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Description

I think that when it comes to the weakness of the physical bow damage without synergies that Blizzard North was being careful about the ranged damage synergy between the Necromancer and the Amazon where say the Amazon and the Necromancer could just team up and too easily and safely steam roll the game. One thing that might have been a significant factor in preventing the physical bowazon buff was the fact that the Amazon receives 3 life per vitality point with defensive abilities that are typically optimal on squishy cannons that have 2 life per vitality point and so the combined safety of practically playing a tanky cannon from afar with a Necromancer that immensely buffs your damage output is a proportional disaster.

I get a sense by the Pattern of the game design that you could make a comparison between Physical Bowazon and Sorceress Ice element where you could say that the
Pierce
of
Cold Mastery
+ the effect of cold just blew the physical damage bowazon out of the water. I think you can get a sense of a viable comparison between the two because as
Magic Arrow
would say achieve a
Conversion
of 20% physical to magical damage when maxed out, it is really just like saying "Phyiscal Damage Pierced by 20%".

If the cold skills of the bowazon had a cold damage
Pierce
like the sorceress, it would be a different story in terms of what the problem would be. We'd recognize that the Amazon would somehow need to drop down to 2 life per vitality point for that to be proportionally fair and proper.

I'm going to propose that the new synergy buffs to physical bowazon are not too strong for the Amazon as an individual but are too much for team play, especially with a Necromancer ally, but also that the Physical Bowazon needs more commitment in the overall build if she stays at 3 life per vitality point all the time.

Solution: Remove current physical bow synergies. The physical bow skills now receive a synergy from
Magic Arrow
that reduces enemy physical resistance for these skills that achieves a maximum damage that is equal to the physical bow synergies that are currently in the game.

The physical bowazon build just ends up requiring an additional skill investment, but that's ok because after
Valkyrie
, where were the points going to go in a physical bow build? EZ PZ
Decoy
?

The physical damage
Pierce
will also hit the limit with Necro Amp preventing a disproportion of power.

There's a reason why Amazon cold bow skills don't
Pierce
cold resist, just as there is a reason why the physical bow build should be a progressive 5 skill investment for the long term to be different from bow elements.

Just like all the Metal Bands are still trying to catch up to Meshuggah,

We're still all trying to catch up to Blizzard North.
Description by ArchSeaWitch
5

Can be used to make Runewords:

7
I think that when it comes to the weakness of the physical bow damage without synergies that Blizzard North was being careful about the ranged damage synergy between the Necromancer and the Amazon where say the Amazon and the Necromancer could just team up and too easily and safely steam roll the game. One thing that might have been a significant factor in preventing the physical bowazon buff was the fact that the Amazon receives 3 life per vitality point with defensive abilities that are typically optimal on squishy cannons that have 2 life per vitality point and so the combined safety of practically playing a tanky cannon from afar with a Necromancer that immensely buffs your damage output is a proportional disaster.

I get a sense by the Pattern of the game design that you could make a comparison between Physical Bowazon and Sorceress Ice element where you could say that the
Pierce
of
Cold Mastery
+ the effect of cold just blew the physical damage bowazon out of the water. I think you can get a sense of a viable comparison between the two because as
Magic Arrow
would say achieve a
Conversion
of 20% physical to magical damage when maxed out, it is really just like saying "Phyiscal Damage Pierced by 20%".

If the cold skills of the bowazon had a cold damage
Pierce
like the sorceress, it would be a different story in terms of what the problem would be. We'd recognize that the Amazon would somehow need to drop down to 2 life per vitality point for that to be proportionally fair and proper.

I'm going to propose that the new synergy buffs to physical bowazon are not too strong for the Amazon as an individual but are too much for team play, especially with a Necromancer ally, but also that the Physical Bowazon needs more commitment in the overall build if she stays at 3 life per vitality point all the time.

Solution: Remove current physical bow synergies. The physical bow skills now receive a synergy from
Magic Arrow
that reduces enemy physical resistance for these skills that achieves a maximum damage that is equal to the physical bow synergies that are currently in the game.

The physical bowazon build just ends up requiring an additional skill investment, but that's ok because after
Valkyrie
, where were the points going to go in a physical bow build? EZ PZ
Decoy
?

The physical damage
Pierce
will also hit the limit with Necro Amp preventing a disproportion of power.

There's a reason why Amazon cold bow skills don't
Pierce
cold resist, just as there is a reason why the physical bow build should be a progressive 5 skill investment for the long term to be different from bow elements.

Just like all the Metal Bands are still trying to catch up to Meshuggah,

We're still all trying to catch up to Blizzard North.
7
User avatar

Necrarch 1863Moderator

Necromancer Europe PC
I don't say the idea is not interesting, but Blizz does not take community feedback into account on D2R except if you're a popular streamer...

Image

Main: Necromancer / Second: Assassin / Third: Amazon / Check my stash and my crafts including my caster belts :), and my many cheap
Annihilus
/ Accepting payment in L or NL currency though I only play NL
7
OP
Necrarch wrote: 1 year ago
I don't say the idea is not interesting, but Blizz does not take community feedback into account on D2R except if you're a popular streamer...
Tell you what... You give me your top 3, hell even just top 2 examples of viable feedback/criticism of D2R and I will give it a thorough digest and evaluation of what it means on a small scale level and on a large scale level, especially relative to the Naïve and Trinity Realistic perception that the game design has always leaned towards in favor of Blizzard North's vision as opposed to Modern Blizzard's vision. And if I determine that there is a worthy point that's being suspiciously neglected, I will explain why, and you can take that explanation to the Blizzard forums and tell them that ArchSeaWitch sent you.... They WILL listen and it won't be a matter of choice, especially to the worthy suggestion on this thread with the insane consideration that it hasn't already been suggested which would indicate how far the community and modern Blizzard would be off the original and proper identity/direction of the game, or that Blizzard intends to funnel people out of Diablo 2 and in to Diablo 3/4 by cutting identity corners. They will learn the hard way that 2 wrongs does not make a right and that even if alignments such as these are miraculously accidental, you don't sweep the situation under the rug in a manner that would be to a deceptive advantage.
7
User avatar

Necrarch 1863Moderator

Necromancer Europe PC
You can check this :

forums/patch-2-7-update-recommendations-t1352024.html

And this :

forums/things-you-d-change-about-the-ga ... 22490.html

Lots of ideas in those threads. Some certainly better than others, but definitely worth reading for the Blizzard team as there is quite a reflexion and experienced players in this.

Image

Main: Necromancer / Second: Assassin / Third: Amazon / Check my stash and my crafts including my caster belts :), and my many cheap
Annihilus
/ Accepting payment in L or NL currency though I only play NL
7
OP
The one thing that stands out to me so far in those suggestions is disabling the hostile ability in a game. This is actually a much bigger failure then everyone thinks and I'll explain why.

I'm 38 years old as of today and I've been playing since 2001, possibly earlier, and the guy who is my primary companion on D2R is at least a decade older than me, legally blind and wears hearing aids. We both play hardcore and I've worked hard on figuring out a progressive path through the game and up the difficulty tiers that anyone with a brain can successfully apply and so long as one has that back up or backbone hero to fallback on that hasn't died then it will leave you with enough motivation to keep going. I try to convince him to do a barbarian or amazon to start but those are not the heroes he likes. He loves druid, necromancer, sorceress. I don't think it would matter if he started with barbarian or amazon though because I'm the one who's usually carrying the heroes that he likes to play with my Zon or Barb by passing over lower level items that I have no use for.

This guy dies. And dies a lot. He will once and a while successfully make it to higher 70s in level on nightmare baals runs but this is where he tends to always eventually die if he keeps going because some ahole will join the game and go hostile and travel to him and kill him. That is seriously how deaf and blind this guy is. He has repeatedly died over and over and over again despite me explaining to him how to identify dirty tps and listen for the hostility sound. But he's not successfully hearing the sound, and definitely not seeing the hostility warning. I bet you anything that this guy has repeatedly died and got back up to level 25 more than anyone on the entire server. He's a real trooper. But the problem is that of the people that the pkers are pking, this guy is just pure food for them and is definitely a driving factor that's keeping the pker appetite alive.

I'd like to believe that he's building himself up and getting better after each Death but things haven't gotten any better. I wouldn't say they've really gotten any worse but it's not surprising considering how bad it really is.

Sure, Blizzard and/or the community could argue that this game is called "Diablo" so there's going to be some "playing of the Devil's advocate" going on. But at this point and upon proper and full investigation the "Diablo's Advocate" approach and more than crossed the line. But even as it has and really has always pushed on and ultimately crossed the line, there's no real excuse. If we would have had clan support then this poor dude would be enjoying Diablo 2 just as much as he ever did. There's no reason for this step backwards for him.

Solution: We either need the old clan support and channels like we used to have or we need the option to disable hostility in the game. Plain and Simple.

The Devil's advocate approach is generating excessive toxicity on top of a root problem that's speculatively manifesting an eventual cataclysm of toxicity and before embracing the devil's advocate, this problem needs to be solved even though there's no excuse as it is.

The rest of the proposed changes that I read about at those links seemed to be mostly quality of life changes.

One could argue that describing these changes as "quality of life changes" is a bad way to put it. Diablo 3 is more like your Quality of Life Diablo that crosses in to console appreciation but Diablo 2 is not your Quality of life game. It's a P.C. game first and foremost. Full utilization of the keyboard and mouse ends up as a complex yet still a quality experience once you master them.

People have to come together and determine what restrictions in the game actually make it better overall. If we know that the restrictions and liberations are not weighing out evenly and establishing an identity between them then there is a problem.

So a lot of these suggestions I see are just quality of life changes. I see some interesting progressive ideas starting to seed in the lot of them such as stat ranges on items provided, where I would say that ilvl of items provided before identifying them would probably help move the trading/economy of the game. I personally think it would be interesting if you could sell/spend gems at vendors for guaranteed rare rolls of a random item from his gambling page flop. Would make the experience both more progressive and surprising and motivating in a fun way as opposed to just straight addicting I would like to think.

The psn and fire potions being used by a hero with skills to enhance them would be interesting but I would think that the opportunity there would mostly be from the apparent 2 missing hero archetypes in the game that would squeeze the most out of the trinity fractal, but if those heroes and skills were in the game then there would be the opportunity for more runewords and perhaps runewords that have some of those skills where most heroes could have access to them.

The final type of change that I see out of the list I would describe as "identity crisis changes". Like
Teleport
on Enigma needing a 5 second cooldown. I don't think that this would necessarily solve any kind of problem or even the root problem. First and foremost it's not that Enigma is the problem, it's that other heroes are better at mfing to be able to afford Enigma faster than other heroes. A lot of this is going to come back to complaints about the Barbarian, even more than the Sorceress or Paladin. I hate to say it but the Barbarian is a super hero comparatively, always has been, always will be. Skills like
Find Item
and
Berserk
and
Leap
are pretty decent factors that contribute to the issue. I don't identify the situation as a problem as much as I do an issue and a doomed identify crisis but since when has there not been a doomed identity crisis with anything?

The barbarian leaping to bosses safely on hardcore can be more useful than a sorc in early stages. The question and dilema seems to be "How can we get the other heroes to be a little more as capable as the barbarian and in their own way" or if that is not the answer then it seems to be that that is what
Terror
Zones were suppose to help fix but I'm not seeing what this does for the other heroes while dampening down the barb.

One could almost make a point or argument that all of the non barbarian heroes that are not using a significant pet such as a Shadow or
Valkyrie
or Golem should be able to hire as many as two DIFFERENT mercenaries so that way you could, in theory, deck the ranged merc(if that's what it is) out with mf which you could let finish enemies off with last hits. I feel like this would conflict with the new "Druid Zoo" which would actually be good because it would show that the druid has gone in the wrong direction when things would have been just fine with an additional merc. I think the positives outweigh the negatives on this idea overall. You have mfing on non barb heroes that can actually compete with the barb and it opens up more opportunities for useful drops in the building of your crew's overall load out.
7
User avatar

mhlg 1076

Americas PC
The physical bow skills now receive a synergy from
Magic Arrow
that reduces enemy physical resistance for these skills
.

Please post offer in item trade before adding me on Bnet
7
OP
And multi-shot,
Guided Arrow
and
Strafe
receive no synergy bonuses from
Magic Arrow
neither and that is the chief complaint.
7
User avatar

mhlg 1076

Americas PC
ArchSeaWitch wrote: 1 year ago
And multi-shot,
Guided Arrow
and
Strafe
receive no synergy bonuses from
Magic Arrow
neither and that is the chief complaint.
I'm not sure why that's needed. A Bowazon can already do an enormous amount of physical damage, especially with a Faith and
Windforce
. I have a build that has a perfect Faith and
Windforce
. To enhance the build I use Atama's Scarab for its
Amplify Damage
which takes down mobs, and breaks physical immunity. To that I also have a -10%
Bone Break
. The only hassle is with physical immunity and stoneskin, and for that I proc amplify and then quickly take them down with
Magic Arrow
.

Please post offer in item trade before adding me on Bnet
7
OP
mhlg wrote: 1 year ago

I'm not sure why that's needed.
That's because you didn't actually read the post which IS NEEDED for you to understand the point/argument.
7
User avatar

mhlg 1076

Americas PC
ArchSeaWitch wrote: 1 year ago
mhlg wrote: 1 year ago

I'm not sure why that's needed.
That's because you didn't actually read the post which IS NEEDED for you to understand the point/argument.
Solution: Remove current physical bow synergies. The physical bow skills now receive a synergy from
Magic Arrow
that reduces enemy physical resistance for these skills that achieves a maximum damage that is equal to the physical bow synergies that are currently in the game.
Perhaps it's your use of language which is somewhat fragmented. If I read it right you want to remove synergies that Guided and multishot provide each other and
Strafe
, and then have those skills receive synergy from
Magic Arrow
to reduce an enemies physical resistance? The issue is that I can already do all of that just using
Amplify Damage
, and
Bone Break
just increases the effect. There are no physical immunes in the game that I can't quickly take down in single or multiplayer games.

Please post offer in item trade before adding me on Bnet
7
OP
mhlg wrote: 1 year ago
The issue is that I can already do all of that just using
Amplify Damage
, and
Bone Break
just increases the effect.
That's like saying that
Cold Mastery
doesn't need to
Pierce
enemy cold resist because "I can already do all of those things with the skill
Lower Resist
and Sunder".

No... it's not like it... that's virtually WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.

Now I'm going to do you a huge favor ok, I'm going to let you in on the big/significant perception that few people are aware of and that is the Naive and Trinity Realistic Perception that the design of Diablo 2 mostly aligns with. And then we will start arguing from a legitimate stand point....

https://ibb.co/7gT17C9
7
User avatar

mhlg 1076

Americas PC
ArchSeaWitch wrote: 1 year ago
mhlg wrote: 1 year ago
The issue is that I can already do all of that just using
Amplify Damage
, and
Bone Break
just increases the effect.
That's like saying that
Cold Mastery
doesn't need to
Pierce
enemy cold resist because "I can already do all of those things with the skill
Lower Resist
and Sunder".

No... it's not like it... that's virtually WHAT YOU ARE SAYING.



https://ibb.co/7gT17C9
Now I'm going to do you a huge favor ok, I'm going to let you in on the big/significant perception that few people are aware of and that is the Naive and Trinity Realistic Perception that the design of Diablo 2 mostly aligns with. And then we will start arguing from a legitimate stand point....
I have no interest in arguing beyond what I've already stated.

No that is not what I'm virtually saying. What I am actually saying is that I can clear a physical immune mob at nearly the same speeds I can clear a non physical immune mob, and that there is virtually no difference whatsoever.

Please post offer in item trade before adding me on Bnet
7
User avatar

mhlg 1076

Americas PC

Please post offer in item trade before adding me on Bnet
7
OP
post deleted
7
OP
"What I am actually saying is that I can clear a physical immune mob at nearly the same speeds I can clear a non physical immune mob, and that there is virtually no difference whatsoever."


But there is a huge difference between what you can do now vs. what you could do before WITHOUT the physical damage synergies. That's the point you are neglecting here which includes the capability and effectiveness of hero combos. You speak of gimmick items like Atmas Scarab with an inconsistent 2% chance to proc amp damage as if it's "oh so much a part of the amazon identity".

Which side of the critical stat on this item, the 2% chance to proc or the amp damage makes it such a critical element to the physical bowazon identity?

Gag.
7
User avatar

mhlg 1076

Americas PC
ArchSeaWitch wrote: 1 year ago
But there is a huge difference between what you can do now vs. what you could do before WITHOUT the physical damage synergies. That's the point you are neglecting here.
Yes I remember those days back before the introduction of LOD. There was a huge outcry among members about the addition of Immunity. Remember back then a Paladin with
Thorns
was over powered and
Frozen Orb
was nerfed.

If you watched the video then you will see that I've completely overcome the issue. There are no greater physical immune monster mobs in the game then those found in Hell level
Halls of Vaught
.

Please post offer in item trade before adding me on Bnet
7
OP
mhlg wrote: 1 year ago
There was a huge outcry among members about the addition of Immunity.
You forget who is listening to that outcry. Big business Blizzard who listens more to the outcry itself than the reason for which there is a cry going on in the first place.

I'm not talking about pre LOD, I'm talking about the patches to D2R which have added physical bow synergies.
7
User avatar

mhlg 1076

Americas PC
ArchSeaWitch wrote: 1 year ago
mhlg wrote: 1 year ago
There was a huge outcry among members about the addition of Immunity.
You forget who is listening to that outcry. Big business Blizzard who listens more to the outcry itself than the reason for which there is a cry going on in the first place.
I appreciate the confidence but I doubt that Blizzard is listening to anything I have to say. :D

If you've read any posts by me and other members on the forum you will see that most of us are less than satisfied with their handling of the game. The problem as I see it is that this is an old game no doubt brought back as D2r to not only profit a second time from their consumer base, but also to promote the coming of D4, which they in turn expect to succeed D2. I don't think D4 will be a succession of D2, but we won't know that until D4 has been fully explored.

I'm not talking about pre LOD, I'm talking about the patches to D2R which have added physical bow synergies.

I realize that but that was a time before monsters were made immune to anything. I'm still not seeing the benefit of your physical bow synergies idea.

Please post offer in item trade before adding me on Bnet
7
OP
mhlg wrote: 1 year ago
I'm still not seeing the benefit of your physical bow synergies idea.
It's an identity crisis problem. Allow me to use an analogy to drive the nail home ever so simply and clearly my friend...

Take the game Starcraft for instance. All 3 races are not of equal and different identity you see. We know that Terran and Protoss are much more closely related in structure and function than they are to Zerg.

Take a simple and fundamental Pattern at the quantum level of physics. 2 up quarks, 1 down quark.

This Pattern shouldn't simply be a meaningless Pattern to us where we conclude that protoss terran and zerg could all have similar structure and Pattern and it wouldn't matter or hurt the quality of the design.

Same with changing a down quark to an up quark to make all 3 of them up.

This tells us that there is something significant to the Pattern of "two similar, one outstanding" when it comes to the full and equal differing identity of the trinity. You take away the Pattern, then you lose all and any sense of identity orientation potential.

I'm not saying that I know how the Pattern leads to the holy trinity. You just have to embrace the
Conviction
that it does. I give you a Naive and Trinity Realistic example which shows how part of the Amazon identity is inside the Barbarian and part of the Sorceress identity is inside the Amazon.

https://ibb.co/0qRb8nG

The hardest part is seeing how the barbarian identity is part of the sorceress, but once you realize that a similar caliber of
Sacrifice
is going on between the high mana costing
Enchant
which sacrifices the sorceress'
Energy Shield
and the barb's
Sacrifice
of defense down to 0 with
Berserk
your mind then fathoms the whole connection of what is a Naive and Trinity Realistic perception.

TL:DR

Magic Arrow
represents an overarching theme of
Pierce
that distinguishes it and the physical damage branch from the two other branches.
7
User avatar

Teebling 6351Admin

Europe PC
This is a forum about Diablo 2, let's keep it that way in future topics please. Locking for now.

9

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