Weird bug that created a dupe!

Knappogue wrote: 7 months ago

TheDoo wrote: 7 months ago

Ah got it... So you are saying that their duplicate detecting system/tool only searches/scans for whole items and not each component they are made of?

No. It scans for all item identifiers, regardless of their location. IIRC this ONLY works when making runewords. This is due to how runewords are made. Making one is effectively creating a entirely new item, for bnet servers, and destroying the components in the same process. Rolling a runeword adds attributes that are not found in the pieces. That exact action is done in a different process than socketing 2 Bers in a COA, for example. If you had two duped Bers in your COA, and bnet did their scan. The Bers would poof because a new unique identifier was not created when socketing those runes. Adding 2 Bers to the COA did not create a new item in the eyes of bnet servers, and their existing identifiers were not destroyed.

Generally speaking, so far as I remember it all correctly:
Back when duping first became a real, wide spread problem, Blizz introduced the concept of unique item IDs to prevent dupes. Essentially, some items got a new hidden ID attached to them that should be unique within the entire game for only that one particular item. The idea being that if you have 2 items with the same such ID, they would then be considered dupes of one another. "Some items" in this case refers to most things anyone would care to dupe but so far as I recall not things like gold or TP scrolls or the like.

How exactly dupes were handled once identified also went through some iterations and people (read: mainly aholes who still traded their fresh dupes to unknowing buyers) soon figured out just when and how to leave a game so that they're not the ones to lose their item but the other side is as it was essentially a "poof for one on leaving [and/or entering]". Supposedly, with D2:R that has been expanded with a full regular DB scan that just poofs every dupe for everyone every so often though I still consider that hearsay tbh. Never found any true confirmation of it. Would've been a logical (and way overdue) addition though.

Obviously, after item IDs were added, folks also very quickly started figuring out which items are affected, what normal process changes IDs and what abnormal processes do the same in order to protect dupes. This is why folks then largely stuck to duping runes and bases, rather than runewords as creating a runeword would tack on a new ID and hence turn your duped materials into a fresh, legit runeword that wouldn't poof. The same was true when cubing runes to the next higher ones (i.e. dupe

Sur to turn into bers, rather than duping bers directly). And the same was true for some other actions/processes, intended and unintended alike.

Mind you, the vast majority of all of this was 20+ years ago so take the above with a grain of salt on the details...Memory being hazy and this being the part of D2 history I'd kind of prefer to forget about and all that.

Moral of the story:
These days, you shouldn't normally have to worry about accidentally trading for dupes. But if you really, truly are worried about it..just don't trade for runewords, trade for the materials instead and then use said materials asap, ideally still within the same game.

#4 - #5 sounds shady.

Why would the game not allow the pick up of any anni unless it's already equipped or in the personal stash?

And if it doesn't allow pick up it shouldn't allow a trade to pass thru.

Are you sure you don't have a duplicate of the same anni stats wise in your shared stash perhaps?

This sounds pretty bollocks to me tho.

Skaijuice wrote: 7 months ago

#4 - #5 sounds shady.

Why would the game not allow the pick up of any anni unless it's already equipped or in the personal stash?

And if it doesn't allow pick up it shouldn't allow a trade to pass thru.

Are you sure you don't have a duplicate of the same anni stats wise in your shared stash perhaps?

This sounds pretty bollocks to me tho.

It's definitely weird. All Annis for trade are stored on a separate account. I had to go and grab that specific Anni with my main, and hence there's no possibility of another with the same stats in my stash anywhere.

Schnorki is saying that we probably accidentally duped it, though to reproduce it requires some steps that we aren't aware of.

Lanceor wrote: 7 months ago

[..]
Schnorki is saying that we probably accidentally duped it, though to reproduce it requires some steps that we aren't aware of.

Weeeell, I didn't say 'probably'.

The possibility is there but realistically speaking, someone having gotten confused and there being no duplicate anni after all remains far more likely. You wouldn't be the first to do that.

Skaijuice wrote: 7 months ago

#4 - #5 sounds shady.

Why would the game not allow the pick up of any anni unless it's already equipped or in the personal stash?

And if it doesn't allow pick up it shouldn't allow a trade to pass thru.

Are you sure you don't have a duplicate of the same anni stats wise in your shared stash perhaps?

This sounds pretty bollocks to me tho.

I have several annis with the same stats stored in the same shared folder, but I also know as a fact that none of them are duped, so it's quite likely that Lanceor has a few same stat annis as well.

Update: Anni poofed

I just received the following message from DthWshxd:

DthWshxd wrote:7 months ago

Hello! The anni just randomly disappeared from my inv. I changed the region for a trade and it just gone. I am so confused

My one hasn't disappeared yet and is still in my stash. I've offered to re-give it to him, or let him choose another.

Sounds like a very rare Edge case, probably very hard to reproduce, were you guys experiencing lag at that moment?

PabloSL wrote: 7 months ago

Sounds like a very rare Edge case, probably very hard to reproduce, were you guys experiencing lag at that moment?

The trade was on a Euro server which normally has a latency of around 300-400 ms for me. So it was definitely laggy at my end, but I couldn't tell if it was more than normal.

I was having a lot of difficulty creating and joining games across all regions that day though.

Lanceor wrote: 7 months ago

PabloSL wrote: 7 months ago

Sounds like a very rare Edge case, probably very hard to reproduce, were you guys experiencing lag at that moment?

The trade was on a Euro server which normally has a latency of around 300-400 ms for me. So it was definitely laggy at my end, but I couldn't tell if it was more than normal.

I was having a lot of difficulty creating and joining games across all regions that day though.

High latency can have unexpected effects on code hehe, that's why I'm asking, it was probably a combination of factors that led to the duplicate, latency could have played a part

A single-poof is interesting. And would (based on hear-say for D2:R's additions) actually disagree with the duping hypothesis and support that your buyer merely got confused.

Based on item ID poofing in the olden days, it was typically related to "existing in immediate proximity of one another". I.e. if you had two folks join the same game with the same item, only one of them got to keep theirs afterwards (simplified).

Seeing how you didn't join up again though and a poof would hence be solely due to the (supposed) new D2:R process of "scan DB, delete dupes", you should've both lost your anni at that point in time. Or at least said hear-say previously suggested that the new process is "scan DB, create list of dupes, delete all", rather than "delete all but 1".

So it either is indeed due to confusion between the two of you (no offense meant but it still remains the likeliest reasoning) or that there new process does exist but not work as was previously described (or at least as I had seen it previously described).

All in all....who knows....'tis Blizzard, everything's possible.

Hi, the Chineses and Koreans have found a way to dup runes and items... maybe you discovert how ...

many asian traders trades of items for 120

Jah, (never take the risk of make it), of others have 80 jewels "15% ias + 15% allres" and "15% ias + 40% dmg" in stock for trade, some have more than 6000 trades... these people have no life ^^ ... asian traders, it's another world ^^ ...
(I just have 1000 trades, I have been online and active every day since the start of D2R)...

otherwise to return to the dupes, yes I confirm that I had seen an old video of a guy who multiplied the runes and items...

after asian traders make there life, but it sucks if the guys paid you with duped runes or items, you can't know it...

but if you make a runeword with duped runes or duped items, it's a new item that is created, so this item will be safe (it's what I had read on the forums)...

have a good day.

Not that it doesn't exist but do keep in mind that a fair few of those folks run/are part of bot farms or the like. And for those, 6k+ trades is not exactly a lot. In fact, I dare say that's about as low as it gets. I wouldn't assume they have no life but rather for a fair few, it is in fact literally their job and how they generate income. Has been like that for decades. Or they just really enjoy trading, more so than actually playing the game (there's a surprising amount of folks who do ).

Hell, even I have over 1k trades total just on this site and active as I may have been in the earlier days, beating me by a factor of 5-6 overall is perfectly reasonable for even non-farm true traders.

Besides, if you actually have a reliable (and decent) way to dupe - and you intend to abuse it for resale - why waste your time duping some item to find a buyer for to sell for runes (which themselves might turn out to be lazy-dupes and poof on you) to then find more buyers for? At that point, you'd likely be way better off and way faster/more efficient just bypassing the middleman and duping runes to no end to then cube-perm. Saves you the hassle of trading A for B to sell for C. Saves you customer complaints and a bad rep because nothing will ever poof. Just a win win all around. Selling GG rare dupes for money, sure, that's as old as D2 itself. But dupes for runes to then sell forward? Makes little sense imo.


Side note, seeing how I just noticed I don't actually know:
Anyone remember when this whole business model of 'virtual item farming/resale' started? I know it has been around since at least the original D2 days but no clue if that's actually what made it a thing or whether there was (wayyyy?) earlier games that already established the concept.

Schnorki wrote: 7 months ago

Or they just really enjoy trading, more so than actually playing the game (there's a surprising amount of folks who do ).

I'm one of those people! If it wasn't for trading, I would have dumped this game LONG ago

for answer to you Schnorki:
"At that point, you'd likely be way better off and way faster/more efficient just bypassing the middleman and duping runes to no end to then cube-perm."

1) they buy the perfect bases 15%ed for 10, 20 or 40

Jah, some examples:

Archon Plate 15%ed 3os or 4os (Enigma, Dragon, Fortitude),

Sacred Targe 15%ed

Eth or no (Dragon, Dream, Spirit, Exile),

Phase Blade 15%ed 5os or 6os (Grief, Last Wish),
and after they reroll until create a perfect runeword "clean"...

if blizz looking for dupe runes or items, the guys who will have a problem it's the guys who will have in his stash the 80

Jah duped, not the guy who created a runeword ^^ because like it said :
if you made a runeword with duped runes or items, it's a new item that is created, so this item will be safe...

if i bought you a nice table in oak for $500, with x10 $50 fake dollars, and that 1 week after you use this money for go to supermarket, it's not me and my table who will have a problem, but you ^^ ...
(sorry if my english)

Aye, that's the opposite direction tho.

Aaaaanywho, in a world where botfarms run literally thousands of bots (as proven by their Asia non-pass mishap), not everything that "looks like duping to normal players" actually is.

Paradise wrote: 7 months ago

Hi, the Chineses and Koreans have found a way to dup runes and items... maybe you discovert how ...

many asian traders trades of items for 120

Jah, (never take the risk of make it), of others have 80 jewels "15% ias + 15% allres" and "15% ias + 40% dmg" in stock for trade, some have more than 6000 trades... these people have no life ^^ ... asian traders, it's another world ^^ ...
(I just have 1000 trades, I have been online and active every day since the start of D2R)...

otherwise to return to the dupes, yes I confirm that I had seen an old video of a guy who multiplied the runes and items...

after asian traders make there life, but it sucks if the guys paid you with duped runes or items, you can't know it...

but if you make a runeword with duped runes or duped items, it's a new item that is created, so this item will be safe (it's what I had read on the forums)...

have a good day.

Ah that explains it. I often wondered why they hell prices are insanely high on Traderie's Asian market vs the North American and European markets. And item could be worth 5 jahs on NA/EU, but Asians ask for 100 jahs!

Weird thing,

I have a 30 ra, 15/18 gerke shield. I swear i never traded it off but i could no longer find it in any of my characters on my 2 accts…

Maybe i traded somehow but forgot that i did…

Sometimes our mind play tricks on us. False Memory…

It is a mystery, but it is what is what is i guess…