What is Double TC87? (Hint: It is Insanely Good)

Double TC87, or as I like to call it, TC87+, is the ability to dip twice into the potential of rolling WeapXX/ArmorXX from the 87 Treasure Class loot groups. Before Terror Zones in patch 2.5, this was only available from Elites/standard white mobs in Area 85 Zones as there was not an ability to monster-level scale.

With the release of Terror Zones, I found that many people in the community were unaware that TC87+ extended to Bosses & Super Uniques, now being nested in the maximum Desecrated Treasure class group.

I wanted to bring more transparency and exposure to this to help unpack how powerful this can be for your farming sequences. I have seen a lot of people wondering why they are finding high-end loot from Bosses/Super Uniques at "better-rate"; this is why. Hint: You want to be clvl91+ (character level) to ensure you take full advantage of this.

I released a video this morning that visualizes upgrading and systematically breaking down a deeper look at

Andariel Terrorized.

I hope you find this helpful Sanctuary - cheers.

Timely post. A while back, Pavke, one of those crazy (in a good way) guys that runs something 20,000 times and records all the drops, had also said that TZ Andy is THE best place to farm Griffons now.

His comment: "If you are looking for Griffons best place is TZ Andy. With 500mf it has 1:2000 chance to drop the Griff. Which is 15x times better than current best Pindle."

And after the comment someone hit a Griffon's for their first time in 20 years, they said, running 55 minutes of TZ Andy. Still lucky but 1:2000 for a Griffons surprised a lot of people.

Also saw a lot of comments that Maxroll needed to update their drop calc because it was off for some TZ'd drops - not sure if they have yet.

When in doubt...more loot!

PS: Grats on partner.

Does that mean I could potentially trade my

Zod for a

Tyrael's Might? ^^

lowkey wrote: 1 year ago

Timely post. A while back, Pavke, one of those crazy (in a good way) guys that runs something 20,000 times and records all the drops, had also said that TZ Andy is THE best place to farm Griffons now.

His comment: "If you are looking for Griffons best place is TZ Andy. With 500mf it has 1:2000 chance to drop the Griff. Which is 15x times better than current best Pindle."

And after the comment someone hit a Griffon's for their first time in 20 years, they said, running 55 minutes of TZ Andy. Still lucky but 1:2000 for a Griffons surprised a lot of people.

Also saw a lot of comments that Maxroll needed to update their drop calc because it was off for some TZ'd drops - not sure if they have yet.

This is 100% accurate. TC87+ is significant especially for offline Single Players who can "manipulate" and control the

Terror Zone by modifying their local time on their rig. That combined with Player Count controls is almost absurdly unfair . A few YouTubers have been posting their Griffon drops from

Andariel and this is a

Key reason why.

Teebling wrote: 1 year ago

Nate has been having a lot of success with TZ Andariel recently and singing its praises

More data points the better!

Schnorki wrote: 1 year ago

When in doubt...more loot!

PS: Grats on partner.

Much appreciated my friend - what started as a fun hobby actually amounted to something. Just enjoying it while I can on top of IRL fatherhood/work.

Insomnia wrote: 1 year ago

Does that mean I could potentially trade my

Zod for a

Tyrael's Might? ^^

GET IT

Hi Th3ory,

A little late to the party, but I have a question.

Apologies if I missed this on the video, but does the tc87+ apply to non champion/unique enemies of adequate mlvl in terrorized zones, or is it restricted to super uniques and act bosses?

If so, is mlvl 96 still the magic number? Meaning I should prioritize leveling my lvl 91/92 farmers up to 94 to maximize this game dynamic for normal enemies?

I noted that it was stated that area lvl 85 whites could tap into this dynamic but was confused as it seems that mlvl 96 was the critical point for maximizing return on act bosses and am looking for clarification.

Thanks! I really appreciate any assistance and also enjoy the information you packed into this video and the others I’ve watched.

Rik wrote: 1 year ago

Hi Th3ory,

A little late to the party, but I have a question.

Apologies if I missed this on the video, but does the tc87+ apply to non champion/unique enemies of adequate mlvl in terrorized zones, or is it restricted to super uniques and act bosses?

If so, is mlvl 96 still the magic number? Meaning I should prioritize leveling my lvl 91/92 farmers up to 94 to maximize this game dynamic for normal enemies?

I noted that it was stated that area lvl 85 whites could tap into this dynamic but was confused as it seems that mlvl 96 was the critical point for maximizing return on act bosses and am looking for clarification.

Thanks! I really appreciate any assistance and also enjoy the information you packed into this video and the others I’ve watched.

Hey Rik - worthy question, and I answered this in a few comments underneath the video on YouTube.

TC87+ is available to all monsters, and it was already enabled on Standard White Mobs even in LoD/2.4 as long they were mlvl85 (which, of course, was any white monster in an 85 Area, e.g., Chaos). Most people just overlooked this unbeknownst to them.

Bosses & Super Uniques massively benefited the most, and of course any Elite (Champion/Unique) + White Mob that was previously in a non-85 area and now can scale up.

So for white mobs, the minimum clvl is 83 +2 = 85, which then triggers tc87+ (Act 5 (H) Equip C) for them. Worth calling out, of course, that their NoDrops are far worse than Bosses & Elites/Supers. So while yes, you can technically do TZs at that level, TZs from an experience perspective aren't entirely worth shifting into until about 93-94+. That, combined with Elites being more advantageous to hunt with guaranteed drops, whites still aren't much of the focus overall. But yes, it doesn't hurt that they can, in TZs, drop TC87+ if RnG decides to bless you.

And yes, it can get confusing, so it was a worthy question. Monster Level 96 is for anyone not previously TC87+ and focuses primarily on Bosses & Supers.

Cheers - hope this helped.

So complicated explained.
For whites clvl 83
For Champions clvl92
For Uniques clvl91
Right?

Slypnir wrote: 1 year ago

So complicated explained.
For whites clvl 83
For Champions clvl92
For Uniques clvl91
Right?

Diablo has esoteric information (especially understanding Treasure Class & Loot sequencing) and I always strive to strike the balance of layman & technical. The point of these videos is not to give the topical conclusion with zero evidence. It is about educating the community and sharing the "why" and "how" we get there.

The main point of the video was focused on Bosses & Supers as they gained the most significant benefits of TZs.

Slightly off - see below: Whites & Elites only need to hit mlvl85 to tap into TC87+ ; Bosses & Supers require mlvl96. The main reason I still suggest clvl91+ is that by that point, every single monster you face in TZ Zones, now is enabled for TC87+. So it behooves you, to power level to 91 and if you didn't really care about experience at that point, you could start farming there and then.

- Whites = clvl83 (Whites that already were in 85 Areas do not need to upgrade - they already had access to TC87+)

[Example Non-TZ]: White Mob in Hell

Cold Plains is normally mlvl68 (and would not access TC87+)
[Example TZ]: When clvl83 - White Mob in Hell

Cold Plains is now mlvl85 and officially accesses TC87+

- Champions clvl81 (As I called out in the intro of the video, Elites (Champs + Uniques) already had access to TC87+ specifically those in 85 Zones just like their white mob counterparts)

[Example Non-TZ]: Champion in Hell

Cold Plains is normally mlvl70 or mlvl71 if Berserker (+3mlvl) (and would not access TC87+)
[Example TZ]: When clvl81 - Champion mob in Hell

Cold Plains is now mlvl85 and officially accesses TC87+

- Unique (non-super) clvl80

[Example Non-TZ]: Unique in Hell

Cold Plains is normally mlvl71 (and would not access TC87+)
[Example TZ]: When clvl80 - Champion mob in Hell

Cold Plains is now mlvl85 and officially accesses TC87+

- Bosses & Super Uniques = clvl91

[Example Non-TZ]:

Andariel in Hell is normally mlvl75 (and would not access TC87+)
[Example TZ]: When clvl91 -

Andariel in Hell is now mlvl96 and officially accesses TC87+



Note: I am in the midst of also working on a bespoke Super Unique video and also releasing a Super Unique drop calculator resource. The reason for this is that none of the current drop calculators at this time properly upgrade when said Super Unique is Terrorized. This has to do with logic implementation so I want to not only provide a helpful resource, but bring more attention to what Super Uniques gained the biggest benefit thanks to TZs.

Cheers and hope this helped friend.

THX

That clarifies it for me. Thank you!

Rik wrote: 1 year ago

That clarifies it for me. Thank you!

Slypnir wrote: 1 year ago

THX

No problem guys. I did try to move swiftly on this video and not elongate it too much. Thanks for asking questions - always happy to add color and help if I made things unclear or left out segments.

One last question. If monsters already TC85 like Pit and TZ comes in, is there TC87+ as well for the White mob or not?

Slypnir wrote: 1 year ago

One last question. If monsters already TC85 like Pit and TZ comes in, is there TC87+ as well for the White mob or not?

White Mobs just need to be monster level 85 (not TC85) as those are two different things. Pit is already an 85 Zone making all white mobs Mlvl 85 and Elites/Champs mlvl87-88.

Terrorized Pit won't actually change anything in this instance as they all already had TC87+ since there is not a Super Unique or Boss present.

how does MF calculate for this?
lets say i have a lvl 90 sorc with ~240%mf and lvl 92 barb with ~40% mf looking at that % in video is it better to farm with barb because of that double roll on TC87?

Thanks for the detailed writeup, Th3ory. Travincial TZ... if I understand your writeup, shouldn't that also be a huge source of GG MF with 11 (I think?) Super unique running around, ripe for the picking? Furthermore, they can all be horked for a double, double dip.

I haven't had much luck getting anything godly from Trav TZ in terms of unique drops, and I don't see anyone really talking about it, so I feel like I'm missing something lol.

Thanks!

Th3ory wrote: 1 year ago

I saw your video about Q bug Andy - If I can find

Tal Rashas Armor and

Arachnid Mesh from her, I can be sure, that i didn´t Q bugged her, right?

marek22 wrote: 1 year ago

how does MF calculate for this?
lets say i have a lvl 90 sorc with ~240%mf and lvl 92 barb with ~40% mf looking at that % in video is it better to farm with barb because of that double roll on TC87?

Item Selection (TC Sequencing) happens before Magic Find %. That is, once the item is selected via RnG, then Magic Find ultimately determine what type it rolls into. TC87+ simply increases the RnG probability of the item being selected irrespective of MF%.

DolemiteMofo wrote: 1 year ago

Thanks for the detailed writeup, Th3ory. Travincial TZ... if I understand your writeup, shouldn't that also be a huge source of GG MF with 11 (I think?) Super unique running around, ripe for the picking? Furthermore, they can all be horked for a double, double dip.

I haven't had much luck getting anything godly from Trav TZ in terms of unique drops, and I don't see anyone really talking about it, so I feel like I'm missing something lol.

Thanks!

Council has a special drop table and they are treated a bit differently than your standard Super Unique. They are not your typical Super Unique guaranteed to drop items. They also have NoDrop. It is true that Horking has its own internal NoDrop Calculus that functions as if the game is Players1 and it would have the possibility to double-dip into TC87+. But yes, Trav TZ is very effective for this reason especially when TZd.

Slypnir wrote: 1 year ago

Th3ory wrote: 1 year ago

I saw your video about Q bug Andy - If I can find

Tal Rashas Armor and

Arachnid Mesh from her, I can be sure, that i didn´t Q bugged her, right?

Andy is patched fixed (I have a video dropping this week with a few updates). Doesn't matter whether you bug or not anymore. But FYI,

Arachnid Mesh she was always capable of dropping regardless of TC87+. The issue was her reduced standard MLVL. A few people asked about this in the comments of that video and I helped answer.

Arachnid Mesh is actually only TC63 which is in her standard Andarielq (H) drop table. The issue was her Monster Level was too low to roll it to unique. It has a QLVL (Unique Level of 87) which means that

Andariel has to be mlvl87+.

This confused a lot of people who saw Spiderweb dropping finally. It always was there in her standard loot, but now with the TZ monster level scaling, it made it eligible to roll Unique .

Thanks a lot. I bet I found a triple rare

Spiderweb Sash in the past.

Is

Andariel as Super Unique Monster affected by Player Numbers with no drops?

Is there a difference in P1 and P7
68% no drop to 14% with P7/1