Min Damage or +% Damage on a Jewel

I have 2 jewels. First one has +33% ED. Second one has +13% ED + 13 Min Dmg + 14 Attack Rating. Which one is better on a G Face? (I use an Eth Death on Ettin Axe.)

Depend on the rest of your equipment...
Depending on you weapon base damage (and all your +min/max dmg) and the amount of off-weapon % ed, sometimes 15 max increase your damage more than 40% ed...

Use some calculator like
https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/
to see how each one will affect your total damage

But the jewel with "% ed and max" may trigger the jewel bug
if it is the case... use the other one...
Details of the bug:
post3267256.html#p3267256

Thank you for the reply. It seems my jewel falls into scenario 8, which is bugged . I'll go with +33% ED.

if you use Phase Blade, second one is better, bug or not, 33 ED doesnt work.

33ED is around 12 str or less while 13 min damage stabilize your attack , usually it is equal to 14 -17 str. when use Phase Blade, ED means nothing.


+13% ED + 13 Min Dmg + 14 Attack Rating , is consider equal to 14 min dam
33 ED , I guess it is similar to 4 - 8 min damage.

============

if you use two hand big big weapon, ED better.

Your calculation don't seem right to me

33% ed off weapon is actually equal to 33 str (or 33% dex depending on the weapon)

And the base weapon type do not determine, by itself, if %ed of weapon is better than max

A Grief Phase Blade will have a base damage so high (min average 373) that is probably impossible to get enough %ed off-weapon for 13 max be better...

The 33% ed off weapon will affect the whole weapon damage (increased by weapon self % ed plus any max/min or +dmg on any item)

Consider that you have +560% ed off weapon

+33% ed mean an overall +5% damage increase.

For 13 max to be better your weapon (plus min/max + dmg) average damage must be lower than 130

For example a Phase Blade with 300% ed on itself will have 132 average damage

In these case the 33% ed (off weapon) will increase yor damage more than 13 max

leox wrote: 1 year ago

if you use Phase Blade, second one is better, bug or not, 33 ED doesnt work.

33ED is around 12 str or less while 13 min damage stabilize your attack , usually it is equal to 14 -17 str. when use Phase Blade, ED means nothing.


+13% ED + 13 Min Dmg + 14 Attack Rating , is consider equal to 14 min dam
33 ED , I guess it is similar to 4 - 8 min damage.

============

if you use two hand big big weapon, ED better.

One case where jewel with max are generally better than jewel with %ed are physical bows that stack 3 auras (Might and Concentration/Pride on Merc and Fanaticism/Faith on herself) and put most stat points on Dex, the total %ed off weapon is insane (mine is currently 1313%)

fredkid wrote: 1 year ago

Your calculation don't seem right to me

33% ed off weapon is actually equal to 33 str (or 33% dex depending on the weapon)

And the base weapon type do not determine, by itself, if %ed of weapon is better than max

A Grief Phase Blade will have a base damage so high (min average 373) that is probably impossible to get enough %ed off-weapon for 13 max be better...

The 33% ed off weapon will affect the whole weapon damage (increased by weapon self % ed plus any max/min or +dmg on any item)

Consider that you have +560% ed off weapon

+33% ed mean an overall +5% damage increase.

For 13 max to be better your weapon (plus min/max + dmg) average damage must be lower than 130

For example a Phase Blade with 300% ed on itself will have 132 average damage

In these case the 33% ed (off weapon) will increase yor damage more than 13 max

leox wrote: 1 year ago

if you use Phase Blade, second one is better, bug or not, 33 ED doesnt work.

33ED is around 12 str or less while 13 min damage stabilize your attack , usually it is equal to 14 -17 str. when use Phase Blade, ED means nothing.


+13% ED + 13 Min Dmg + 14 Attack Rating , is consider equal to 14 min dam
33 ED , I guess it is similar to 4 - 8 min damage.

============

if you use two hand big big weapon, ED better.

Grief + damage does not take ED, you will get only ED on base. I tried ED in my previous build, Grief is not work but it is possible to use ED.
Meaning you have to build 2 + min damage in all your charm , +10 in two ring and I am not even sure it will make 40 ED beat max-min 13.

And if you want to know this, you only need to equip fort armor, you will see it is not work.


that is the case of pb, if it build in Berserk Axe , it might be possible to use ED

%ed off weapon do affect Grief +dmg
(It do no shows on screen correctly from what I remember but affects)

That's why most physical build use Grief as BIS (generally more damage that something like a Breath of the Dying ethereal Berserker Axe)

Look at the damage calculation here
Whirlwind Barbarian
https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/or0106fj#9
Smite paladin
https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/jj010638#1

The +400 dmg from Grief is multiplied by all %ed off weapon

leox wrote: 1 year ago

fredkid wrote: 1 year ago

Your calculation don't seem right to me

33% ed off weapon is actually equal to 33 str (or 33% dex depending on the weapon)

And the base weapon type do not determine, by itself, if %ed of weapon is better than max

A Grief Phase Blade will have a base damage so high (min average 373) that is probably impossible to get enough %ed off-weapon for 13 max be better...

The 33% ed off weapon will affect the whole weapon damage (increased by weapon self % ed plus any max/min or +dmg on any item)

Consider that you have +560% ed off weapon

+33% ed mean an overall +5% damage increase.

For 13 max to be better your weapon (plus min/max + dmg) average damage must be lower than 130

For example a Phase Blade with 300% ed on itself will have 132 average damage

In these case the 33% ed (off weapon) will increase yor damage more than 13 max

leox wrote: 1 year ago

if you use Phase Blade, second one is better, bug or not, 33 ED doesnt work.

33ED is around 12 str or less while 13 min damage stabilize your attack , usually it is equal to 14 -17 str. when use Phase Blade, ED means nothing.


+13% ED + 13 Min Dmg + 14 Attack Rating , is consider equal to 14 min dam
33 ED , I guess it is similar to 4 - 8 min damage.

============

if you use two hand big big weapon, ED better.

Grief + damage does not take ED, you will get only ED on base. I tried ED in my previous build, Grief is not work but it is possible to use ED.
Meaning you have to build 2 + min damage in all your charm , +10 in two ring and I am not even sure it will make 40 ED beat max-min 13.

And if you want to know this, you only need to equip fort armor, you will see it is not work.

fredkid wrote: 1 year ago

%ed off weapon do affect Grief +dmg
(It do no shows on screen correctly from what I remember but affects)

That's why most physical build use Grief as BIS (generally more damage that something like a Breath of the Dying ethereal Berserker Axe)

Look at the damage calculation here
Whirlwind Barbarian
https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/or0106fj#9
Smite paladin
https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/jj010638#1

The +400 dmg from Grief is multiplied by all %ed off weapon

leox wrote: 1 year ago

fredkid wrote: 1 year ago

Your calculation don't seem right to me

33% ed off weapon is actually equal to 33 str (or 33% dex depending on the weapon)

And the base weapon type do not determine, by itself, if %ed of weapon is better than max

A Grief Phase Blade will have a base damage so high (min average 373) that is probably impossible to get enough %ed off-weapon for 13 max be better...

The 33% ed off weapon will affect the whole weapon damage (increased by weapon self % ed plus any max/min or +dmg on any item)

Consider that you have +560% ed off weapon

+33% ed mean an overall +5% damage increase.

For 13 max to be better your weapon (plus min/max + dmg) average damage must be lower than 130

For example a Phase Blade with 300% ed on itself will have 132 average damage

In these case the 33% ed (off weapon) will increase yor damage more than 13 max

Grief + damage does not take ED, you will get only ED on base. I tried ED in my previous build, Grief is not work but it is possible to use ED.
Meaning you have to build 2 + min damage in all your charm , +10 in two ring and I am not even sure it will make 40 ED beat max-min 13.

And if you want to know this, you only need to equip fort armor, you will see it is not work.

Go edit jewel, you can see that build 40% ED is 12 minimum damage.

ED apply to pb base and small charms.

Well, it is better than I expected. (20%~6 min damage.)


Also, if you change equipment to fort(300% ED) vs 20 STR+2 skill, it only increase damage a little bit. Zeal increase 400 final damage, which is around 6 min damage. That's why I dont use ED when I play pb Grief. But it still way better than I expect, 20% is match up 6 min damage.

Don't know what exactly calculation you are doing

but

with
Whirlwind Barbarian
https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/or0106fj#9
15 max and 18 min are weaker than even 20% ed

Whirlwind damage
- head with 2 x 40 % ed jewel
Damage per Second: 100,797
- head with 2 x 30 % ed jewel
Damage per Second: 98,679
- head with 2 x 20 % ed jewel
Damage per Second: 96,562
- head with 2 x 18 min jewel
Damage per Second: 95,656
- head with 2 x 15 max jewel (original build)
Damage per Second: 95,101
- head with 2 x 10 % ed jewel
Damage per Second: 94,444
- head with 2 x 8 min jewel
Damage per Second: 93,806

Smite paladin
https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/jj010638#1
15 max is a little weaker than 40% ed

Zeal Damage (max do not affect Smite...)
- head with 40% ed jewel
Damage per Second: 29,435
- head with 15 max ed jewel
Damage per Second: 29,214
- head with 8 min ed jewel
Damage per Second: 29,088

leox wrote: 1 year ago

fredkid wrote: 1 year ago

%ed off weapon do affect Grief +dmg
(It do no shows on screen correctly from what I remember but affects)

That's why most physical build use Grief as BIS (generally more damage that something like a Breath of the Dying ethereal Berserker Axe)

Look at the damage calculation here
Whirlwind Barbarian
https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/or0106fj#9
Smite paladin
https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/jj010638#1

The +400 dmg from Grief is multiplied by all %ed off weapon

leox wrote: 1 year ago

Grief + damage does not take ED, you will get only ED on base. I tried ED in my previous build, Grief is not work but it is possible to use ED.
Meaning you have to build 2 + min damage in all your charm , +10 in two ring and I am not even sure it will make 40 ED beat max-min 13.

And if you want to know this, you only need to equip fort armor, you will see it is not work.

Go edit jewel, you can see that build 40% ED is 12 minimum damage.

ED apply to pb base and small charms.

Well, it is better than I expected. (20%~6 min damage.)

back to original post,

fredkid wrote: 1 year ago

Smite paladin
https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/jj010638#1
15 max is a little weaker than 40% ed

Your are right about max damage, 40% ED is slightly weaker to 15 Max.
But if you went back to original post , if you compare his two jewel in this build, 13 mini damage is better than 33 ED. People consider max-min is because of it can achieve 30 max or 18 min damage and there is no 80 ED in jewel, even if it is 40% ED 9 STR , it is still weaker.

I have no idea what will be if bug happen?

I look bug case

That jewel actually not too bad. if he use pb, that ED just like it is not exist. if not pb, it works not too bad. only half part works (max side)
"Case 8: You socket an item with a %ED/Min Jewel
Example: you have a Diadem with 30% faster run & walk and 3sox, you socket a +40%ed +10min dmg jewel.
Bugged! The %ED only applies to your overall max dmg, not your min dmg."

leox wrote: 1 year ago

if he use pb, that ED just like it is not exist.

https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/jj010638#1
Zeal Damage (Grief Phase Blade)
- Helm with no damage jewel
Damage per Second: 28,731
- Helm with 33% ed jewel
Damage per Second: 29,311
diff = 580 ~= 5.21 hits per second * 444 avg damage * 33% * 72% chance to hit
- Helm with 13% ed 13 min 14 ar jewel (ignoring BUG)
Damage per Second: 29,717 (little better)
- Helm with 13 min 14 ar jewel (ignoring ed - just for comparison)
Damage per Second: 29,222 (little worse)

leox wrote: 1 year ago

back to original post,

fredkid wrote: 1 year ago

Smite paladin
https://maxroll.gg/d2/d2planner/jj010638#1
15 max is a little weaker than 40% ed

Your are right about max damage, 40% ED is slightly weaker to 15 Max.

I said (and calculate) the opposite that you said:
15 Max (29,214) is slightly weaker than 40% ed (29,435) on that Smiter build

Your right about previous two post that I opposite the ed max.
---

I get the reason that min is weaker, it need 2 13 min to beat 2 x 33 ED.

min damage will need 4 to reach max damage.

My build , 1 min damage after 4, is 4.4 ED meaning 10 min = 44ED.

it is similar to smiter build but my build is Sacrifice build or Zeal.

Math....

Whero wrote: 1 year ago

Math....

easiest way is make your build in maxroll and see which better. Before I know that site, I only able to test it with small jewel and guess which better.

Generally speaking for Grief paladin, they are similar. 10 min to 40 ed , average rate for z/sac paladin build.

Their difference is still there, dont just look at average dps.

If you short of 1 bit to kill monster and cant reach there no matter how you adjust str ----> choose max damage, it makes you have chance to kill
if you are rich and can equip two min damage jewel and look for stable good performance kill monster, pb only-----> choose min damage
Look for cost/performance and best for most cases- > ED