Teleport Charm: Good Idea/Bad Idea?

Curious to hear people's thoughts:

Would a, say, Unique Grand Charm that granted +1 Teleport as an oskill be a net positive or a net negative to the game?

Would it be best to gate it behind something like the Pandemonium Event? Make it a Terror Zone Exclusive (possibly by giving it a ilvl of, say, 95+)? Put it only into a specific boss's loot pool ( Duriel comes to mind, as that's an inherently time-consuming farm due to the false Tal Rasha's Tomb s and the messy map layout of the real tomb)?

Should it have a drawback of some kind? What would a fair drawback even look like? -50% Life and Mana? -100% Stamina? -X to All Skills?

Would a second runeword of something like "Aether" ( Zod in a 1 OS Weapon/Shield/ Helm/Armor) that provides +1 Teleport and little else be an interesting addition to the game? What about Unique Jewels that provide utility oskills skills like Telekinesis / Teleport / Leap / Increased Speed?

Like I said, just curious to hear people's thoughts on the matter

I would say: positive.

The very existence of Enigma leads to a more fun and fast-paced gameplay, but it's coming with a huge disadvantage: Everybody needs an Enigma if playing online in such racing parties.

This makes many builds obsolete which rely on having NO Enigma, for example, Dragondin (needs Dragon armor), many melee or ranged builds (for which Fortitude, Treachery or Hustle is the better choice in terms of damage and survivability), Poisonmancer (Bramble), ANY SET USER (all of these include an armor piece of equipment) and so on.

For this reason, I DON'T LIKE the concept of Enigma on principle. One piece of equipment restricts a whole spectrum of viable builds, which is a very bad thing in my opinion.

I would either remove Enigma or nerf Teleport (which would, in fact, upset many players) OR give more alternatives. So I really like your idea.

I would also appreciate the occurence of more different unique charms in this game.

This is just off the top of my head, but...

You could actually gate it behind the Pandemonium Event and make it have a drawback: it'll be a new Hellfire Torch variant.

Keep the ctc Firestorm and the Hydra charges so the name still makes sense, but it will have +1 to Teleport instead of any +attributes/resistances/all skills.

Since it's a Hellfire Torch, you can't simultaneously hold both a Teleport one and a usual +attributes/resistances/all skills one.

I haven't thought much about how it drops. Maybe Ubers still only drop one torch and sometimes it's a Teleport one? Maybe Ubers will still always drop a usual torch but rarely also drop a Teleport one (and you have to leave Tristram and go back in to get them both)? Etc., etc.

Lots of possibilities.

Hmm, I am.of the opposite opinion. Remove Teleport from the game entirely.

BoringTitle wrote: 1 year ago

Hmm, I am.of the opposite opinion. Remove Teleport from the game entirely.

You pretty much cannot play a summoner without Teleport, also cannot skip some immune monsters in tight spaces.
Not sure about Teleport charm but some piece of gear other than Enigma would be a nice addition.

Sorry bub but that's just nonsense. Of course you can play summoner without telestomping around. Been there done that for 20+ years.

BonyM wrote: 1 year ago

BoringTitle wrote: 1 year ago

Hmm, I am.of the opposite opinion. Remove Teleport from the game entirely.

You pretty much cannot play a summoner without Teleport, also cannot skip some immune monsters in tight spaces.
Not sure about Teleport charm but some piece of gear other than Enigma would be a nice addition.

Aelanwyr wrote: 1 year ago

Curious to hear people's thoughts:

Would a, say, Unique Grand Charm that granted +1 Teleport as an oskill be a net positive or a net negative to the game?

Positive. But not necessarily hugely so.

But perhaps don't make it limited to just Teleport.
Make it a unique that has a random skill on it, any of them. One that can start to drop in NM.

Amazon with a Lightning Mastery skiller... Yeah, that sounds like fun...

Probably not though...

Would it be best to gate it behind something like the Pandemonium Event? Make it a Terror Zone Exclusive (possibly by giving it a ilvl of, say, 95+)? Put it only into a specific boss's loot pool ( Duriel comes to mind, as that's an inherently time-consuming farm due to the false Tal Rasha's Tomb s and the messy map layout of the real tomb)?

Terrible idea. It's bad enough how EXTREMELY hard it is for a new(or even many seasoned) player to get highend stuff overall.

Should it have a drawback of some kind? What would a fair drawback even look like? -50% Life and Mana? -100% Stamina? -X to All Skills?

Uh, then what would be the point of it existing?
Why ever would you want to bother with something like that?

Would a second runeword of something like "Aether" ( Zod in a 1 OS Weapon/Shield/ Helm/Armor) that provides +1 Teleport and little else be an interesting addition to the game?

And how many people have ever seen a Zod, much less have one available? Allowing a couple of single socket rune"words" might be a great idea overall, but NOT using Zod.

What about Unique Jewels that provide utility oskills skills like Telekinesis / Teleport / Leap / Increased Speed?

Excellent idea as long as they're not utterly impossible to find.
For comparison, i have seen exactly 1 rainbow facet drop, EVER, and never had one myself.

I like the concept of expanding Teleport, but at a cost. The mod I play allows you to add Teleport to any armor with a cube recipe; Zod, soj, some other stuff. For singleplayer, the cost is very high but the potential for build variety is also huge and exciting

And if you can't imagine ever grinding for that, they also added a Mal-priced runeword with Teleport, but life drain and other drawbacks. And Enigma is cheaper, only costing Jah. So there are three tiered options

This system makes Teleport available for most players, if they want it, while also expanding build variety at the top end. But I'm not sure how this system would work in the bnet economy

edit: Forgot to mention, limiting Teleport to armor also is a cost in a way, from a character building perspective. Adding Teleport to a charm is too much expansion of Teleport, in my view

Tend to be with last opinion: add some other ways but scarcely and only on endgame items.

Fully remove Teleport is not "balanced" in that some builds (summoners, necro or druid, come to mind, but also HDin) really want it more than others (any Zon for example).

Tyrael's Might is an obvious candidate for +1 to Teleport, but some other unique Élite could have it too. Templar's Might and Leviathan seem other good candidates.

Or indeed an armor runeword... but with nothing else than Teleport and in the Ist range.
Or another runeword giving Dragon Flight could be fun too to add little brothers to Enigma.

Anyway guys, don't daydream : it will most likely never happen.

It's one of the things I added in my mod, as a guaranteed (and sole source of) drop from quest Hell Baal. That makes it so it can't be used to cheese and Teleport past most of the game (which can already be done with a Teleport staff) and it comes with a strong penalty of -15% max all resists and -15% all resists, it's also a 1x2 shape which means if you decide to cheese and place it in the cube after reaching your destination then it comes with the inconvenience of not being able to store a 4x2 item in the cube.

The resist penalties allow an opportunity to gear against it with +max res gear, or if you prefer a "don't need resists if you don't get hit" playstyle that'll work too, like if you've got meatshields or such. Admittedly that's biased towards casters who tend to be ranged and benefit more from teleporting out of the way with their higher FCR but what can you do. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I mean I did buff physical damage builds in general with increased base weapon damage, increased strength/dexterity damage bonuses, much higher durability, some other stuff.

I thought it was more interesting with a penalty than just a free Teleport item when you beat the game, and can still be used to free up your chest slot from Enigma (which I also significantly nerfed) and not just a stepping Stone to it.

How I look at it, teleporting around the map doesn't actually feel like playing the game.

To me it feels like cheese. Enigma existence cuts down non build diversity and variety. Also, if sorc didn't have Teleport would she be as common? Doubt it.

Teleport has never been a balanced skill.

The vast majority of my builds don't use it, that way I can play the game, which from my perspective involves navigating mazes filled with enemies. Not popping around for a quick farm.

Necrarch wrote: 1 year ago

Tend to be with last opinion: add some other ways but scarcely and only on endgame items.

Fully remove Teleport is not "balanced" in that some builds (summoners, necro or druid, come to mind, but also HDin) really want it more than others (any Zon for example).

Tyrael's Might is an obvious candidate for +1 to Teleport, but some other unique Élite could have it too. Templar's Might and Leviathan seem other good candidates.

Or indeed an armor runeword... but with nothing else than Teleport and in the Ist range.
Or another runeword giving Dragon Flight could be fun too to add little brothers to Enigma.

Anyway guys, don't daydream : it will most likely never happen.

Sure you CAN play summoner without Teleport but it is tedious, maggot lair comes to mind.
Also Arcane Sanctuary and the road to diablo.
It is just not fun.

DarkMaster wrote: 1 year ago

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It's one of the things I added in my mod, as a guaranteed (and sole source of) drop from quest Hell Baal. That makes it so it can't be used to cheese and Teleport past most of the game (which can already be done with a Teleport staff) and it comes with a strong penalty of -15% max all resists and -15% all resists, it's also a 1x2 shape which means if you decide to cheese and place it in the cube after reaching your destination then it comes with the inconvenience of not being able to store a 4x2 item in the cube.

The resist penalties allow an opportunity to gear against it with +max res gear, or if you prefer a "don't need resists if you don't get hit" playstyle that'll work too, like if you've got meatshields or such. Admittedly that's biased towards casters who tend to be ranged and benefit more from teleporting out of the way with their higher FCR but what can you do. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I mean I did buff physical damage builds in general with increased base weapon damage, increased strength/dexterity damage bonuses, much higher durability, some other stuff.

I thought it was more interesting with a penalty than just a free Teleport item when you beat the game, and can still be used to free up your chest slot from Enigma (which I also significantly nerfed) and not just a stepping Stone to it.

I love this approach and the 1x2 shape of it. The penalty is not a dealbreaker, you get Teleport on one hand and must be more careful with your res, the quest drop from Hell Ball is also fantastic and of course would work as the Anni/Torch/ Gheed charms, can't pick up more than one.

That tedious grinding is what I live for my good sir. When the pressure let's up and I can clear the game while watching a movie on another screen, that's when my interest truly wanes and I start thinking about rolling a new character.

But then I'm thensame kinda weirdo that restarts demonsouls over and over so i can get the useless grey demon soul from the boss at the beginning of the game. (And then tries to beat the game with as low of a soul level as possible).

Without difficulty, for me, there really is no fun involved.

It's partly the reason I play d2lod straight off the disk no updates. It truly was a much harder game back then. ( Iron Maiden casting oblivion knights and Lord De Seis prenerf is just fantastic to me).

I do however respect that others have their own way of doing things, but I can't justify how many times I've been stalked by teleporting novamancers (among other things) in d2. From my point of view that's just broken as far as PvP content and balance are concerned.

BonyM wrote: 1 year ago

Sure you CAN play summoner without Teleport but it is tedious, maggot lair comes to mind.
Also Arcane Sanctuary and the road to diablo.
It is just not fun.

BoringTitle wrote: 1 year ago

Hmm, I am.of the opposite opinion. Remove Teleport from the game entirely.

I like the way Teleport interacts with the Sorceress class fantasy of the scry-and-die wizard.

Just imagine from the NPCs' and monsters' perspectives: with a shimmer in space followed by a warbling pop, you appear as if from nowhere into the Matron of Pain's home away from home. While her minions are trying to figure out who you even are, you bury her under an avalanche and disappear without so much as a word. Back at camp, the people are almost in disbelief that you've returned so soon with a trophy of your short and grisly work. Gheed was not even aware you had left. Warriv begins packing his wagon, while Kashya and Akara discuss the logistics of properly securing the monastery. Sure, the countryside is still infested with hellspawn, but you technically held up your end of the bargain. You have more important things to do with your time than banish nameless nobodies back to the Burning Hells.

Lmao! Servers been open 5 whole minutes and all the act bosses aren't dead? Imagine the look on poor old ecards face as he hangs out in his cage as you pop on through just to grab a wooden leg and say toodles for the hundredth time.

Aelanwyr wrote: 1 year ago

BoringTitle wrote: 1 year ago

Hmm, I am.of the opposite opinion. Remove Teleport from the game entirely.

I like the way Teleport interacts with the Sorceress class fantasy of the scry-and-die wizard.

Just imagine from the NPCs' and monsters' perspectives: with a shimmer in space followed by a warbling pop, you appear as if from nowhere into the Matron of Pain's home away from home. While her minions are trying to figure out who you even are, you bury her under an avalanche and disappear without so much as a word. Back at camp, the people are almost in disbelief that you've returned so soon with a trophy of your short and grisly work. Gheed was not even aware you had left. Warriv begins packing his wagon, while Kashya and Akara discuss the logistics of properly securing the monastery. Sure, the countryside is still infested with hellspawn, but you technically held up your end of the bargain. You have more important things to do with your time than banish nameless nobodies back to the Burning Hells.

BoringTitle wrote: 1 year ago

That tedious grinding is what I live for my good sir. When the pressure let's up and I can clear the game while watching a movie on another screen, that's when my interest truly wanes and I start thinking about rolling a new character.

But then I'm thensame kinda weirdo that restarts demonsouls over and over so i can get the useless grey demon soul from the boss at the beginning of the game. (And then tries to beat the game with as low of a soul level as possible).

Without difficulty, for me, there really is no fun involved.

It's partly the reason I play d2lod straight off the disk no updates. It truly was a much harder game back then. ( Iron Maiden casting oblivion knights and Lord De Seis prenerf is just fantastic to me).

I do however respect that others have their own way of doing things, but I can't justify how many times I've been stalked by teleporting novamancers (among other things) in d2. From my point of view that's just broken as far as PvP content and balance are concerned.

BonyM wrote: 1 year ago

Sure you CAN play summoner without Teleport but it is tedious, maggot lair comes to mind.
Also Arcane Sanctuary and the road to diablo.
It is just not fun.

I guess depends on point of view and thats all good and fair, me personally i will never play a summoner again without Teleport.
Other characters or builds sure but this one is a must.
Unless mob ai is better, Teleport is part of your kit forever.

I totally get it, especially in Arcane Sanctuary, sewers, and to some degree the maggot lair.

The other end is that each build is good in some place and terrible in others by design.

Bone Spear is excellent in those locations, same with Corpse Explosion and poison novamancer.

And as far as druid summoner is concerned. My builds vary greatly from playthrough to playthrough on him and those areas don't really give me too much hassle. (Though always some flavor of Werewolf).

I personally find all out summoner just one step removed from botting. But it can be relaxing once and a while.

Also, in its earliest days, d2 was intended to be played in groups with everyone working together. Thus why pally exists at all. Everyone covers each other's weaknesses. I humbly submit that the game has strayed far from this slowly over time.

I mean, in the old days, skellies were considered useless past normal mode, and Iron Maiden was considered a good skill.

I do agree that the skellie ai could have really used some work a long time ago. I just resummon the myself. Same with wolves and all the others. Not really the greatest solution to what you are saying. They just get bunched up, separated etc.

To be fair, I actually think the skelly ai is worse on resurrected..

However if I could get one single change to the game at all it would be being able to host /PLAYERS 8 games on all characters not just offline, I want to play with my wife and kids at the difficulty level I am accustomed to.

BonyM wrote: 1 year ago

BoringTitle wrote: 1 year ago

That tedious grinding is what I live for my good sir. When the pressure let's up and I can clear the game while watching a movie on another screen, that's when my interest truly wanes and I start thinking about rolling a new character.

But then I'm thensame kinda weirdo that restarts demonsouls over and over so i can get the useless grey demon soul from the boss at the beginning of the game. (And then tries to beat the game with as low of a soul level as possible).

Without difficulty, for me, there really is no fun involved.

It's partly the reason I play d2lod straight off the disk no updates. It truly was a much harder game back then. ( Iron Maiden casting oblivion knights and Lord De Seis prenerf is just fantastic to me).

I do however respect that others have their own way of doing things, but I can't justify how many times I've been stalked by teleporting novamancers (among other things) in d2. From my point of view that's just broken as far as PvP content and balance are concerned.

BonyM wrote: 1 year ago

Sure you CAN play summoner without Teleport but it is tedious, maggot lair comes to mind.
Also Arcane Sanctuary and the road to diablo.
It is just not fun.

I guess depends on point of view and thats all good and fair, me personally i will never play a summoner again without Teleport.
Other characters or builds sure but this one is a must.
Unless mob ai is better, Teleport is part of your kit forever.

If summoner builds are unplayable without Teleport, then monster AI should be improved. Immunes? Get that Sunder or Infinity instead of being a coward and skipping all the immune monsters. Teleport should not be a silver bullet.

The simplest thing would be an option for game host players to restrict Teleport. Similar to the terror zones, which can be turned on or off before starting a game.

When turned off, everything remains as it is.

Turned on, a foot symbol appears next to the game name. When you join such a game, Teleport gets a 1 minute cooldown.

So players may decide if they want to rush or play slowly.

This fix would be easy to implement and gives us players more freedom in how we want to play the game AND improves chances to find players at the same gear level or attitude!

A real win-win-situation.