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I recently found a Razortail to replace my T-Gods, which I understood was BiS for my Lightning Fury javazon. But I'm not noticing any significant improvement in cow clear speed. Is the difference pretty minor or am I doing something wrong?
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I recently found a Razortail to replace my T-Gods, which I understood was BiS for my Lightning Fury javazon. But I'm not noticing any significant improvement in cow clear speed. Is the difference pretty minor or am I doing something wrong?
Offers of perfect amethysts, Hel runes, tokens, and keys are also welcome.
The reason for using Razortail is the 33% Pierce.
This allows you to spend fewer points in Pierce (possibly as low as 1 point with enough +Skills) yet still have 100% piercing.
Those skill points can then be spent elsewhere.
This allows you to spend fewer points in Pierce (possibly as low as 1 point with enough +Skills) yet still have 100% piercing.
Those skill points can then be spent elsewhere.
Farm everything. Wreck Ubers.
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The only reason T-gods is relevant if you are satisfied with your current Pierce level %
"I gave my children a world & the strength to make it their own
And all I have to show for it...is YOU ! FIGHT! SEVER THE BOND~!!" -Blessed Mother
Razortail + 1 Skill point in Pierce + 8 or more "plus skill" = 100% Pierce 
L8 = 65% (98% with Razortail)
L9 = 69% (102% with Razortail)
Each extra "plus skill" reduce the Razortail effective bonus.... but is not possible to reach 100% without Razortail (or Wisdom, but in the end you will want Griffon's Eye or a "plus skill" Helm
)
L8 = 65% (98% with Razortail)
L9 = 69% (102% with Razortail)
Each extra "plus skill" reduce the Razortail effective bonus.... but is not possible to reach 100% without Razortail (or Wisdom, but in the end you will want Griffon's Eye or a "plus skill" Helm
)
Doing some thinking, I don't know if the change worth 
In my case Thundergod's Vigor will give me around +10% dmg (and 3 more Bolts), and my Pierce with go from 100% to 77%
In a dense area almost always there will be someone behind the main target to trigger a second "explosion".
So considering only 1 Pierce, 1 attack will do 200% (100% + 100%) damage with Razortail, but will do 194.7% (110% + 110% * 0.77) with Thundergod's Vigor
And when you consider the chance of a 2nd or 3rd Piercethe difference is bigger (100% and 100% x ~60% and ~46%)
But if you are already killing almost everything with the first "explosion" ... the extra Pierce % will not make much difference to you anyway, so that +10% dmg will be better...
In my case Thundergod's Vigor will give me around +10% dmg (and 3 more Bolts), and my Pierce with go from 100% to 77%
In a dense area almost always there will be someone behind the main target to trigger a second "explosion".
So considering only 1 Pierce, 1 attack will do 200% (100% + 100%) damage with Razortail, but will do 194.7% (110% + 110% * 0.77) with Thundergod's Vigor
And when you consider the chance of a 2nd or 3rd Pierce
the difference is bigger (100% and 100% x ~60% and ~46%)But if you are already killing almost everything with the first "explosion" ... the extra Pierce % will not make much difference to you anyway, so that +10% dmg will be better...
100% Pierce will trigger as many "explosions" as pierced enemies with your Javelin.
Trust me, this is what you want as javazon in a dense area like cow level.
Trust me, this is what you want as javazon in a dense area like cow level.
My timezone is CET/UTC+1.
IMO thundergods is WAY better than the razors. I use it with my java, is awesome.
Quick update. I didn't have enough points into Pierce. Only had like 78% Pierce even with Razortail. After an adjustments, including an Enigma for better positioning, 100% Pierce and only hitting huge packs of cows, it's not even close. Razortail destroys Thundergod's Vigor for density clearing. Still love T-Gods, but it's got a different use on my pally now.
Offers of perfect amethysts, Hel runes, tokens, and keys are also welcome.
I would agree. There's no way around the benefit of the + 6 to skills and the +20 strength helps with equipping a Monarch, the rest is extra. The +20 to lightening absorb offsets the Sunder charm. Giving up all that for 33% Pierce is not even close to worth it for me.luizgeo wrote: 2 years agoIMO thundergods is WAY better than the razors. I use it with my java, is awesome.
The lightning absorb/max light res alone makes TGs worth losing a bit of Pierce. Then its +3 for the main skill, 20 STR which translates into 60 Life and 20 VIT (another 60 Life).
I have 80% Pierce, that's enough to go rampage even in P8 games.
I have 80% Pierce, that's enough to go rampage even in P8 games.
I am going to candidly disagree with a handful in this post. Razortail (pierce) > TGods up and down the field.Azmenar3764 wrote: 2 years agoI recently found a Razortail to replace my T-Gods, which I understood was BiS for my Lightning Fury javazon. But I'm not noticing any significant improvement in cow clear speed. Is the difference pretty minor or am I doing something wrong?
Pierce is far more important than any +Skill DPS from T-Gods. This has been tested multiple times to compare or contrast the two. Razortail helps you get to 100% pierce far more quickly which provides a force multiplier especially in large clearing zones.
Now, with that said, if you wanted to rock a Wisdom over a +2 Valkyrie Helm let's say, then sure, wear Wisdom +TGods. But the combination of a +2 Valkyrie + Razortail through early progression dominates T-Gods setup.
Agree completely this has been tested comprehensively.Th3ory wrote: 2 years agoI am going to candidly disagree with a handful in this post. Razortail (pierce) > TGods up and down the field.Azmenar3764 wrote: 2 years agoI recently found a Razortail to replace my T-Gods, which I understood was BiS for my Lightning Fury javazon. But I'm not noticing any significant improvement in cow clear speed. Is the difference pretty minor or am I doing something wrong?
Pierce is far more important than any +Skill DPS from T-Gods. This has been tested multiple times to compare or contrast the two. Razortail helps you get to 100% pierce far more quickly which provides a force multiplier especially in large clearing zones.
Now, with that said, if you wanted to rock a Wisdom over a +2 Valkyrie Helm let's say, then sure, wear Wisdom +TGods. But the combination of a +2 Valkyrie + Razortail through early progression dominates T-Gods setup.
T-Gods is better for an Infinity self-wielding Spear zon, but wouldn’t even consider for LF.
This - tested to empirical nearly irrefutable levels.
But as I called out, and M1ck astutely noted, TGods very much has a place in multiple frameworks, but if your core function is an LF Zon for massive AoE and clear speed, you are going Razortail without question.
Further context:
- A throw can pierce 4x; when you guarantee this 100%, it exponentially increases your damage. The lower your probability, you have a degrading dilution effect.
Pierce = Force Multiplier
Only hard skill points counts for synergies, so the Lightning Strike bonus is useless for the Lightning Fury skill and vice-versa.Th3ory wrote: 2 years ago- Consider that TGods is +3 to LF, and then +3 to LS which is only 1% synergy increase in overall damage
precisely and duly noted; small oversight on my end rushing through a response. Further reason why for an LF zon you aren't using T-Gods.fredkid wrote: 2 years agoOnly hard skill points counts for synergies, so the Lightning Strike bonus is useless for the Lightning Fury skill and vice-versa.Th3ory wrote: 2 years ago- Consider that TGods is +3 to LF, and then +3 to LS which is only 1% synergy increase in overall damage
That's the thing. When running high density mobs such as Cows the mechanics strongly favor Razortail. Pierce works on physical attacks in a straight line so when you fire a Javelin into a mob with 100% Pierce it will hit and pass through everything along its path, and each strike will split into additional Lighting Bolts. The downside is that in runs where there are no lined up mobs to catch your javelins, which is a large chunk of the game, Thundergods works better. Before I added a Phoenix runeword shield T-Gods was a necessity when running some areas TZ WSK because of Black souls, now Razortail is all I need.Azmenar3764 wrote: 2 years agoQuick update. I didn't have enough points into Pierce. Only had like 78% Pierce even with Razortail. After an adjustments, including an Enigma for better positioning, 100% Pierce and only hitting huge packs of cows, it's not even close. Razortail destroys Thundergod's Vigor for density clearing. Still love T-Gods, but it's got a different use on my pally now.
T-Gods is best in the game for lightning mitigation so to your point, if you are running certain areas of survivability danger, you may want to alter your build model.
In the end, on single target monsters, you are using Charged Strike vs. Lightning Fury so you could make the objective comment that for majority of clearing, leaving Razortail on vs. constant swapping makes more sense. it seem this is the logical conclusion you landed on with your Phoenix build.
Worth noting that T-Gods does not any any buff to Charged Strike dmg.
True on single targets Charged Strike works better. My point is that Pierce only works on physical attacks in a straight line (all lined up in row) along the same trajectory. It's not that effective in a less dense scattered mob where there is nothing directly behind the target.Th3ory wrote: 2 years agoT-Gods is best in the game for lightning mitigation so to your point, if you are running certain areas of survivability danger, you may want to alter your build model.
In the end, on single target monsters, you are using Charged Strike vs. Lightning Fury so you could make the objective comment that for majority of clearing, leaving Razortail on vs. constant swapping makes more sense. it seem this is the logical conclusion you landed on with your Phoenix build.
Worth noting that T-Gods does not any any buff to Charged Strike dmg.
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