Double Phoenix for fire Sorc?

Hey all. I already have one Sorc build, she's

Hydra /

Frozen Orb hybrid and like her. But this ladder season I wanted to give a try to sunder charms and levelled another Sorc as a pure fire build. She's using fire ball /

Meteor and as gear she has

Tal's armor,

Belt, orb (they provide -15 fire res), Phoenix shield, Flickering Flame

Helm, mage fist, FCR rings with other stats, infernal

Boots. Total she has -56 enemy fire res with sunder charm and easily farms everywhere.

The question is: If I choose to go with another Phoenix as a weapon, which makes it -71 enemy fie res total, does it worth? Can't reach 105 fcr without a Sorc ammu but it won't be a big problem I suppose.

Any one tried that before?

A CS socketed with 6 fire facets provide more dmg while being cheaper.

mockingbirdreal wrote: 2 years ago

A CS socketed with 6 fire facets provide more dmg while being cheaper.

If you mean 5/5 sockets, I don't think it's cheaper right now. You can't buy one for an

Ohm. But thank you for other perspective.

I just have one question, How did you get -71? From what you said

Tal set 3 pieces give you -15 fire res, Phoenix shield -28, Flickering Flame seemed give you -13 which give you - 56 total if my math is right. If you go Phoenix weapon then you lose -15 but gain -28 which you gain -13 in total, that put you into -56 + (-13) = -69, where did that -2 come from then?

If you do go for another Phoenix, then you don't need rest

Tal 2 pieces, do you? 35/13

Skin of the Vipermagi,

Arachnid Mesh, Mage Fist, these 3 give you 70 FCR, now you need get 35 FCR from

Helm, amulet, rings.

basicnecromancy wrote: 2 years ago

mockingbirdreal wrote: 2 years ago

A CS socketed with 6 fire facets provide more dmg while being cheaper.

If you mean 5/5 sockets, I don't think it's cheaper right now. You can't buy one for an

Ohm. But thank you for other perspective.

You can still buy a -5/+3 for

Ist.
That is -30/+18 for 6 facets.

Flyhorse wrote: 2 years ago

I just have one question, How did you get -71? From what you said

Tal set 3 pieces give you -15 fire res, Phoenix shield -28, Flickering Flame seemed give you -13 which give you - 56 total if my math is right. If you go Phoenix weapon then you lose -15 but gain -28 which you gain -13 in total, that put you into -56 + (-13) = -69, where did that -2 come from then?

If you do go for another Phoenix, then you don't need rest

Tal 2 pieces, do you? 35/13

Skin of the Vipermagi,

Arachnid Mesh, Mage Fist, these 3 give you 70 FCR, now you need get 35 FCR from

Helm, amulet, rings.

I believe the OP meant x2 Phoenix + Flickering Flame = 28*2+15 = 71

Flyhorse wrote: 2 years ago

I just have one question, How did you get -71? From what you said

Tal set 3 pieces give you -15 fire res, Phoenix shield -28, Flickering Flame seemed give you -13 which give you - 56 total if my math is right. If you go Phoenix weapon then you lose -15 but gain -28 which you gain -13 in total, that put you into -56 + (-13) = -69, where did that -2 come from then?

If you do go for another Phoenix, then you don't need rest

Tal 2 pieces, do you? 35/13

Skin of the Vipermagi,

Arachnid Mesh, Mage Fist, these 3 give you 70 FCR, now you need get 35 FCR from

Helm, amulet, rings.

Sorry for the miscalculation. I'm, of course, dropping

Tal's pieces when I go to double Phoenix. -56 from them and -15 max from Flickering Flame, which is actually -11 for me. Yes, I can use SotVM as armour and because of Flickering Flame don't have chance to use FCR

Helm.

But main question is: Does it worth to use double Phoenix?

I am sure you don't have any problem running low ppl game, the real question is: are you going to farm 8ppl game? How much increase in damage from 2nd Phoenix are you expecting?
My bad on the head slot, but then you are going to need +15 fcr neck to 105 fcr, also expensive one.

Double Phoenix is never worth it on a sorc.

Even ignoring the fact that you lose massive +skills (which fire scales very well with), to the point of typically lowering your overall damage in the process, Phoenix is just an all-around silly weapon choice.

The only thing it does for a sorc is add -28 res. The aura makes no real difference as you already have it on your shield and higher lvl doesn't change too much there. The absorb usually isn't needed. The def v missile won't be noticed anywhere. And everything else is just pointless.

So basically, you're paying a

Jah, a

Lo and 2

Vex for -28 res.
Even if you assume you can't get 6x 5/5 facets for that price (which isn't true because you can still reliably snag 5/5 fire for around

Vex), you don't have to. Get 2 -4/3 facets and 4 -5/3 facets in a 6-sock weapon for a fraction of the cost and you get the same -28 res but you're actually getting 18% dmg on top of it, making it infinitely more useful than a Phoenix weapon. But even then, it typically isn't worth dropping the skill points for.

Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago

Double Phoenix is never worth it on a sorc.

Even ignoring the fact that you lose massive +skills (which fire scales very well with), to the point of typically lowering your overall damage in the process, Phoenix is just an all-around silly weapon choice.

The only thing it does for a sorc is add -28 res. The aura makes no real difference as you already have it on your shield and higher lvl doesn't change too much there. The absorb usually isn't needed. The def v missile won't be noticed anywhere. And everything else is just pointless.

So basically, you're paying a

Jah, a

Lo and 2

Vex for -28 res.
Even if you assume you can't get 6x 5/5 facets for that price (which isn't true because you can still reliably snag 5/5 fire for around

Vex), you don't have to. Get 2 -4/3 facets and 4 -5/3 facets in a 6-sock weapon for a fraction of the cost and you get the same -28 res but you're actually getting 18% dmg on top of it, making it infinitely more useful than a Phoenix weapon. But even then, it typically isn't worth dropping the skill points for.

Thanks Schnorki. What's your suggestion for the overall gear choice? 3 pieces

Tal's + Phoenix + Flickering Flame is okay or could it be improved somehow?

Flyhorse wrote: 2 years ago

I am sure you don't have any problem running low ppl game, the real question is: are you going to farm 8ppl game? How much increase in damage from 2nd Phoenix are you expecting?
My bad on the head slot, but then you are going to need +15 fcr neck to 105 fcr, also expensive one.

Yes, finding 2 15 is expensive. Thanks for the answers.

Another question: Does Infinity make a real difference for fire Sorc with sunder charm?

basicnecromancy wrote: 2 years ago

Another question: Does Infinity make a real difference for fire Sorc with sunder charm?

Yes. Yes it does.

Not quite as much in the "sunder applied" scenario because it drops down to only being -17 res post-sunder but even that isn't a bad addition and for any non-immune, the -85 res is massive.

For fire, consider Infinity a (VERY significant) damage boost, not something to break immunities with (as opposed to say for a light sorc) as most fire immunes are too high to be breakable with Infinity. It'll never save you from still wanting a sunder..but you do want it on your merc regardless.

Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago

basicnecromancy wrote: 2 years ago

Another question: Does Infinity make a real difference for fire Sorc with sunder charm?

Yes. Yes it does.

Not quite as much in the "sunder applied" scenario because it drops down to only being -17 res post-sunder but even that isn't a bad addition and for any non-immune, the -85 res is massive.

For fire, consider Infinity a (VERY significant) damage boost, not something to break immunities with (as opposed to say for a light sorc) as most fire immunes are too high to be breakable with Infinity. It'll never save you from still wanting a sunder..but you do want it on your merc regardless.

After doing some experiments including FB

Ormus, what I consider as the best set up is Flickering Flame, Mara's, Eschuta, SotVM, Phoenix,

Magefist, Arach, two FCR rings with add ups, Wartraveller with CtA and Spirit in switch. Not really tanky in regards to life boost but doing great. Around 20k FB and 37k

Meteor damage I have. Also FF negates the Sunder effect. It is really helping a lot.

I have a total of -41 EFR and if I could manage to get an Infinity, it'll be -58, which is huge.

Now only thing I'll experiment on is which fire skills are better and quick to use. Or consider, like using

Hydra / FB and adding

Energy Shield.

why not

Eschuta's Temper why this item is so underatted and the fire one doesnt come expensive

apsus wrote: 2 years ago

why not

Eschuta's Temper why this item is so underatted and the fire one doesnt come expensive

Eschuta's sounds better than it is for fire.
The +fire skill dmg is summed with the dmg from

Fire Mastery (rather than multiplying everything) and as such becomes a fairly minor bonus in the end.

It still isn't bad but getting a weapon with solid -res instead (which fire has very little of, comparatively) tends to yield far better results.

apsus wrote: 2 years ago

why not

Eschuta's Temper why this item is so underatted and the fire one doesnt come expensive

I already wrote it down above as final set up with Eschuta.

Schnorki wrote: 2 years ago

apsus wrote: 2 years ago

why not

Eschuta's Temper why this item is so underatted and the fire one doesnt come expensive

Eschuta's sounds better than it is for fire.
The +fire skill dmg is summed with the dmg from

Fire Mastery (rather than multiplying everything) and as such becomes a fairly minor bonus in the end.

It still isn't bad but getting a weapon with solid -res instead (which fire has very little of, comparatively) tends to yield far better results.

Because of that I asked for Phoenix as a weapon but losing + skills can't be compensated, so I gave it up.