From reading Reddit, I've gathered, unconvincingly, that bound demons have two "snapshots" that dictate their lives, and for which I'd like to confirm or clarify with you all.
First, there is a snapshot taken upon binding the demon that captures 1) the demon level as the lower of its level and yours (e.g., a T94 Lister bound by a Lvl 92 warlock will become a Lvl 92 Lister), which dictates it's damage and skill levels (e.g., level of Amp Damage from Cursed); 2) the roll of its aura based on this level as mLvl/8--in the example above, the 92/8 Lister gets a Lvl 11 aura; and 3) health snapshot as a combination of Lvl (92 in example above) plus P-modifier, meaning it gets the most health from coming from a P8 game. I believe that is all from the first snapshot, and that becomes its permanent "base stats".
Then comes the second snapshot that happens every time you start a game, where your Demon Skills levels at the start of the game are snapshot onto the demon. E.g., if you start the game with Lvl 31 Bind Demon, then the demon gets the enhancements of Lvl 31 Bind Demon (flat damage + enhanced damage) for the rest of the game. At that point, it doesn't matter if you drop all of your +Demon skills or hit a Skill Shrine, the demon does the same damage **This is what I find most dubious and would like to discuss the mechanics** so, if this "snapshot" were true, gaining a level or equipping/unequipping or Battle Command helps/hurts zilch on your bound demon. That would mean you could load your inventory with +demon skillers at the end of a game and just swap them out for +Chaos or +eldrich skillers at the start of a new game and PRESTO!, super strong demon and super strong warlock.
Is that at all correct? If there is this second snapshot, and the demon isn't altered throughout a game, how does a passive effect like Blood Oath work? Is the passive effect snapshot at the beginning, too? Or does this change with skill level modifications like Battle Command?
Interested in feedback from anyone who knows from a more reputable source. Please correct anything that is false in this post. Thanks!!
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From reading Reddit, I've gathered, unconvincingly, that bound demons have two "snapshots" that dictate their lives, and for which I'd like to confirm or clarify with you all.
First, there is a snapshot taken upon binding the demon that captures 1) the demon level as the lower of its level and yours (e.g., a T94 Lister bound by a Lvl 92 warlock will become a Lvl 92 Lister), which dictates it's damage and skill levels (e.g., level of Amp Damage from Cursed); 2) the roll of its aura based on this level as mLvl/8--in the example above, the 92/8 Lister gets a Lvl 11 aura; and 3) health snapshot as a combination of Lvl (92 in example above) plus P-modifier, meaning it gets the most health from coming from a P8 game. I believe that is all from the first snapshot, and that becomes its permanent "base stats".
Then comes the second snapshot that happens every time you start a game, where your Demon Skills levels at the start of the game are snapshot onto the demon. E.g., if you start the game with Lvl 31 Bind Demon, then the demon gets the enhancements of Lvl 31 Bind Demon (flat damage + enhanced damage) for the rest of the game. At that point, it doesn't matter if you drop all of your +Demon skills or hit a Skill Shrine, the demon does the same damage **This is what I find most dubious and would like to discuss the mechanics** so, if this "snapshot" were true, gaining a level or equipping/unequipping or Battle Command helps/hurts zilch on your bound demon. That would mean you could load your inventory with +demon skillers at the end of a game and just swap them out for +Chaos or +eldrich skillers at the start of a new game and PRESTO!, super strong demon and super strong warlock.
Is that at all correct? If there is this second snapshot, and the demon isn't altered throughout a game, how does a passive effect like Blood Oath work? Is the passive effect snapshot at the beginning, too? Or does this change with skill level modifications like Battle Command?
Interested in feedback from anyone who knows from a more reputable source. Please correct anything that is false in this post. Thanks!!
Description by First, there is a snapshot taken upon binding the demon that captures 1) the demon level as the lower of its level and yours (e.g., a T94 Lister bound by a Lvl 92 warlock will become a Lvl 92 Lister), which dictates it's damage and skill levels (e.g., level of Amp Damage from Cursed); 2) the roll of its aura based on this level as mLvl/8--in the example above, the 92/8 Lister gets a Lvl 11 aura; and 3) health snapshot as a combination of Lvl (92 in example above) plus P-modifier, meaning it gets the most health from coming from a P8 game. I believe that is all from the first snapshot, and that becomes its permanent "base stats".
Then comes the second snapshot that happens every time you start a game, where your Demon Skills levels at the start of the game are snapshot onto the demon. E.g., if you start the game with Lvl 31 Bind Demon, then the demon gets the enhancements of Lvl 31 Bind Demon (flat damage + enhanced damage) for the rest of the game. At that point, it doesn't matter if you drop all of your +Demon skills or hit a Skill Shrine, the demon does the same damage **This is what I find most dubious and would like to discuss the mechanics** so, if this "snapshot" were true, gaining a level or equipping/unequipping or Battle Command helps/hurts zilch on your bound demon. That would mean you could load your inventory with +demon skillers at the end of a game and just swap them out for +Chaos or +eldrich skillers at the start of a new game and PRESTO!, super strong demon and super strong warlock.
Is that at all correct? If there is this second snapshot, and the demon isn't altered throughout a game, how does a passive effect like Blood Oath work? Is the passive effect snapshot at the beginning, too? Or does this change with skill level modifications like Battle Command?
Interested in feedback from anyone who knows from a more reputable source. Please correct anything that is false in this post. Thanks!!
FerociousTerrier
Can be used to make Runewords:
Don't know it it was patched, but when I bound my demon (end of march) it keeps its original level (L96 - bounded a normal Vile Mother in a L96 Cursed Terror Zone - Bind Demon L20+), even my Warlock being L82 at the time (just after I finished Hell)
I can verify that it has L96 because of the AR bonus its Fanaticism give (95% = L12, that requires monster L96+ -> 12*8 = 96)
Cannot easily verify the health or damage bonus to confirm other snapshots...
Aura level is not always level/8, each aura has a formula:
https://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/m ... onus.shtml
I can verify that it has L96 because of the AR bonus its Fanaticism give (95% = L12, that requires monster L96+ -> 12*8 = 96)
Cannot easily verify the health or damage bonus to confirm other snapshots...
Aura level is not always level/8, each aura has a formula:
https://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/m ... onus.shtml
Might (at monlvl/6), Holy Fire (at monlvl/6), Blessed Aim (at monlvl/5), Holy Freeze (at monlvl/7), Holy Shock (at monlvl/8), Conviction (at monlvl/8), and finally Fanaticism (at monlvl/8)
This is super helpful. So among the auras we can get, the ones with real breakpoints will be Might (/6), Fanaticism (/8) and *currently Conviction (/8). I think Fire, Freeze and Shock are more for the Cursed procs than anything.fredkid wrote: 1 day agoDon't know it it was patched, but when I bound my demon (end of march) it keeps its original level (L96 - bounded a normal Vile Mother in a L96 Cursed Terror Zone - Bind Demon L20+), even my Warlock being L82 at the time (just after I finished Hell)
I can verify that it has L96 because of the AR bonus its Fanaticism give (95% = L12, that requires monster L96+ -> 12*8 = 96)
Cannot easily verify the health or damage bonus to confirm other snapshots...
Aura level is not always level/8, each aura has a formula:
https://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/m ... onus.shtmlMight (at monlvl/6), Holy Fire (at monlvl/6), Blessed Aim (at monlvl/5), Holy Freeze (at monlvl/7), Holy Shock (at monlvl/8), Conviction (at monlvl/8), and finally Fanaticism (at monlvl/8)
I'm keen to know if the monster level really stays at Terrorized levels and doesn't drop to character level. That'd be great and reason enough to farm Terror zones for demons (Lister, Dark Lancers, Big fatty [Uldars, whatever they're called]). And means I wouldn't have to grind super hard to hit 96 for next aura breakpoint!
Thanks!
Tip: If you warlock is not L94+, you can create the game with a higher level char, then switch to your warlock. The TZ level will keep the level based on the character that creates the game not your warlock
(at least until the TZ rotates to a new area, then the level of the new TZ will be based on the current owner of the game)
(at least until the TZ rotates to a new area, then the level of the new TZ will be based on the current owner of the game)
Also good to know! However, this is my first and highest character (since ~2003/2004).fredkid wrote: 1 day agoTip: If you warlock is not L94+, you can create the game with a higher level char, then switch to your warlock. The TZ level will keep the level based on the character that creates the game not your warlock
Warlock, Lvl 92, Demon specialized
Druid, Lvl 8, TBD ( Rabies or Fury wolf)
This is how necro's Iron Golem works. It is resummoned at the beginning of each game, using the current skill level. So buffing skill level as much as possible when summoning it for the first time is pointless.FerociousTerrier wrote: 1 day agoThen comes the second snapshot that happens every time you start a game, where your Demon Skills levels at the start of the game are snapshot onto the demon. E.g., if you start the game with Lvl 31 Bind Demon, then the demon gets the enhancements of Lvl 31 Bind Demon (flat damage + enhanced damage) for the rest of the game. At that point, it doesn't matter if you drop all of your +Demon skills or hit a Skill Shrine, the demon does the same damage **This is what I find most dubious and would like to discuss the mechanics** so, if this "snapshot" were true, gaining a level or equipping/unequipping or Battle Command helps/hurts zilch on your bound demon. That would mean you could load your inventory with +demon skillers at the end of a game and just swap them out for +Chaos or +eldrich skillers at the start of a new game and PRESTO!, super strong demon and super strong warlock.
You could swap gear at the end of each game, but it'd be extremely tedious, unless you limited it to the simple weapon swap ('W').
Said that, Battle Command (and other buffs applied to allies) is still useful if applied to the demon (I haven't checked that, but it seems logical).
That settles it. I'll just fill my inventory with +demon skillers every time and swap them with +Chaos skillers after starting new games!
Seems silly that your demon can't benefit from things like skill shrines or skill buffs.
Seems silly that your demon can't benefit from things like skill shrines or skill buffs.
That is a good point. Perhaps Battle Command adds a level to their Aura.Trang Oul wrote: 1 day agoThis is how necro's Iron Golem works. It is resummoned at the beginning of each game, using the current skill level. So buffing skill level as much as possible when summoning it for the first time is pointless.FerociousTerrier wrote: 1 day agoThen comes the second snapshot that happens every time you start a game, where your Demon Skills levels at the start of the game are snapshot onto the demon. E.g., if you start the game with Lvl 31 Bind Demon, then the demon gets the enhancements of Lvl 31 Bind Demon (flat damage + enhanced damage) for the rest of the game. At that point, it doesn't matter if you drop all of your +Demon skills or hit a Skill Shrine, the demon does the same damage **This is what I find most dubious and would like to discuss the mechanics** so, if this "snapshot" were true, gaining a level or equipping/unequipping or Battle Command helps/hurts zilch on your bound demon. That would mean you could load your inventory with +demon skillers at the end of a game and just swap them out for +Chaos or +eldrich skillers at the start of a new game and PRESTO!, super strong demon and super strong warlock.
You could swap gear at the end of each game, but it'd be extremely tedious, unless you limited it to the simple weapon swap ('W').
Said that, Battle Command (and other buffs applied to allies) is still useful if applied to the demon (I haven't checked that, but it seems logical).
I would still like to know more about the "second snapshot" mechanism from the people that test these things and know the math (@schnorki ??), because it could make a huge difference in how to play.
I essentially want to know: if I start a game with 10x +1 demon skillers and then move them to the Stash, will the bound demon's damage remain the same or will it drop?
Imagine starting with an inventory full of skillers and then being able to remove them for farming.
I would also like to know if Blood Oath benefits to your demon are snapshot at the beginning of the game or are dynamic, changing with current levels.
Thanks!
Hmm, I don't think I am tagging correctly on this forum. @Schnorki see if it works this time
You rang? 
The only part I've actively tested for this myself is based on the aura gain/loss (or lack of loss more accurately).
That is if you have say lvl 10 Bind Demon and then equip gear to push it over 20, your bound demon would gain an aura based on the now lvl 20+ bind.
If you then unequip all of that gear again, your Bind Demon drops back down to lvl 10.
If demon stats are fully rerolled on game creation, based on skill level at that time, that means your demon should lose his aura in the next game.
The aura is however preserved for as long you can keep that demon alive.
So based on that, at least with regards to affix attribution, anything based off of gear is preserved from the time of binding the demon, meaning it is absolutely viable to stack as much +demon skill as possible when you bind your demon and then go back to your normal gear from then on out.
What I haven't tested is to what extent that may or may not also apply to bind's +dmg or the passives in the demon tree. Might be the same. Might not. With Blizz, ya never know.
That part is also annoying AF to test properly so you'd more likely than not instead need someone who actually digs through the files and mechanics behind it to figure it out for sure.
The only part I've actively tested for this myself is based on the aura gain/loss (or lack of loss more accurately).
That is if you have say lvl 10 Bind Demon and then equip gear to push it over 20, your bound demon would gain an aura based on the now lvl 20+ bind.
If you then unequip all of that gear again, your Bind Demon drops back down to lvl 10.
If demon stats are fully rerolled on game creation, based on skill level at that time, that means your demon should lose his aura in the next game.
The aura is however preserved for as long you can keep that demon alive.
So based on that, at least with regards to affix attribution, anything based off of gear is preserved from the time of binding the demon, meaning it is absolutely viable to stack as much +demon skill as possible when you bind your demon and then go back to your normal gear from then on out.
What I haven't tested is to what extent that may or may not also apply to bind's +dmg or the passives in the demon tree. Might be the same. Might not. With Blizz, ya never know.
That part is also annoying AF to test properly so you'd more likely than not instead need someone who actually digs through the files and mechanics behind it to figure it out for sure.
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