Chaos Speedrun Comp

Hey guys,

I was just doing some tinkering and wondered who truly has the fastest clear of Chaos P1. There are many opinions and I'm not convinced Mosaic really has it - even though the damage output is on another level on its own.

I was thinking whether it would be fun to hold a sort of speedrun comp to determine what class, but more importantly - what player is the fastest.

It might be hard to manage rules per se due to map seeds and skipping of targets but if anybody was interested or had some experience and expertise in this area to lend, it might be fun. It could be something like - post 3 runs and the average is your score etc.

We could hold a pot of Jahs and all donate in or something.

Any thoughts, queries or objections welcomed.
Cheers

On Ladder (maybe faster with better gear on non ladder but not more like a few seconds max) with a ES

Nova Sorc 181% mf and 211% mf when act boss die as i swap weapons to cta for when diablo is about to die.

atm i just do seal bosses and kill diablo when i do Chaos/Diablo run

I just did 1 timed run doing this, took me 1 minute and 1 Sec starting from town act4 until diablo died.

Picked up 1 rare amulet and 1

Ral and identified the amulet within the run. (using the time when waiting for diablo to spawn to identify the amulet)

maybe subtract 1 second as i used maybe 1 second to do the /time to see how fast i was.

PS. i think it was a tad slow like 2-4 seconds, first time i timed it too, ill do 1 more and edit the time for next run in here

2nd run nothing picked up took me 56 seconds, and didnt count the time for clicking the /timed again.

i dont know if killing elite packs on the way is worth it, as i do get seal bosses doing the run, and can just do a new run right after for more seal bosses and act boss, so i just skip all i can, sitting on 99

Bul-Kathos' Nightmare on ladder.

Mosaic doesn't even come close.

Mosaic is OP because it annihilates literally everything on P8 in record time with precious little thought ever needing to be given to "safety".
The performance-impacting cost to that however is ramp-up time to get the first round of charges and lower FCR breakpoints for travel speed.
If you're looking to clear a full TZ or even multiple, Mosaic is nigh impossible to beat as the insane clear speed quickly outweighs the ramp-up in those cases and full(er) clears favor kill speed over tele speed.
Additionally Mosaic tends to win the "crap gear" side of the spectrum as they're just insanely cheap to make and then instantly take you to god mode.

If you're looking at max speed clears of a single zone however, focusing solely on the boss and at most certain elite packs, Mosaic doesn't stand a chance as both, ramp-up time and lack of tele speed annihilate it. That's even more true for longer-travel bosses like Meph or

Baal but even CS already gives you a very obvious difference.

What you want there is max tele speed and instant kills.
A barb could get you the tele speed but can't reliably insta-kill entire packs/dia so that leaves you with a sorc.
The tele speed bit is easy enough there and you do have multiple builds that can instantly wreck the seal packs, some of which can also (near) instantly annihilate dia himself.
A

Nova sorc would be the "easy way" to exceptional times as you don't need to aim. But she does take slightly longer on dia so she's not quite the best solution.

Personally, I've snatched multiple community-event speed run wins on a fire sorc (for CS and beyond) as she simply can't be beat for that purpose. You get max tele speeds. You can annihilate literally any pack instantly. And for dia especially, with time to pre-cast, you can wreck him the moment he spawns as well with no additional casts needed. Very few other builds can combine all 3 to pull even and pulling past it is pretty much impossible as there is nowhere left to go beyond "max tele + instant kill". The only downside of a fire sorc is that she actually requires proper aim to not waste time on seal bosses so does offer a bit of a skill

Cap. Though personally, I'd call that an upside more than a downside.

from charackter selcetion screen to charackter selcetion screen, like most spedruns are:
on average >1:10min
I've measured the time about a dozen times.
Blizz sorc with ~450 MF

Keep in mind if you actually want to make this a proper competition with a prize pool, you'll need to run these live with some sort of discord streaming or the like so you can actually track the times correctly.

Otherwise..ya know.."my run times are conveniently 1 second less than the others posted here" *cough*

Schnorki wrote: 1 day ago

Mosaic doesn't even come close.

Yeah I put "Mosaic" in there as a sort of hook, because as soon as I leave it out - people interject with it like nobody ever thought of it being fast. It wouldn't win.

Schnorki wrote: 1 day ago

Personally, I've snatched multiple community-event speed run wins on a fire sorc (for CS and beyond) as she simply can't be beat for that purpose.

Woah, seriously? Grats! Well you must tell me your time so I can see if this is worth doing or to give up right now and admit defeat haha.

Schnorki wrote: 1 day ago

What you want there is max tele speed and instant kills.

I've currently got a build doing pretty solid times without any speedrun tweaking and it's already beating

Nova Sorcs that I have seen (1:30+) and I'm just at 75fcr lol

Schnorki wrote: 1 day ago

Very few other builds can combine all 3 to pull even and pulling past it is pretty much impossible as there is nowhere left to go beyond "max tele + instant kill".

This is really interesting.. AOE has to come into play at the top end

D369 wrote: 21 hours ago

Schnorki wrote: 1 day ago

Personally, I've snatched multiple community-event speed run wins on a fire sorc (for CS and beyond) as she simply can't be beat for that purpose.

Woah, seriously? Grats! Well you must tell me your time so I can see if this is worth doing or to give up right now and admit defeat haha.

No idea. You'd have to find those streams to look it up. Never bothered remembering the times. ^^
Even builds not dedicated to speed runs can clear CS in well under a minute though so 1:30+ sounds rather high. Might have to set up a speed sorc again at some point to get some proper timing.

D369 wrote: 21 hours ago

Schnorki wrote: 1 day ago

Very few other builds can combine all 3 to pull even and pulling past it is pretty much impossible as there is nowhere left to go beyond "max tele + instant kill".

This is really interesting.. AOE has to come into play at the top end

AoE makes it significantly more forgiving and especially for CS, some (minimal) degree of AoE does end up essential.
My fav runs were "full clear" where you basically plowed through A1-4 bosses +

Baal or in some cases A1-4 bosses + Nihl instead. A1, 2 and 3 you can reliably speed-clear with no AoE whatsoever as the bosses are isolated enough. Come CS, you can find yourself in a situation where the trash mobs crowd your seal boss to the point of not being able to tele right on top of it anymore, meaning single target doesn't cut it and you need some AoE to take out everything in that tight group.

Fireball is more than sufficient for that. A5, depending on the run type, Nihl is much the same as CS in that regard,

Baal obv warrants a fair bit more AoE to properly handle the waves instantly.

To be fair time must be measured from

River of Flame as area

Charge times will penalize budget or low end computers but at the same time this decision will penalize sorc telequinesis usage or pali

Vigor aura.

D369 wrote: 21 hours ago

[..] Well you must tell me your time so I can see if this is worth doing or to give up right now and admit defeat haha. [..]

Just went ahead and set up a quick fire sorc to have a look since I can't recall the actual times from back then and you did have me curious.
Ended up with 46, 47 and 45 seconds in 3 runs back to back.
Thought to myself "that...feels really slow".

Then I realized I was still on /P8. ~~
Switched that to P1 and dropped to well below 40 seconds.

That's with being rusty with that build, just giving it a handful of runs with no "getting used to it again", not fully re-optimizing it and all that jazz. Could definitely still shave off more than just a couple seconds there and drop to the low to mid 30s I dare say, if not <30 in a truly perfect run (rough estimate, might be overly ambitious...kinda wish I did recall the lowest I ever got now ^^).
So yeah, anything above 40 seconds is basically insufficient as true speed run times for CS.
Especially if you run it on SP as "isolated" speedrunners generally would as you could then really go for the full 200 FCR and cut the tele times down even further. Personally, I never bother with that though as I don't run anything on SP beyond random testing efforts. So my builds are all built around the assumption of online -> server can't handle 200 FCR without constant desync -> not going above 105.

i dont understand how you can do it this fast, i setup a run where everything is dead and all i have to do is open last seal, i then go to town and start the time /time, hurry to first 2 seals give it 1-2 seconds then

Teleport to next and do the same then to last 2 seals and open the last seal i left, and then wait for diablo to spawn, he dont die instantly, but within 5 seconds, and final time for that is 48 seconds, how would you EVER get under 30 seconds when teleporting there takes more time, i have 200 fcr.

Unless the /time is not working as intended on my pc., didnt use a timer outside of diablo's internal clock, or maybe diablo spawn later for me after opening last seal

Basically i start the timer when in town, use wp to get to river then

Teleport there an hit /time right after diablo die'

Illusions wrote: 12 hours ago

i dont understand how you can do it this fast, i setup a run where everything is dead and all i have to do is open last seal, i then go to town and start the time /time, hurry to first 2 seals give it 1-2 seconds then

Teleport to next and do the same then to last 2 seals and open the last seal i left, and then wait for diablo to spawn, he dont die instantly, but within 5 seconds, and final time for that is 48 seconds, how would you EVER get under 30 seconds when teleporting there takes more time, i have 200 fcr.

Unless the /time is not working as intended on my pc., didnt use a timer outside of diablo's internal clock, or maybe diablo spawn later for me after opening last seal

Basically i start the timer when in town, use wp to get to river then

Teleport there an hit /time right after diablo die'

The diablo spawn time is definitely a pain to wait for and just excruciatingly long when trying to set some sort of personal record. That alone costs you 15 slow, painful, unavoidable seconds every time.
The next biggest item is your

Teleport time. With enough practice and "route Memory" to hit the exact spots needed for seal pop positioning and whatnot, you can get that to ~12 seconds.
Each seal pack takes ~1 second to spawn. However, that spawn time does overlap at least to some extent with

Teleport time, especially in the 2-seal arms, so you're not quite losing all of that spawn time in addition to the tele time noted above. That overlap is ~2 casts per seal arm so 6x cast rate = almost 2 seconds total.
Kill time should be instant-on-cast for all seal bosses which basically means 3x cast rate = ~1 second total. Slightly less totaled with the above if you can successfully pre-cast those (and hence fully overlap the spawn wait). Slightly more if they all spawn "in the wrong place".
Diablo kill time should be instant as well and fully pre-cast, adding 0 seconds there (or 0.1..whatever..however long it takes for the pre-cast killing to hit).
If you include town zone, on a solid rig (just based off of my own loading times), that adds less than .5 seconds.

So in a perfect world, just summing the above, you'd be looking at roughly 15 + 12 + 3*1 + 1 + 0.5 = 31.5 seconds. Or let's round that up to 32 (slightly extended seal spawn) but then say an even 30 as that doesn't account for the tele vs. seal spawn overlap yet.
That's at 105 FCR. Moving to 200 would shave off another ~1.5 seconds in

Teleport alone which would take you to ~28-29 seconds on a perfect run.
Or 27-28, seeing how my "12 seconds" tele time is based on a quick run I just did while out of practice and before my morning coffee and could hence probably also still be improved upon.

Obviously, to ever get that as your actual, real time would require absolutely everything to go your way and you making 0 mistakes on your tele positioning and everything and I have no idea if I personally ever quite managed to pull it off but it should be possible. Albeit potentially only in SP as server performance alone could reliably ruin it for you. Mid 30s is definitely doable fairly reliably though with the right build and enough practice.

Though there are obviously some pitfalls in there that can absolutely kill your time, be it the De Seis seal bugging out again and not activating on click or Vizier spawning a bit offset from where you expected and immediately running over the lava to prevent tele-stomping him to catch back up.

For your run specifically, the way you described it, the seal wait seems like it might be a bit long. Especially since human beings tend to often be somewhat bad at counting seconds in their head. Let's say that's 1 sec off per seal. Then you're losing 5 seconds to dia which should be 0 on a speed-run build. And that lone already takes you down to ~40. And since you're using /time, you're losing probably another second (or two, depending on how fast/slow your fingering is) just to move from "active position" to "chat -> up -> enter". Additionally, /time only has second level precision so you could be losing a hidden almost-a-second just in that as well (could..might also be working in your favor actually, who knows). So those could already take you down to the high 30s which wouldn't be bad by any means. And that's before considering possible (maybe, maybe not, obviously can't judge that from here) improvements to your wp interaction time, town-to-wp load time and

Teleport route.

Schnorki wrote: 13 hours ago

Just went ahead and set up a quick fire sorc to have a look since I can't recall the actual times from back then and you did have me curious.
Ended up with 46, 47 and 45 seconds in 3 runs back to back.
Thought to myself "that...feels really slow".

Then I realized I was still on /P8. ~~
Switched that to P1 and dropped to well below 40 seconds.

SO I don't think we're talking about the same thing. This sounds like Seal Popping and speedrunning from Menu. I am talking about full clears of the map (more or less) from the Chaos Entrance. 1:30 is pretty standard for a fast clearer.

D369 wrote: 1 hour ago

Schnorki wrote: 13 hours ago

Just went ahead and set up a quick fire sorc to have a look since I can't recall the actual times from back then and you did have me curious.
Ended up with 46, 47 and 45 seconds in 3 runs back to back.
Thought to myself "that...feels really slow".

Then I realized I was still on /P8. ~~
Switched that to P1 and dropped to well below 40 seconds.

SO I don't think we're talking about the same thing. This sounds like Seal Popping and speedrunning from Menu. I am talking about full clears of the map (more or less) from the Chaos Entrance. 1:30 is pretty standard for a fast clearer.

Including all of the trash packs down to the last mob without just seal-popping them?
Yeah, definitely not talking about the same thing then.