling requires a decent knowledge before spending millions on a Dagger, but upgrading uniques to elite should automatically be able to beat (or at least meet) the previous exceptional's basic defense/attack amount. Then we can talk about how well we really did and premiums on gozu or godrolls. This isn't like I threw in 3 PGems and hoped for the best. Upgrading uniques/rares/(now maybe sets) should have an innate % pool that is say between the normal 50%-100%, increasing by rarity and quality. There will still be what is considered bad rolls and the premiums will also remain. I'm supposed to be playing Diablo...I'll get off my soapbox. Cheers!

As others have said, when upgrade any item to the next tier, including unique, game will randomly choose the base of the new tier… so just hope the new base it picks is in the high def range for the calculation

Ive upgraded some unique armors and yeah the def is terrible… oh well

When a unique item with +x% enhanced defense drops, it's base defense value is always set to max + 1.
When you upgrade it, it's base defense value is rerolled.
Vampire Gaze always has 126 base defense and a Bone Visage can have anything between 100-157 defense, giving you ~45% chance to get a lower def roll after upgrading it. So it's not that uncommon, although you got a very unlucky roll.

same deal with Arreat's Face. I've spent close to a Ber buying them, upgrading them and then getting shit rolls and reselling for cheap. It's painful!

So y'all are saying it's just me.

Appreciate it....I will give a little more thought to what the odds are in the future.

We all got caught by some obscure rule at some point.
It can be frustrating but... well... that's how the game is.

helms are badly designed in d2. It never made sense that elite helms can be lower than exceptional helms. This should be a priority fix if they ever want to fix this and put that gambling life away for good.

Take for e.g Shaftstop Mesh Armor. You can just close your eyes and up it and you'll be rewarded with much higher def from Boneweave.

It should be a consistent experience for every item class.