Breath of the Dying vs Obedience?

I have a A2 merc with Obedience in ethereal Cryptic Axe. Pretty happy with his tank capabilities. Pure damage, FHR, Crushing blow. Dont care much about the rest.
His damage is about 3k - 13k on the field with Concentration.
I was wondering to make a test with BotD. Could BotD be better for pure damage?
Anyone has experience on this?


Thanks for your opinions.

The life stolen per hit is a big selling point for me when it comes to Obedience vs. Breath of the Dying. It enables you to get Cure on your mercenary while Obedience forces you to get LL from some other item, preferable Andariel's Visage. Cure provides reduced curse duration which is, imo, a high comfort benefit. 60% IAS is also big on merc as it enables you to reach certain breakpoints, depending on base of course.

I would nearly always take BotD over Obedience as survivability is more important than damage on merc imo. BotD provides better survivability due to LL and IAS. CB on Obedience doesn't leech. In terms of raw damage, they are quiet comparable i suggest, tho

Eth reaper's toll>

Ebotd is certainly an excellent weapon, but is in a weird spot for a merc.

Tons of added stats do not impact a lot a merc and usually you want your a2 merc's weapon to provide something you cannot get otherwise:
- Conviction for Infi
- Méditation for Insight
- Crushing Blow for Obedience
- Decrepify for Reaper
- Concentration for Pride
Etc.

Still it's a good overall runeword (love it on an a1 merc as for myself, tons of leech, ias...), but seems very expensive for a not-that big difference compared to a good old Insight.

Remember that Survivability is cool, but if the merc does nothing you can also leave him at home

Accepting your premise (that you only care about "pure damage") I think the short answer is "yes BotD is probably better".



For the longer answer I think @blubbalutsch has a very good point about the life-leach on BotD, and that it will affect helmet options.
To make a fair comparison we're therefore probably better off looking at a combination of weapon + Helm for both options.

Andariel's Visage with a 15 IAS / 30 Fire res jewel should be a fair pick for "best option" to combine with Obedience however, if you truly only want "pure damage" then Cure probably isn't the right option to combine with BotD. Instead I'd suggest running the comparison using a G-Face socketed with an Um-rune.

Ignoring the irrelevant (or near-irrelevant) stats that should give:

Offcourse we haven't looked at armor, but that shouldn't change things much. Unlike helmets (where one needs life-leach and the other doesn't) both combinations can more or less use all the same armors just as good as each other. There are only some niche instances that seem to get affected.
If the armor has all resist (like Duriel's Shell or Fortitude) then the socket in the Helm is freed up. It's freed up for both options however, since Obedience is allready getting 15 IAS from that socket it's not benefitting that much from having the socket freed up. If you instead put a 40/15 jewel in the Helm, or a Cham-rune that will work better for BotD option.
If you use Guardians Angel that will be better for Obedience. The all res that was previously just over-capping from Obedience can now be put use, and you can socket the armor with whatever you like. The BotD option will need to socket the armor with another Um-Rune.
-So minor advantages to either side, depending on what armor you pick, but shouldn't be enough to change the result much (but the typical "damage-option" aka Fortitude does favor BotD).

Goggen wrote: 3 years ago

Accepting your premise (that you only care about "pure damage") I think the short answer is "yes BotD is probably better".



For the longer answer I think @blubbalutsch has a very good point about the life-leach on BotD, and that it will affect helmet options.
To make a fair comparison we're therefore probably better off looking at a combination of weapon + Helm for both options.

Andariel's Visage with a 15 IAS / 30 Fire res jewel should be a fair pick for "best option" to combine with Obedience however, if you truly only want "pure damage" then Cure probably isn't the right option to combine with BotD. Instead I'd suggest running the comparison using a G-Face socketed with an Um-rune.

Ignoring the irrelevant (or near-irrelevant) stats that should give:

Stat	BotD option	Obedience option	Result
Enhanced damage on weapon	375 (average)	370	Very slight advantage to BotD, but essentially equal
IAS	60	35	Huge win to BotD. Given how equal everything else is this one alone seems to win it for BotD
Crushing Blow	35	40	Very slight advantage to Obedience, but essentially equal
Deadly Strike	15	0	Another win for BotD. Somewhat substansive
Strength	45	37,5 (average)	Very slight advantage to BotD, but essentially equal
life-leach	13,5 (average)	9 (average)	Slight advantage to BotD, but quite close. Also not really affecting damage.
Faster hit recovery	30	40	Generally this is actually equal, resulting in the same breakpoint being reached. With some armors there is a chance for a very slight advantage to Obedience
Resists	15 all res	27,5 all res (average)	Total resist will depend on the lvl of the mercenary. For High lvl's then 15 all res will get you to max, and the extra from Obedience is just wasted because of the Cap. For lower lvl's Obedience has an advantage, but quite small (unless we're talking REALLY low lvl).
Other stuff	30 dex, 30 vit +200% damage to undead and prevent monster heal	10 dex, lvl 21 Enchant, 200-300 defense, +2 all skills and +10 max poison resist	These things are kinda hard to compare, but probably not enough to swing it either way

Offcourse we haven't looked at armor, but that shouldn't change things much. Unlike helmets (where one needs life-leach and the other doesn't) both combinations can more or less use all the same armors just as good as each other. There are only some niche instances that seem to get affected.
If the armor has all resist (like Duriel's Shell or Fortitude) then the socket in the Helm is freed up. It's freed up for both options however, since Obedience is allready getting 15 IAS from that socket it's not benefitting that much from having the socket freed up. If you instead put a 40/15 jewel in the Helm, or a Cham-rune that will work better for BotD option.
If you use Guardians Angel that will be better for Obedience. The all res that was previously just over-capping from Obedience can now be put use, and you can socket the armor with whatever you like. The BotD option will need to socket the armor with another Um-Rune.
-So minor advantages to either side, depending on what armor you pick, but shouldn't be enough to change the result much (but the typical "damage-option" aka Fortitude does favor BotD).

Woa, thank you all for so complete analyses, comparison listings and tables. Things you have pointed out, specially survivability I also consider important, but given LL is a more common choice, it has direct correlation to pure damage I think...
Just for note, my merc armor is Fortitude and current head piece is Andariel's Visage.
And I was planning to keep going to BotD and make tests with Gface, but I also liked the Cure suggestion cause I find the curses and poisons really annoying.
Well, If we get the gear, the fun part is worth the test.

Thanks again

YugoHell wrote: 3 years ago

I have a A2 merc with Obedience in ethereal Cryptic Axe. Pretty happy with his tank capabilities. Pure damage, FHR, Crushing blow. Dont care much about the rest.
His damage is about 3k - 13k on the field with Concentration.
I was wondering to make a test with BotD. Could BotD be better for pure damage?
Anyone has experience on this?


Thanks for your opinions.

The choice of weapon for your merc also depends on the build you're pairing him with. If for instance it's a Paladin with Fanaticism. So what other skills are you adding to the mix?

I also use an Eth CA Obedience and LOVE having my act 2 merc use it along with an Eth AP fort, and a nice Eth Cure Helm too.

Just a note that I have built an BotD (it came with 379 ED, 15% LL). I really liked to use it with ACT2 merc. With Andy Visage, it reaches 80% IAS and 25% LL. The merc turned into a little terminator with Jab machinegun and green fireworks. And he dies much less often, too. When he gets close to mobs, they seem to melt down.

YugoHell wrote: 3 years ago

Just a note that I have built an BotD (it came with 379 ED, 15% LL). I really liked to use it with ACT2 merc. With Andy Visage, it reaches 80% IAS and 25% LL. The merc turned into a little terminator with Jab machinegun and green fireworks. And he dies much less often, too. When he gets close to mobs, they seem to melt down.

Unless you made it into an Eth War Pike (where 80ias nets you another breakpoint compared to 75) gface@ias should be better.