DILEMA

Hello, first of all I introduce myself

My name is Ivan, and I currently live in London, I'm 33 years old!

That's how I played for the first time in my life diablo, more precisely the 2 resurrected through the nintendo switch.

I LOVED IT!

I've already finished the normal mode and now I've entered the nightmare, only that... Although I really liked the game, I'm finding it a little boring that the nightmare is basically doing everything I've ever done just more difficult.

After all, didn't I like the game that much? .

Or should I have taken a break and only then return to go to the nightmare?

How did you do it?

Has anyone had this existential crisis?

that is somewhat the essence of the game - especially if you play single player self-found. You play the game three times, always getting more difficult. Usually you will hit walls and come to points where you even need to do some farming before you can progress further.

If you play online there are different aspects to the game - playing it from 0 to 100 three times is usually not one of them (unless you enjoy that). Many people will rather trade and farm endlessly and grind to bring your character to perfection and high levels. You usually also will try out many different builds but use the community to get through the "game" as fast as possible.

Also the difficult increase from Nightmare to Hell is way higher than Normal to Nightmare.
Monster are way tought, hit way harder and always have some king of immunity - sometimes 2.
Depending on the frequency of immunes from your main attack, you have to be prepared to

Evade them, develop a secondary attack of other type or count with your Mercenary to do the job (or use some itens/skill that enable you to break immunity -

Amplify Damage,

Decrepify,

Conviction,

Lower Resist or Sunder Charms)

In general you can go smooth until end of Nightmare. But normally have to farm a little (to increase level and enhance equipment) if you want to go "smooth" on hell.
(In my last leveing, after I did the 1st quest in Act 1 Hell - for the Skill point - I played Nightmare

Terror Zones until level ~L73 before going back to Hell)

But yes... You will replay the game many times over and over... But after you end a difficult level you may play directly specific areas on that difficult (don't need to play the whole game again )
And some areas are funnier and more rewarding then others and are played more like: Cows,

Chaos Sanctuary,

Tal Rashas Tomb,

Baal's Runs.

fredkid wrote: 3 months ago

Além disso, o aumento difícil de Pesadelo para o

Inferno é muito maior do que Normal para Pesadelo. Monstros são muito difíceis, atingem muito mais forte e sempre têm algum rei da imunidade - às vezes 2. Dependendo da frequência dos imunes do seu ataque principal, você tem que estar preparado para evadi-los, desenvolver

Um ataque secundário de outro tipo ou contar com o seu Mercenário para fazer o trabalho (ou usar alguns itens/habilidade que lhe permitam quebrar a imunidade -

Amplify Damage,

Decrepify,

Conviction,

Lower Resist ou Sunder Charms) Em geral, você pode ir suave até o final do Pesadelo. Mas normalmente tem que cultivar

Um pouco (para aumentar o nível e melhorar o equipamento) se você quiser ir "suave" no

Inferno. (No meu último levante, depois que fiz a 1a missão no Ato 1

Inferno - para o ponto de Habilidade - joguei Nightmare

Terror Zones até o nível ~L73 antes de voltar para o

Inferno) Mas sim... Você vai repetir o jogo muitas vezes e mais... Mas depois de terminar

Um nível difícil, você pode jogar diretamente em áreas específicas nessa dificuldade (não precisa jogar o jogo inteiro novamente ) E algumas áreas são mais engraçadas e gratificantes do que outras e são jogadas mais como: Vacas, Santuário do Caos, Túmulo de

Tal Rashas, Corridas de

Baal. [/citação

Thank you very much for your elaborate and complete answers.

From what I hear from hell, no matter how much I like all aspects of the game, I may not have mental preparation for a difficulty like hell neither preparation nor patience I confess, I like challenge but not exaggerated or too frustrating.

The point is a player who ends up in a nightmare and doesn't try hell is being a bad diablo player?

I don't know, it kind of looks like you're betraying the game if you abandon yourself at the end of the nightmare.

I know that these are ridiculous means "dilemas" and deep down they don't matter at all. But I think it's just a topic of discussion.

In fact, it's not only good for diablo but for video games in general.

Play only the normal or the hardcore?

I say that I am more part of the NORMAL

Club, but I would like other opinions and visions

There is a thread about people discussing that the middle part of the game (most nightmare) is the funniest:
forums/levels-29-54-the-best-time-actua ... 68609.html

Ezio009 wrote: 3 months ago

[..]
The point is a player who ends up in a nightmare and doesn't try hell is being a bad diablo player?
[..]

Depends on how you define "bad".
If you actively try to make it through the game on all difficulties and get eternally stuck in nightmare then yeah, that'd be kind of a "bad" player in the skill sense.

If however (which it sounds like to me) you simply don't see the appeal in doing the same thing over two more times with just a bit more difficulty, that doesn't make a bad player, that just makes the game not be for you. And there's nothing wrong with that. Not every game is for everyone. Hell, there's tons of crazy successful main stream games even that I never got the appeal of in the slightest.

D2 isn't a game of "new content around every corner", it is more a game of "here's a set structure, now go make your own fun!".

As you play through normal the first time, yes, there's plenty of new stuff to be found and you merrily play through the game.

As you advance into and through nightmare, the content is already the same, merely with a minor difficulty increase. The difference here is mainly that you typically end up playing differently yourself as you by now reach higher levels and start having access to endgame skills which affects your own playstyle.

Hell is then once again the same content but with a more significant increase in difficulty, primarily thanks to immunities being quite common which for many builds forces you to think differently and adapt to actually make it past them. The underlying content however is once again the same.

After you make it through hell and get some levels, you then typically get into "phase 4" so to speak which is your item hunting phase aka the eternal slot machine. This is when you really start doing the exact same thing over and over. It may be starting as something still new to you (e.g. farming pits which you never bothered entering on normal playthroughs) or it may be something you've already done 3 times anyways if you for example start farming

Mephisto or CS/diablo. Either way, it'll be largely the same thing countless times.

Additionally, you do open up some new content on hell+ that you will not see before. Specifically, that's thing's like ubers and dclone. Cow lvl as well I suppose counts as new after only having done the regular playthroughs though that one you can also access on normal.

At the same time and especially after getting your initial higher gearing done, you then look at what makes the game fun for you longer term and what is possible within the set structure of it.
For some, that's pvp.
For others, that's setting your own challenges (time trials, naked playthroughs, whatever).
For others yet, that's eternal slot machine item hunting and/or grailing.
Others again come up with different stuff for themselves.
But all of that happens within the same game and the same content.

Yet, as with any game, no matter how good it may be at what it is, not everyone will enjoy it, let alone enjoy it more than once. So while some of us have managed to enjoy the hell out of this game for 20 years now, there's nothing wrong with others not getting it and moving on to something more suitable for them.

Side note: the 7 classes all have a very different playstyle (and even among one class you can have different ones, like Traps assassin and Martial arts Assassin). So it is quite common to see people starting the game with a new char when you reach level 80 to 90-ish with your previous one - but once again that's your way to play and enjoy the game, not something that you have to do or being "good" or "bad"

fredkid wrote: 3 months ago

There is a thread about people discussing that the middle part of the game (most nightmare) is the funniest:
forums/levels-29-54-the-best-time-actua ... 68609.html

ok thanks

Schnorki wrote: 3 months ago

Ezio009 wrote: 3 months ago

[..]
The point is a player who ends up in a nightmare and doesn't try hell is being a bad diablo player?
[..]

Depends on how you define "bad".
If you actively try to make it through the game on all difficulties and get eternally stuck in nightmare then yeah, that'd be kind of a "bad" player in the skill sense.

If however (which it sounds like to me) you simply don't see the appeal in doing the same thing over two more times with just a bit more difficulty, that doesn't make a bad player, that just makes the game not be for you. And there's nothing wrong with that. Not every game is for everyone. Hell, there's tons of crazy successful main stream games even that I never got the appeal of in the slightest.

D2 isn't a game of "new content around every corner", it is more a game of "here's a set structure, now go make your own fun!".

As you play through normal the first time, yes, there's plenty of new stuff to be found and you merrily play through the game.

As you advance into and through nightmare, the content is already the same, merely with a minor difficulty increase. The difference here is mainly that you typically end up playing differently yourself as you by now reach higher levels and start having access to endgame skills which affects your own playstyle.

Hell is then once again the same content but with a more significant increase in difficulty, primarily thanks to immunities being quite common which for many builds forces you to think differently and adapt to actually make it past them. The underlying content however is once again the same.

After you make it through hell and get some levels, you then typically get into "phase 4" so to speak which is your item hunting phase aka the eternal slot machine. This is when you really start doing the exact same thing over and over. It may be starting as something still new to you (e.g. farming pits which you never bothered entering on normal playthroughs) or it may be something you've already done 3 times anyways if you for example start farming

Mephisto or CS/diablo. Either way, it'll be largely the same thing countless times.

Additionally, you do open up some new content on hell+ that you will not see before. Specifically, that's thing's like ubers and dclone. Cow lvl as well I suppose counts as new after only having done the regular playthroughs though that one you can also access on normal.

At the same time and especially after getting your initial higher gearing done, you then look at what makes the game fun for you longer term and what is possible within the set structure of it.
For some, that's pvp.
For others, that's setting your own challenges (time trials, naked playthroughs, whatever).
For others yet, that's eternal slot machine item hunting and/or grailing.
Others again come up with different stuff for themselves.
But all of that happens within the same game and the same content.

Yet, as with any game, no matter how good it may be at what it is, not everyone will enjoy it, let alone enjoy it more than once. So while some of us have managed to enjoy the hell out of this game for 20 years now, there's nothing wrong with others not getting it and moving on to something more suitable for them.

Thank you for the contribution

So I mean, I really like all the elements of the game, I like rpgs and especially the action rpgs, this game I believe to be expert in this, basically it has everything that a good rpg should have. I am an old reader and the current spaces of rpg books so you can already see how I like a good root rpg, diablo 2 is perhaps the franchise all in itself are the closest personification that can be found in digital media.

Then in addition to liking action rpgs, the dark fantasy environment in the medieval middle also always pleased me a lot, and here diablo does not fail either.

I also like the isometric vision style itself a lot

And the story of diablo, although not one of the most elaborate, pleases me. I studied a little theology and these demons are very related to certain scriptures that exist in reality in fact

So the game has all the condiments I like in a game, from the gameplay to the weather/environment of the game.

But doing the exact same missions in a row isn't catching me, even though I love all the condiments in the game!

Maybe it's my personality.

I don't think there's any harm in making the story normally end and pass it on to another. Doing just because you like the environment and the theme is gameplay, maybe it's not the Spirit of diablo but it depends on what each one wants from the game.

Am I wrong?

The first time I played Diablo 2 (the old one) was in the 2000+ something and I liked it very much.
I completed pretty easily Normal and I was like: "Ohhh... I'm good at that."

Then was Nightmare with some challenges, but nothing special. Then I had your exact dilemma: Do I have to play the same game again with just a little improved difficulty? But I decided to go to Hell with confidence that I was still good at this.

So, the Hell difficulty came and... boy... I died at the first

Zombie on

Blood Moor, basically 100 meters from the town gate. I struggled all the way on Act I but finally ended ok. So the Act II was in front of me and... that was it.

I hit that said wall and was end of the game for me for more than 10 - 15 years. It was like that: exit town, die instantly on Death Beetle. Resurrect merc, exit town, die instantly again, go broke and finish. I didn't had internet at that time and knew almost nothing about Diablo 2 play style, with farming for gear and so on.

Then in 2023 I rediscovered the installed game on the old computer on countryside and played again for one day. It was enough to hook me again. It was last Easter and after that day I bought Diablo 2 Resurrected and played almost every day 'till today. I also read a lot about playing style and with the improved graphics and shared stash D2R is with me since last Easter.

Yes, it's repetitive but I'm ok with that. I like to grind for gear and have good tolerance to slow leveling at 95+ (boy... slow speed from level 98 > 99 is killing me).
I'm also at 90% Holy Grail (485 items found from 539).

Didn't read thru all the posts above but OP...

Norm to NM isn't a huge jump in difficulty.

Meeting head on a pack of "extra strong , aura enchanted , extra fast Death lords" in quite an eye opener. Especially when hit by an amp dmg curse by some random obli knight.

Oh..PS..- watch for stray

Arrows. One or two definitely has a way of hitting you when you have an amp dmg curse on ya.. (in hell they last a friggin long assss time).

But hitting Hell, and then subsequently Terrorized Hell (aka Hell V2) and able to make a killing is considered a challenge to some. I don't have the numbers to quantify "some" tho

Then of course there's the trading aspect of the game (which the newer titles lack such social intricasies of such activity..)

Ezio009 wrote: 3 months ago

[..]

But doing the exact same missions in a row isn't catching me, even though I love all the condiments in the game!

Maybe it's my personality.

I don't think there's any harm in making the story normally end and pass it on to another. Doing just because you like the environment and the theme is gameplay, maybe it's not the Spirit of diablo but it depends on what each one wants from the game.

Am I wrong?

I wouldn't say you're wrong. Fully understand where you're coming from. Though even with the individual parts of the game being what you're looking for, when judging the game as a whole, you do have to keep in mind that it is a couple decades old.

/grandpa-story-time
Back when I was a young grasshopper and d2 was new, action games in general (including action RPGs) largely had very little to no story at all. If you wanted story, you went for point and click adventures like legend of kyrandia or full on story RPGs such as baldur's gate and the like. I dare say, considering the focus was heavily on the "action" part of "action RPG", d2 actually delivered a surprisingly large amount of storytelling, albeit mainly through the cutscenes and whatnot. But even so, the whole concept of action games with a real, extensive story behind them - let alone procedurally generated endless open worlds - didn't really exist back then.
Hell, for the times, d2 was actually revolutionary in the replayability it offered because it shook up everything via (semi-)random level generation and hence different maps for the same zones. Even that was basically unheard of back in the olden days.

I dare say that your dilema is in fact exactly why so many of us had such high hopes for d3 (before being utterly disappointed beyond reason and not bothering to get any hopes up for d4). We love d2 for what it offers. And yet, I would wager a guess that if there was ever a true successor to d2 with the same atmosphere, the same level of quality, actual Passion behind it and on top of that modern-day extents of story-telling and procedural endless open world replayability most of us would likely be all over that. But since blizz has long since stopped giving a damn about anything related to quality or customer satisfaction and will still likely never sell the franchise to someone who would put in the necessary Passion and effort, all of the above remains a hopeless pipe Dream and we must either give up on it entirely or remain with the closest thing to it which isn't d3, definitely isn't d4 but is and remains d2(:r).

Florian_G wrote: 3 months ago

The first time I played Diablo 2 (the old one) was in the 2000+ something and I liked it very much.
I completed pretty easily Normal and I was like: "Ohhh... I'm good at that."

Then was Nightmare with some challenges, but nothing special. Then I had your exact dilemma: Do I have to play the same game again with just a little improved difficulty? But I decided to go to Hell with confidence that I was still good at this.

So, the Hell difficulty came and... boy... I died at the first

Zombie on

Blood Moor, basically 100 meters from the town gate. I struggled all the way on Act I but finally ended ok. So the Act II was in front of me and... that was it.

I hit that said wall and was end of the game for me for more that 10 - 15 years. It was like that: exit town, die instantly on Death Beetle. Resurrect merc, exit town, die instantly again, go broke and finish. I didn't had internet at that time and knew almost nothing about Diablo 2 play style, with farming for gear and so on.

Then in 2023 I rediscovered the installed game on the old computer on countryside and played again for one day. It was enough to hook me again. It was last Easter and after that day I bought Diablo 2 Resurrected and played almost every day 'till today. I also read a lot about playing style and with the improved graphics and shared stash D2R is with me since last Easter.

Yes, it's repetitive but I'm ok with that. I like to grind for gear and have good tolerance to slow leveling at 95+ (boy... slow speed from level 98 > 99 is killing me).
I'm also at 90% Holy Grail (485 items found from 539).

Wow! Hell must be really complicated .

Thank you for the contribution

Schnorki wrote: 3 months ago

Ezio009 wrote: 3 months ago

[..]

But doing the exact same missions in a row isn't catching me, even though I love all the condiments in the game!

Maybe it's my personality.

I don't think there's any harm in making the story normally end and pass it on to another. Doing just because you like the environment and the theme is gameplay, maybe it's not the Spirit of diablo but it depends on what each one wants from the game.

Am I wrong?

I wouldn't say you're wrong. Fully understand where you're coming from. Though even with the individual parts of the game being what you're looking for, when judging the game as a whole, you do have to keep in mind that it is a couple decades old.

/grandpa-story-time
Back when I was a young grasshopper and d2 was new, action games in general (including action RPGs) largely had very little to no story at all. If you wanted story, you went for point and click adventures like legend of kyrandia or full on story RPGs such as baldur's gate and the like. I dare say, considering the focus was heavily on the "action" part of "action RPG", d2 actually delivered a surprisingly large amount of storytelling, albeit mainly through the cutscenes and whatnot. But even so, the whole concept of action games with a real, extensive story behind them - let alone procedurally generated endless open worlds - didn't really exist back then.
Hell, for the times, d2 was actually revolutionary in the replayability it offered because it shook up everything via (semi-)random level generation and hence different maps for the same zones. Even that was basically unheard of back in the olden days.

I dare say that your dilema is in fact exactly why so many of us had such high hopes for d3 (before being utterly disappointed beyond reason and not bothering to get any hopes up for d4). We love d2 for what it offers. And yet, I would wager a guess that if there was ever a true successor to d2 with the same atmosphere, the same level of quality, actual Passion behind it and on top of that modern-day extents of story-telling and procedural endless open world replayability most of us would likely be all over that. But since blizz has long since stopped giving a damn about anything related to quality or customer satisfaction and will still likely never sell the franchise to someone who would put in the necessary Passion and effort, all of the above remains a hopeless pipe Dream and we must either give up on it entirely or remain with the closest thing to it which isn't d3, definitely isn't d4 but is and remains d2(:r).

Thank you so much

Skaijuice wrote: 3 months ago

Didn't read thru all the posts above but OP...

Norm to NM isn't a huge jump in difficulty.

Meeting head on a pack of "extra strong , aura enchanted , extra fast Death lords" in quite an eye opener. Especially when hit by an amp dmg curse by some random obli knight.

Oh..PS..- watch for stray

Arrows. One or two definitely has a way of hitting you when you have an amp dmg curse on ya.. (in hell they last a friggin long assss time).

But hitting Hell, and then subsequently Terrorized Hell (aka Hell V2) and able to make a killing is considered a challenge to some. I don't have the numbers to quantify "some" tho

Then of course there's the trading aspect of the game (which the newer titles lack such social intricasies of such activity..)

Obrigado pela participação

Ezio009 wrote: 3 months ago

Wow! Hell must be really complicated .

Well... I think we scared the new guy

Hell is.. hell.. if you try it without knowing anything and expect just a little harder Nightmare ...

But knowing its issues, in special that it is probably better to level up and gear up a little before change Nightmare for Hell, it is not a huge problem
(maybe just some few areas on the last acts that have Immunes that you can't

Dodge ... they can be a pain in the ass with some builds - mainly the

Chaos Sanctuary "mid-bosses" and the Ancients on Act 5)

fredkid wrote: 3 months ago

Ezio009 wrote: 3 months ago

Wow! Hell must be really complicated .

Well... I think we scared the new guy

Hell is.. hell.. if you try it without knowing anything and expect just a little harder Nightmare ...

But knowing its issues, in special that it is probably better to level up and gear up a little before change Nightmare for Hell, it is not a huge problem
(maybe just some few areas on the last acts that have Immunes that you can't

Dodge ... they can be a pain in the ass with some builds - mainly the

Chaos Sanctuary "mid-bosses" and the Ancients on Act 5)

What level do you think would be safe to pass without major problems? If you can go through hell without any big problems

And thank you for the answer

Once you get to Hell level and start hitting walls left and right with all sorts of immunes, you'd find yourself realizing that the game actually forces you to think how to handle different foes. This is where fun begins.

Ezio009 wrote: 3 months ago

What level do you think would be safe to pass without major problems? If you can go through hell without any big problems

It is not an easy answer

Depends on your build, equipment and playstyle.

But the good news is that you don't need to go full Hell once you start Hell

You can always come back to Nightmare (to gear up and level up more) if you start struggling in some part, and then go back to Hell.

I think it maybe be the "best" advice... try advance your progress in Hell, if you think it is being too hard (if you are dying a lot or taking to much time to kill things), go back to Nightmare for a time.

And can help you read about the builds/equipments for your class and level (maybe you are struggling because you are using a build/equipment that you think is good but is in fact crap - or is only good with equipment that you still don't have...)

When the mobs in TZ Act 4/5 NM couldn't touch you ..yes it's for consideration.