Melee just got left behind in RoTW

This generation might not know, now that I just turned 40 lol (dangit that must mean I'm old now >.<) but I used to play Diablo/Hellfire and Diablo from 1.08, to 1.10 update, and was an active member on diabloii.net from '04-'2011 till I as well as most walked away since it turned into a huge ad and bot farm. So D2R is an absolute miracle and I'm happy they brought it back. So it's been a long time in the making.

There was a lot of anticipation of "what should be added or improved upon" and I was very happy to purchase RoTW and see a Brand new class that I've played through and beat the game now through hell, and the Uber Ancients and new

Terror Zone design, these have been all good things.

However, now that I've done several different Worlock builds, it's been fun (a little too much like the Necro imo, but still has some interesting skills that are fun)... I've been falling back to my original love which is melee

Werebear/

Werewolf and Barb builds. And the realization over the last month has hit me... there's just really not much added for melee or any of the other styles of play. There was a promise of all these new unique, set, and runeword items, but when you really break it down about 90% of them are Class designated to the Warlock alone. I think the Horizon's

Boots/gloves seem to be the best option, they offer some very UNIQUE %magic resist which I LOVE to see (especially PvP, take that Hammerdins, now we just need sorb). But when you just go down the line, from most of the helms, amulets, rings.. its just caster, caster, caster items, etc. Its like the entire Exansion was designed by a team of Hammerdin, Bone Necro, and Sorc players, most the rings and jewels and helmets, etc. its like whoever designed them was obsessed with making every item some caster item with built-in +/-% facet and Sundering charms.

What's missing? Where are the new Unique javelins, bows, swords, maces, axes, etc. or tweaks to the REALLY garbo items (that were NEVER good, lets be honest, since 25 years ago they even sucked then) like

Corpsemourn,

Steel Carapace, even weapons like

The Grandfather and

Hellrack. Or maybe provide ways to like cube or imbue Uniques, only uniques, to empower them with more stats similar to how you can do with the "crafted"- basically you can only do it once but you can craft Safety, blood, or caster traits imbued onto your uniques, that have probability rolls too... that would seem to add a lot of replay value and give a strong INCENTIVE to use Unique items versus just using Runewords till the end of time, just an idea. But long story short, I feel like many of the other classes and melee builds have been mostly ignored, again I've looked through the new items, I see a couple that might provide some use but most of it is just molded for the new Worlock and maybe a couple of the caster characters, but if you're more on the melee or physical side there's really nothing new for you in RoTW, you're not gonna find like 4-5 new Swords, or an

Axe that has chance to cast corpse exposion, or new aurus, it's just gonna be the same 1.10 like it's always been.

It makes perfect sense that most of the new gear is focused on the new class and very much tailored to the needs of a warlock, seeing how a lot of the old gear simply isn't.

Same way the old gear already includes plenty of pieces specifically tailored towards one of the old classes each.

That said, I would challenge that claim regardless.
There was quite a bit added that really isn't warlock specific but works for multiple/any class(es). And a fair bit of it instantly became BiS for multiple classes/builds. It added some much needed better options for builds that were missing some more proper gear (e.g. Bone necro) and it actually very specifically amplifies the power of tons of melee builds.

Opalvein introducing an ED ring is a decent boost for a few builds. Even more so since it comes with FCR for those Enigma melee/phys builds.
Zerkers in particular got a few new and improved item options.
Phys classes in general benefit MASSIVELY from the new jewel and renewed sunders. Probably more so than any other class/build, simply because they can finally get targets below 95% phys res without having to wait for an amp/decrep proc, opening up all sorts of alternatives. The same is true for magic dmg albeit to a lesser extent specifically for jewels/sunders as they now also get additional gear pieces with -magic res on top of that. Naturally, the same jewels/sunders also help the elemental classes but since they already had tons of -res gear, Infinity, rainbow facets and whatnot, the relative new boost is a lot less for them.

I won't sit here and pretend like melee builds are in any way up to par with the more meta area-clearers but to claim they got left behind in RotW is imo pushing a false narrative. The truth is they got left behind 20some years ago. RotW actually closed the gap at least a little bit for many melee and phys builds. It merely wasn't anywhere near enough to make up for the neglect of old.

That's excluding heralds at least..on those, melee really did get the short end of the stick yet again, seeing how the occasional rare 1-shot

Herald is fairly impossible to

Dodge when your build forces you into melee range to endure that "1-shot or not? Place your bets!"-RNG.

It was expected that the new itens, runewords and etc was planned to the Warlock builds. But I aggree that the game should bring new ways to play, or at least make some melee builds strong again. It's been a while since the meta is basic the same.

Honestly though, there should be buffs to melee items.

Schnorki wrote: 21 hours ago

It makes perfect sense that most of the new gear is focused on the new class and very much tailored to the needs of a warlock, seeing how a lot of the old gear simply isn't.

Same way the old gear already includes plenty of pieces specifically tailored towards one of the old classes each.

Sure, but not 90% of it.

That said, I would challenge that claim regardless.
There was quite a bit added that really isn't warlock specific but works for multiple/any class(es). And a fair bit of it instantly became BiS for multiple classes/builds. It added some much needed better options for builds that were missing some more proper gear (e.g. Bone necro) and it actually very specifically amplifies the power of tons of melee builds.

Like?
You mentioned Bone necro, that and hammers were specifically the builds I said DID benefit from the patch, you're making my point for me.

Opalvein introducing an ED ring is a decent boost for a few builds. Even more so since it comes with FCR for those Enigma melee/phys builds.
Zerkers in particular got a few new and improved item options.

That's a horrible melee ring, I would never run that on any

Werebear, zealot or Zerker build. You need Attack rating boost and/or dexterity like

Raven or a rare ring, or Anghelics.. if you can't hit at least 14k+ AR in hell or PvP good luck hitting anything.
Its just a 40 ed jewel (off weapon, will add very little damage) basically with a tiny +% elemental added.. this is exactly what I was talking about btw, this Obsession with "faceting" every new items with tiny elemental/magic bonuses is odd, it's made by a team of PvP caster players.

Phys classes in general benefit MASSIVELY from the new jewel and renewed sunders. Probably more so than any other class/build, simply because they can finally get targets below 95% phys res without having to wait for an amp/decrep proc, opening up all sorts of alternatives. The same is true for magic dmg albeit to a lesser extent specifically for jewels/sunders as they now also get additional gear pieces with -magic res on top of that. Naturally, the same jewels/sunders also help the elemental classes but since they already had tons of -res gear, Infinity, rainbow facets and whatnot, the relative new boost is a lot less for them.

Players don't need NEW ways to break through the restrictions and resilences of mobs in the game, why I was never a fan of Sunders, in the past you'd come up with ways to use amp damage or hybrid builds or crushing blow/openwounds to make your hero get around it... or god forbid, teamwork, your Orb sorc faces cold immunes so the WW Barb had to step up and save you, but seems the goal now is every

Fireball sorc or Hammer needs to be able to just 1-skill one punch their way through the entire game in Hell.
What we really need are just more DIFFERENT WAYS to play the game in a balanced way, like new weapons like

Azurewrath or

Stormlash, that aren't broken per se, but have unique chance to cast or aura mods, that can synergize with more skills in chance to hit. I don't like these rings that have like a 1 or 2% chance to cast some ability, its like "oh yay, more prebuff items".

I won't sit here and pretend like melee builds are in any way up to par with the more meta area-clearers but to claim they got left behind in RotW is imo pushing a false narrative. The truth is they got left behind 20some years ago. RotW actually closed the gap at least a little bit for many melee and phys builds. It merely wasn't anywhere near enough to make up for the neglect of old.

So you agree, melee builds needed help, and we have a lot of old unique items that could've been tweaked. I just don't think ROtW did literally anything to address any of these, I see a bunch of caster items and no new

Azurewrath or

Stormlash type of weapons with unique abilities to give the other 6 classes anything new to build off.

I don't know, I get why you're defending it, I just think adding new items or even tweaking existing items is like the EASIEST thing to do in a game like this, the labor cost is like NOTHING... you click on the

Steel Carapace item, change it to 30% ctc lvl 26

Iron Maiden, done; Take

The Grandfather, up damage to 300-400% ED, add 50% crushing blow, done;

Hellrack

Crossbow, make its attack speed like 60% and double its damage and elemental damage, done- still nobody will use it even after that tbh lol. But NOBODY will ever use these items, the risk is so little improving it and the probability ppl using some of these even after greating improving them is still low but AT LEAST it'll put them in the realm of possibility, just looking at items like

Steel Carapace, its not even in the realm of possibility to feasibly use it. Like, most normal and nightmare armors are better than this thing that's how bad it is, and developers would rather it get sold to

Charsi for 20 years straight than lift a finger to fix any of these.

JARY wrote: 23 hours ago

However, now that I've done several different Worlock builds, it's been fun (a little too much like the Necro imo, but still has some interesting skills that are fun)... I've been falling back to my original love which is melee

Werebear/

Werewolf and Barb builds. And the realization over the last month has hit me... there's just really not much added for melee or any of the other styles of play. There was a promise of all these new unique, set, and runeword items, but when you really break it down about 90% of them are Class designated to the Warlock alone. I think the Horizon's

Boots/gloves seem to be the best option, they offer some very UNIQUE %magic resist which I LOVE to see (especially PvP, take that Hammerdins, now we just need sorb). But when you just go down the line, from most of the helms, amulets, rings.. its just caster, caster, caster items, etc. Its like the entire Exansion was designed by a team of Hammerdin, Bone Necro, and Sorc players, most the rings and jewels and helmets, etc. its like whoever designed them was obsessed with making every item some caster item with built-in +/-% facet and Sundering charms.

Opalvein
All Resistances +8
+3 Life after each Kill
+40% Enhanced Damage

vs

Blood Ring (win)
All Resistances +11
+3 ll
25 STR + 9 min damage
60 life

Opalvein is 5 high roll

Blood Ring. it lose to 6 perfect affix or 5 + 1 ok roll.

I am not sure about druid. But as for paladin melee(

Zeal/sacrify) , some melee bar build, 1p tz scenario, this class already reach 14300 phy damage , especially paladin, that I am very sure. Increase damage wont help anything at all in pvm. (I dont use it to play uber scenario)

rotw, you get new gloves+

Boots. This save craft story.
new sunder, which reduce phy resistance, but the damage is already enough, makes this no use.
new jewel, - phy resistance,min max damage, same.
new ring affix, oskill sg, break immunity, meaning you dont need to equip sunder anymore but can increase 3 small charm.

Only one scenario that rotw may have little effect, physical immunity blood star witch, even so, it still waste time to kill those.4 hit become 3 hit.

in the end, if you dont use it play very hard scenario, ancient, uber. rotw for physical paladin, bar. is like not happen. Nothing has changed because of this.
But for those soso build before rotw, like boot gloves not craft well, not have good enough 5 affix ring. it will help. just add boot gloves and new jewel, it reach final damage gap.


new o skill is trouble and not smooth play, if target immunity, sunder is hit more , no sunder is skip it save time, with o skill ring, it is good damage but you have to cast ring skill that skip player already start next elite.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree.
Melee has ALWAYS been left behind and has ALWAYS been quite garbage and requiring high end gear to be anywhere close to as powerful as the rest.

Diablo 2 has very little balance to things.

leox wrote: 14 hours ago

this class already reach 14300 phy damage , especially paladin

Can you link a build guide? that's kind of op in my opinion

IamSteve wrote: 6 hours ago

leox wrote: 14 hours ago

this class already reach 14300 phy damage , especially paladin

Can you link a build guide? that's kind of op in my opinion

14300
it is calculate based on max super unique hp and resistance in tz.
This number will be a little bit more than just enough to 2 hit kill high hp monster.

My build is sacrify anti super unique mini boss build, after bo, it is only 990-1100 hp.
In tz, even if you are unable to reach 14300 damage, it might still work. It is slightly over than optimize damage.

In case of rotw, one new jewel will over kill . even if everything else is soso. I have perfect 400 Grief.

They most definitely improved physical characters in RoW.

We now have the ability to do 40-60k physical damage with budget gear, over 100k with specific high-end setups.
They also removed AR, so all our attacks hit.
Plus, they gave us the ability to endlessly use ethereal items, wield any two-hand weapon while also using a shield, and to throw multiple simultaneous copies of our weapon from a cozy distance.
AND, we also have the opportunity to get a special pet that provides an extra aura to the party, never dies, and absorbs most of that damage you rarely take from all that ranged physical fighting.

But seriously - 25-yr Barb player - happy they gave us some new items to play with.
Hoping in the future they make some adjustments or provide further items to make Barbarians viable in P8 aside from trailing the pack horking dead heralds or being loaders for someone's BO.

leox wrote: 5 hours ago

I have perfect 400 Grief.

Noice

Phoenix_00 wrote: 3 hours ago

Plus, they gave us the ability to endlessly use ethereal items, wield any two-hand weapon while also using a shield, and to throw multiple simultaneous copies of our weapon from a cozy distance.
(...)
But seriously - 25-yr Barb player - happy they gave us some new items to play with.

Echoing Strike is a melee build for you?

Most new uniques are not useful for barb or melee in general, only

Dreadfang,

Opalvein and

Protector's Stone